2x12 Twin Destinies

[AJ86]

Just because the show is a "sci-fi character drama," that doesn't make it a good one. Or even a mediocre one.

No one has even used that reasoning to my knowledge. It's a straw man argument.

The writing is shitty.

I disagree.

When you're only real argument is basically "well, it's the only one on the air, ergo it's the best of all the ones on the air," even self-denial isn't going to get you far.

That's not my argument, nor anyone else's as far as I can tell. Another straw man it seems.

 

[Saquist]

Source? Besides, I'm not sure what this has to do with anything I said. I said the show was shifted to Tuesday to die with Caprica, are you suggesting that it wouldn't have done better were it left on Friday nights with a 3 million+ lead-in?

That was according to BrianGate on Gateworld who has sources inside Syfy. He won't give actual names but he's always been illuminating on the inner workings. He says that for some reason BBC America and SyFy still get ridiculously good rating for TNG despite it being 20 years old. So the Sci lead in theory works for other shows but not for SGU.

For instance back in the day it worked for Battlestar Galactica and the Stargate Series

The discussion on why the ratings are so crappy for SGU is on going and some of the things you've brought up have been on discussion carousel for the last year. The even discuss it on Gateworld Home on the articles by Darren Summer.

As if those clowns had anything to do with it. Didn't their site descend into a soap opera, and now there are two sides at each others throats? They couldn't organize a piss up in a brewery let alone the downfall of a TV series!

Apprently not only have they caught the attention of the Producers Brad Write and the other guy to that they've mentioned SGU SUCKS as (implicitly) as part of the reson why the ratings have suffered as well as the way ratings are taken sighting on-line viewers and other tech savvy ways to watchh the show.

There is some wonder as to if the SGU SUCKS campaign may have caught the attention of Syfy as well and part of the reason for the cancelltion. (shrug) But that's fan rumor.

I disagree. It's simply a very niche sub-genre, perhaps too niche. The only other sci-fi character dramas I can think of of late are Caprica, Defying Gravity and Outcasts, and we know how long they lasted. I'd put this down partly to the bulk of sci-fi fandom wanting light, action orientated romps, and those interested in serious drama simply not trusting science fiction on TV to provide it.

The shows writing may not be noticable by most but it's highly contrived at times. SG-1 and SGA had a reliance on tech contrivances but SGU avoids that in favor of drama contrivances. That means characters will frequently step out of character for the sake of the plot or events will be forced to play toward the resolution leading to "happy" coincidences and while the audience can't quite pin that down they do notice how easy resolution are in SGU. The result is that the drama seems cheap.

But that is typical of SGU.
The shouting matches in the beginning were cheap theatrics, the stone adventures on Earth were cheap theatrics including the whole Young Telford sleeping with the same woman. The montages are constantly railed as cheap stalling theatrics, The kino sodes aswell...all as a play to be dramatic but coming across as easy contrived and ultimately boring.

I think they've gotten away from their talent of writing adventure and comedy...

 

[Star Wolf]

But that is typical of SGU.
The shouting matches in the beginning were cheap theatrics, the stone adventures on Earth were cheap theatrics including the whole Young Telford sleeping with the same woman. The montages are constantly railed as cheap stalling theatrics, The kino sodes aswell...all as a play to be dramatic but coming across as easy contrived and ultimately boring.

I think they've gotten away from their talent of writing adventure and comedy...

The most recent "previously on SGU" segment I saw featured Eli screaming at Rush

 

[AJ86]

That was according to BrianGate on Gateworld who has sources inside Syfy. He won't give actual names but he's always been illuminating on the inner workings. He says that for some reason BBC America and SyFy still get ridiculously good rating for TNG despite it being 20 years old. So the Sci lead in theory works for other shows but not for SGU.

Unfortunately Briangate is a proven bullshitter. I lurk on Gateworld and the Syfy forums and he gets caught at it all the time. First there were the rumour he started about MGM canning SGA and not Syfy, despite press releases from both sides refuting that. Then he claimed to have the DVD sales figures through working for Syfy, apparently not aware that the DVD sales have absolutely nothing to do with Syfy. Also, he claimed to have known that SGU would be back in March as early as January, despite claiming in February that he would be back in April. When called out on it, he went back and deleted all mention of it from him and anyone else on the Syfy boards. He simply makes things up I'm afraid and embellishes his position as nothing more than a forum mod, he's certainly no insider. In fact the only supposed 'inside' information he's ever relayed that was irrefutably true was the cancellation of Caprica, which anyone could have guessed. It could turn out he's right of course, but he's not an even remotely reliable source of info, least of all 'inside' info.

For instance back in the day it worked for Battlestar Galactica and the Stargate Series

The discussion on why the ratings are so crappy for SGU is on going and some of the things you've brought up have been on discussion carousel for the last year. The even discuss it on Gateworld Home on the articles by Darren Summer.

I was commenting on the BS assertion from Syfy that leaving the show on Friday wouldn't make any sense as it wasn't a change, yet it clearly would be, as the show would gain a 3 million viewer+ lead-in.

There is some wonder as to if the SGU SUCKS campaign may have caught the attention of Syfy as well and part of the reason for the cancelltion.

There really isn't. There are a few dozen strange individuals on an obscure website. Their influence doesn't reach beyond organizing little groups to down-rate IMDb reviews that favour of SGU, and spamming SGU articles with hate. Clearly they're not the type of person the network is going to take seriously, in fact they're probably not even aware of them. The only reason the writers are aware of them is because they spam Mallozzi's blog.

 

[bullethead]

As if those clowns had anything to do with it. Didn't their site descend into a soap opera, and now there are two sides at each others throats? They couldn't organize a piss up in a brewery let alone the downfall of a TV series!

Apprently not only have they caught the attention of the Producers Brad Write and the other guy to that they've mentioned SGU SUCKS as (implicitly) as part of the reson why the ratings have suffered as well as the way ratings are taken sighting on-line viewers and other tech savvy ways to watchh the show.

There is some wonder as to if the SGU SUCKS campaign may have caught the attention of Syfy as well and part of the reason for the cancelltion. (shrug) But that's fan rumor.

I would think that the terrible ratings would've influenced SyFy's decision to cancel the show, but the general negativity towards the show probably played a big factor. However, having a site called SGU Sucks floating around is pretty good indicator of how well your show is regarded on the internet.

 

[AJ86]

I'd say it's a sad indictment of the state of Stargate fandom if anything. I can't imagine how sad someone would have to be to spend their time frothing at the mouth on the internet about a show they don't even like, which a lot seem to. Though many of them are the trolls that were either laughed or kicked off Gateworld, so it's no surprise. No surprise either that the place split in two and now half of them seem to be at each others throats, including some of the 'founders'. It's a source of comedy if nothing else!

 

[Saquist]

I would think that the terrible ratings would've influenced SyFy's decision to cancel the show, but the general negativity towards the show probably played a big factor. However, having a site called SGU Sucks floating around is pretty good indicator of how well your show is regarded on the internet.

When you think about it the ratings are not that bad. Shows like Sanctuary and Being Human are in the 1.3-1.5 range. That's not a lot of people. But compared when shows on the networks are getting 15- 18 million viewers or wrestling is getting 6 million people...it's looks pathetic.

I think the problem is that projecting these shows ends with the obvious conclusion that the ratings will eventually be untenable in the range of 500-600k. They aren't helping themselves with these awful movies like Gatoroid vs Sharkazoid. The network is getting a stigma for low quality Sci Fi despite the tag line.

I'd say it's a sad indictment of the state of Stargate fandom if anything. I can't imagine how sad someone would have to be to spend their time frothing at the mouth on the internet about a show they don't even like, which a lot seem to. Though many of them are the trolls that were either laughed or kicked off Gateworld, so it's no surprise. No surprise either that the place split in two and now half of them seem to be at each others throats, including some of the 'founders'. It's a source of comedy if nothing else!

As with all things of the fanatics...you either are focused on the negative or the positive...there is no middle ground. Gateworld has it's own issues and it's oddly reflective of what stargate is going through right now. It's all collapsing. Gateworld prefers to be aggressively positive instead of negative. I've never seen this sort of internal collapse. It's fascinating and soon they'll have nothing to talk about but the past...just like star trek but it starts with the producers.

That was according to BrianGate on Gateworld who has sources inside Syfy. He won't give actual names but he's always been illuminating on the inner workings. He says that for some reason BBC America and SyFy still get ridiculously good rating for TNG despite it being 20 years old. So the Sci lead in theory works for other shows but not for SGU.

Unfortunately Briangate is a proven bullshitter. I lurk on Gateworld and the Syfy forums and he gets caught at it all the time. First there were the rumour he started about MGM canning SGA and not Syfy, despite press releases from both sides refuting that. Then he claimed to have the DVD sales figures through working for Syfy, apparently not aware that the DVD sales have absolutely nothing to do with Syfy. Also, he claimed to have known that SGU would be back in March as early as January, despite claiming in February that he would be back in April. When called out on it, he went back and deleted all mention of it from him and anyone else on the Syfy boards. He simply makes things up I'm afraid and embellishes his position as nothing more than a forum mod, he's certainly no insider. In fact the only supposed 'inside' information he's ever relayed that was irrefutably true was the cancellation of Caprica, which anyone could have guessed. It could turn out he's right of course, but he's not an even remotely reliable source of info, least of all 'inside' info.

For instance back in the day it worked for Battlestar Galactica and the Stargate Series

The discussion on why the ratings are so crappy for SGU is on going and some of the things you've brought up have been on discussion carousel for the last year. The even discuss it on Gateworld Home on the articles by Darren Summer.

I was commenting on the BS assertion from Syfy that leaving the show on Friday wouldn't make any sense as it wasn't a change, yet it clearly would be, as the show would gain a 3 million viewer+ lead-in.

There is some wonder as to if the SGU SUCKS campaign may have caught the attention of Syfy as well and part of the reason for the cancelltion.

There really isn't. There are a few dozen strange individuals on an obscure website. Their influence doesn't reach beyond organizing little groups to down-rate IMDb reviews that favour of SGU, and spamming SGU articles with hate. Clearly they're not the type of person the network is going to take seriously, in fact they're probably not even aware of them. The only reason the writers are aware of them is because they spam Mallozzi's blog.

Noted:

Well they definitely had Brad Wright's attention he mentioned them as part of the cause on his blog. So it' not inconceivable that Syfy got wind of it too and then the fans made there case clear at the first convention that they didn't like the series and it didn't help that Micahel Shanks agreed with them on the shows apparent contrivances. It tallies up in the end.

Anyone in the industry of entertainment will tell you that word of mouth is a strong motivator. The rule is for every negative experience a person tells 20 people but negative catches on faster than popularity and one persons negative experience can and does prevent others in social groups from even considering the venue.

 

[AJ86]

As with all things of the fanatics...you either are focused on the negative or the positive...there is no middle ground. Gateworld has it's own issues and it's oddly reflective of what stargate is going through right now. It's all collapsing. Gateworld prefers to be aggressively positive instead of negative. I've never seen this sort of internal collapse. It's fascinating and soon they'll have nothing to talk about but the past...just like star trek but it starts with the producers.

I'm not a fanatic, I agree Gateworld has it's problems, most notably the over zealous moderation, but they don't really compare to the debacle on that other site, and it's hardly collapsing either. The sites busiest ever day was during SGU's run I believe. And there are some nice, normal people on SGUS of course, though from what I've seen they generally get drowned out by the idiots.

 

[Saquist]

As with all things of the fanatics...you either are focused on the negative or the positive...there is no middle ground. Gateworld has it's own issues and it's oddly reflective of what stargate is going through right now. It's all collapsing. Gateworld prefers to be aggressively positive instead of negative. I've never seen this sort of internal collapse. It's fascinating and soon they'll have nothing to talk about but the past...just like star trek but it starts with the producers.

I'm not a fanatic, I agree Gateworld has it's problems, most notably the over zealous moderation, but they don't really compare to the debacle on that other site, and it's hardly collapsing either. The sites busiest ever day was during SGU's run I believe. And there are some nice, normal people on SGUS of course, though from what I've seen they generally get drowned out by the idiots.

We'll see...Darren Summer was talking about shutting down after all the negativity that he apparently didn't like and I wonder how the end of the franchise will hit the site...what's going for it is the other genre's it allows but they're nowhere as busy as the Gate sections.

Also interesting is the most ever vistors to the site was the day after Atlantis' final episode according to the wiki.

Even worse:
I can't find any editorials on this show past season 1 Season. It's been ignored. The only ones paying attention are the fans.

 

[AJ86]

We'll see...Darren Summer was talking about shutting down after all the negativity that he apparently didn't like and I wonder how the end of the franchise will hit the site...what's going for it is the other genre's it allows but they're nowhere as busy as the Gate sections.

Really? Never heard that before. Is there a source for that, or is it just a rumour on you-know-where? I can't imagine that being true but who knows, he was asking the community recently what other shows people want Gateworld to report on after SGU ends and if/when there's no new Stargate on the horizon. I haven't seen any indication he wants to shut the place down, I suspect the forum at least pays for itself, and then some.

Also interesting is the most ever vistors to the site was the day after Atlantis' final episode according to the wiki.

Most users ever online was 2,081, April 3rd, 2010 at 07:27 PM.

Even worse:
I can't find any editorials on this show past season 1 Season. It's been ignored. The only ones paying attention are the fans.

They do a podcast for each SGU episode. I'm not sure what you mean by editorials, they still do the 'full coverage' thing they've always done, with transcripts, screencaps, spoilers and quotes etc. I don't remember them ever doing any more. Could you link to one of the past editorials you mention?

 

[bullethead]

Even worse:
I can't find any editorials on this show past season 1 Season. It's been ignored. The only ones paying attention are the fans.

They do a podcast for each SGU episode. I'm not sure what you mean by editorials, they still do the 'full coverage' thing they've always done, with transcripts, screencaps, spoilers and quotes etc. I don't remember them ever doing any more. Could you link to one of the past editorials you mention?

I think he's talking about editorials from newspaper sites like the Chicago Herald and stuff like that. The only non-Gateworld site that still regularly covers SGU is io9 AFAIK.

 

[Saquist]

Really? Never heard that before. Is there a source for that, or is it just a rumour on you-know-where? I can't imagine that being true but who knows, he was asking the community recently what other shows people want Gateworld to report on after SGU ends and if/when there's no new Stargate on the horizon. I haven't seen any indication he wants to shut the place down, I suspect the forum at least pays for itself, and then some.

His words on Gateworld Forum during the 4 month break between Season One and Two. It was a formal announcement, the same one he announced that the Forum would be dividing Gateworld into specific sections to separate the SGU lovers and the Atlantis lovers that seemed to be clashing to the point where he said he was depressed and thinking about shutting down the site because of all the negativity instead he decided to zealous remove or separate the negativity from the site.

It's an extremely bias site. When you said that the mods were even in disagreement, I knew you were right because I tested personally. It's not the worse site I've ever been to but there are very mild people that were feeling the censor bug enough to know that Gateworld had just dictated to them how to be a fan. So...on Gateworld you're allowed to be a gusher...but not a hater.

Also interesting is the most ever vistors to the site was the day after Atlantis' final episode according to the wiki.

Most users ever online was 2,081, April 3rd, 2010 at 07:27 PM.

They do a podcast for each SGU episode. I'm not sure what you mean by editorials, they still do the 'full coverage' thing they've always done, with transcripts, screencaps, spoilers and quotes etc. I don't remember them ever doing any more. Could you link to one of the past editorials you mention?

By gate world yes, but the more official outlets that originally reviewed SGU like the Washington Post and others have not made further comment on the series even after it's cancellation. It sounds like M&M bought the positive press that the show got originally or maybe they "invited them" and now...what...they showed interest in this show for a brief period of time and now...just have nothing to say? Isn't that interesting?

 

[AJ86]

It's an extremely bias site. When you said that the mods were even in disagreement, I knew you were right because I tested personally. It's not the worse site I've ever been to but there are very mild people that were feeling the censor bug enough to know that Gateworld had just dictated to them how to be a fan. So...on Gateworld you're allowed to be a gusher...but not a hater.

I don't necessarily think it's unfair that they ban 'haters', I mean if you're going on the board of a show you don't like and/or don't watch to slam it, then chances are you're just there to troll. I do agree however that in trying to stop the trolling and baiting that they have gone too far, and because genuine critique is difficult to separate baiting they have ended up stifling frank discussion somewhat.

By gate world yes, but the more official outlets that originally reviewed SGU like the Washington Post and others have not made further comment on the series even after it's cancellation. It sounds like M&M bought the positive press that the show got originally or maybe they "invited them" and now...what...they showed interest in this show for a brief period of time and now...just have nothing to say? Isn't that interesting?

It got more high profile press in the beginning because it was new. Once it was obvious the show wasn't going to be a hit the mainstream sites faded away. It's to be expected, they cater to the mainstream, and SGU simply wasn't. The more genre-specific sites have kept up their articles and reviews though, Crave Online, io9, TV Squad, TVOvermind etc.

 

[Sindatur]

When you're only real argument is basically "well, it's the only one on the air, ergo it's the best of all the ones on the air," even self-denial isn't going to get you far.

That's not my argument, nor anyone else's as far as I can tell. Another straw man it seems.

Eh...Guilty as charged, I watch SGU, because there's nothing else on, and I keep hoping it will grab me. I won't go so far as to say the writing sucks, but, the show doesn't grab me. I missed Twin Destinies (Wasn't put up on on Demand, until this morning, so, watching it now). This week's episode, was actually the first time, I actually enjoyed watching the episode, and wasn't trying to convince myself I should be enjoying it (maybe because it's been cancelled, so my expectations have finally been lowered?)

 

[Mr. Adventure]

It's an extremely bias site.

"Biased"...sorry, it's a pet peeve.

 

[AJ86]

When you're only real argument is basically "well, it's the only one on the air, ergo it's the best of all the ones on the air," even self-denial isn't going to get you far.

That's not my argument, nor anyone else's as far as I can tell. Another straw man it seems.

Eh...Guilty as charged, I watch SGU, because there's nothing else on, and I keep hoping it will grab me. I won't go so far as to say the writing sucks, but, the show doesn't grab me. I missed Twin Destinies (Wasn't put up on on Demand, until this morning, so, watching it now). This week's episode, was actually the first time, I actually enjoyed watching the episode, and wasn't trying to convince myself I should be enjoying it (maybe because it's been cancelled, so my expectations have finally been lowered?)

But would you be telling people that SGU was the best sci-fi character drama on TV, just because it's the only one? Because I think that was his argument.

 

[Sindatur]

That's not my argument, nor anyone else's as far as I can tell. Another straw man it seems.

Eh...Guilty as charged, I watch SGU, because there's nothing else on, and I keep hoping it will grab me. I won't go so far as to say the writing sucks, but, the show doesn't grab me. I missed Twin Destinies (Wasn't put up on on Demand, until this morning, so, watching it now). This week's episode, was actually the first time, I actually enjoyed watching the episode, and wasn't trying to convince myself I should be enjoying it (maybe because it's been cancelled, so my expectations have finally been lowered?)

But would you be telling people that SGU was the best sci-fi character drama on TV, just because it's the only one? Because I think that was his argument.

Well, if it is the only one on, it certainly is the best one on, though that's followed by a caveat that the bar isn't set very high. Best one on, has no relationship to actually being great nor to best one ever.

 

[AJ86]

I agree with the reasoning of course, my point is that he was seemingly accusing people of using that logic, while I don't think anyone really has, even if some agree with it. I personally don't think it's the only sci-fi character drama around, and I do think it's high-quality, but that's just me.

 

[Sindatur]

I can't nail down why it hasn't grabbed me. The basic premise suggests I should love it.

Ancient Ship with advanced Technology takes a group of people on a Magical Mystery Tour of the Universe, there's Aliens with more than just forehead ridges to distinguish them, and a Stargate. How could that not be great?

 

[JarodRussell]

Haven't watched the episode yet. This sounds pretty messed up.

For you maybe but I don't enjoy watching porn. I think it's disgusting and offensive to put such intimate acts up for viewing but then not everyone is a Christian. I appreciate the mental effect and influence it has.

If you can't distinguish between a pertinent sex scene in a TV show and pornography then you have some serious problems.

By "mental effect and influence it has" you mean your hard-on?