2x12 Twin Destinies

[The Wormhole]

So, my question about this episode, and maybe I missed it earlier in the thread... When Telford goes through the gate, it seems he gets sent to Earth, but a few hours back through time. So, shouldn't he have smacked pretty solidly into the iris barricading the gate? Does the SGC no longer shut that thing whenever an incoming wormhole pops open? He said they couldn't send a radio signal through, so I imagine they were going to allow it based on what seemed like a lot of tight scheduling. But if the wormhole opened hours earlier than it was supposed to...

Maybe I'm thinking in circles and I should just drop it. heh.

I don't think Telford was sent through time. In fact, I don't think there was any time travel in the episode. The attempt to dial Earth caused a duplicate Destiny to be created. When other Rush fled his Destiny and detected Destiny Prime he assumed to have travelled through time, but really just met with a duplicate of his ship.

Spoiler: future episode

Of course, we're going to learn that time travel played a part with the other versions of the rest of the Destiny crew...

 

[Kaijima]

A confidence statement.

"You keep using that word, but I do not think it means what you think it means."

All I'll interject on this little donnybrook is that a statement of "confidence" would be if one said "I am sure that same sex relationships will hurt no one." On the other hand "same sex relationships hurt no one, and preventing them accomplishes nothing" is a factual assertion. Responding to it with "God says it is an abomination" is in fact, the statement of confidence that the authority being referred to is correct. To be fair, that makes sense, considering it is a matter of religion, and faith.

That's the trick though, isn't it? If God says A is A, then faith requires the believer to accept that A is A no matter if A is in every way observably demonstrated to in fact, be C.

It's cool if you need a way to be right no matter what anyone else in the world could ever possibly demonstrate or explain.

Doesn't accomplish much in rational debate, though. Bit of a downer there.

 

[USS Kongo]

The last new episodes of SG:U are running already? Drat! Forgot about this. Well, there's always Hulu....

Sean

 

[Brikar99]

So, my question about this episode, and maybe I missed it earlier in the thread... When Telford goes through the gate, it seems he gets sent to Earth, but a few hours back through time. So, shouldn't he have smacked pretty solidly into the iris barricading the gate? Does the SGC no longer shut that thing whenever an incoming wormhole pops open? He said they couldn't send a radio signal through, so I imagine they were going to allow it based on what seemed like a lot of tight scheduling. But if the wormhole opened hours earlier than it was supposed to...

Maybe I'm thinking in circles and I should just drop it. heh.

I don't think Telford was sent through time. In fact, I don't think there was any time travel in the episode. The attempt to dial Earth caused a duplicate Destiny to be created. When other Rush fled his Destiny and detected Destiny Prime he assumed to have travelled through time, but really just met with a duplicate of his ship.

Spoiler: future episode

Of course, we're going to learn that time travel played a part with the other versions of the rest of the Destiny crew...

But then how would the duplicate be 12 hours behind them or whatever it was?

 

[Star Wolf]

So, my question about this episode, and maybe I missed it earlier in the thread... When Telford goes through the gate, it seems he gets sent to Earth, but a few hours back through time. So, shouldn't he have smacked pretty solidly into the iris barricading the gate? Does the SGC no longer shut that thing whenever an incoming wormhole pops open? He said they couldn't send a radio signal through, so I imagine they were going to allow it based on what seemed like a lot of tight scheduling. But if the wormhole opened hours earlier than it was supposed to...

Maybe I'm thinking in circles and I should just drop it. heh.

My mind is fresh I just saw it. Eli stoned ahead to discuss the plan and the SGC would see it was a nine chevron address dialing them up. They had no way of knowing exactly when Destiny would enter a star so schedules with military precision could not be coordinated.

 

[Tom]

So, my question about this episode, and maybe I missed it earlier in the thread... When Telford goes through the gate, it seems he gets sent to Earth, but a few hours back through time. So, shouldn't he have smacked pretty solidly into the iris barricading the gate? Does the SGC no longer shut that thing whenever an incoming wormhole pops open? He said they couldn't send a radio signal through, so I imagine they were going to allow it based on what seemed like a lot of tight scheduling. But if the wormhole opened hours earlier than it was supposed to...

Maybe I'm thinking in circles and I should just drop it. heh.

My mind is fresh I just saw it. Eli stoned ahead to discuss the plan and the SGC would see it was a nine chevron address dialing them up. They had no way of knowing exactly when Destiny would enter a star so schedules with military precision could not be coordinated.

Just watched it again its pretty simple.

- They stoned Earth to tell them about what time they would be dialing earth, so the SGC was waiting for them. (Hence the Lee cameo) Also Telford said that Eli warned them. Still if Telford was unscheduled (back in time) they probably know its destiny by the ninth chervon or something.

- Telford did go back in time, when Rush stoned Earth they said that Telford had been there hours ago. So the way i see it there was was progresive time travel going on:

*The Destiny and Rush go back 12 hours or so.
*Telford go back to Earth about 16 or so hours.
*The crew possiblly goes way back in time, see 2x17

- Destiny did not duplicate, it was a 12 hours or so older version of our Destiny. When our Destiny came up to the cripped Destiny it had been hanging near the the star for a while, they were just lucky to get to it before it was destroyed.

 

[The Wormhole]

So, my question about this episode, and maybe I missed it earlier in the thread... When Telford goes through the gate, it seems he gets sent to Earth, but a few hours back through time. So, shouldn't he have smacked pretty solidly into the iris barricading the gate? Does the SGC no longer shut that thing whenever an incoming wormhole pops open? He said they couldn't send a radio signal through, so I imagine they were going to allow it based on what seemed like a lot of tight scheduling. But if the wormhole opened hours earlier than it was supposed to...

Maybe I'm thinking in circles and I should just drop it. heh.

I don't think Telford was sent through time. In fact, I don't think there was any time travel in the episode. The attempt to dial Earth caused a duplicate Destiny to be created. When other Rush fled his Destiny and detected Destiny Prime he assumed to have travelled through time, but really just met with a duplicate of his ship.

Spoiler: future episode

Of course, we're going to learn that time travel played a part with the other versions of the rest of the Destiny crew...

But then how would the duplicate be 12 hours behind them or whatever it was?

You know, I actually forgot that part. Damn, trying to figure this episode is pretty confusing.

 

[David cgc]

Okay, so, near as I can tell, here's what happened.

Original timeline, the Destiny arrives, all the stuff we saw in Rush's flashback happens. As the stargate is connected with Earth, a temporal whatsit happens, and sends the entire ship back in time twelve hours. Telford goes through, the wormhole starts to destablizes and hops to another gate or opens up into space or whatever it ended up doing. Rush is the only one who's left behind, and he ends up abandoning ship in the shuttle and intercepting the Destiny when it originally arrived in-system.

The only thing is that it requires that, for the twelve hours prior to the Destiny picking up future-Rush, no one stoned home. But if Dr. Lee and the folks back home were all satisfied with Eli's math and knew they'd make the attempt as soon as they reached a suitable star, there really wouldn't have been a reason to. We've seen that they don't have someone swapped all the damn time, and things would be busy on the ship trying to get prepped to leave, anyway.

 

[Brent]

What was the whole deal about Telford stoning with himself though? I never got that, when did he do that?

 

[AJ86]

He didn't, that's just what he wanted to do. Our Telford is dead, future Telford is alive on Earth.

 

[Star Wolf]

What was the whole deal about Telford stoning with himself though? I never got that, when did he do that?

He didn't, it was a joke about Telford fighting for command of Destiny by stoning in as himself I think.

 

[OsmiumJohnnycake]

I liked this episode a lot. I'm fine with the fact that some of the crew might suspect Rush was behind the thing going south (especially Telford), but I hope that it doesn't turn out to be the case. Rush got his 10 + 2 with a moving speech and that should have been enough for him. The only possible explanation for him sabotaging it would be that he didn't want any of the 10 + 2 to view it as a viable option if things got rough down the line. Someone (I forget who) says near the end of the episode that Rush doesn't seem like a "go down with the ship" guy but that's exactly what he is in the case of this particular ship.

When the future Rush is brought on board the Destiny, he freaks out and goes for Telford, yelling that he tried to kill everyone, so for the rest of the episode I was expecting some reveal that Telford had sabotaged it. So was Rush just angry about Telford's (brief and ultimately inconsequential) rebuttal to Rush's "destiny" speech? If so, his reaction was pretty extreme.

 

[Brikar99]

What was the whole deal about Telford stoning with himself though? I never got that, when did he do that?

He didn't, it was a joke about Telford fighting for command of Destiny by stoning in as himself I think.

I wish they hadn't killed one of the Telfords and then the next episode he tried that and it totally screwed him up.

 

[David cgc]

When the future Rush is brought on board the Destiny, he freaks out and goes for Telford, yelling that he tried to kill everyone, so for the rest of the episode I was expecting some reveal that Telford had sabotaged it. So was Rush just angry about Telford's (brief and ultimately inconsequential) rebuttal to Rush's "destiny" speech? If so, his reaction was pretty extreme.

There's also the fact that Telford was the only one to make it to Earth. In Rush's state, he could've seen that as him just wanting to get home, and not caring what happened to everyone else.

 

[Saquist]

A confidence statement.

"You keep using that word, but I do not think it means what you think it means."

All I'll interject on this little donnybrook is that a statement of "confidence" would be if one said "I am sure that same sex relationships will hurt no one." On the other hand "same sex relationships hurt no one, and preventing them accomplishes nothing" is a factual assertion. Responding to it with "God says it is an abomination" is in fact, the statement of confidence that the authority being referred to is correct. To be fair, that makes sense, considering it is a matter of religion, and faith.

A confidence statement is usually an imperative that is being presented in a debate with out evidence but is presumed to be factual...

It's such a blatantly absurd position it's not even worth the effort to discredit.

...They usually are opinions such as this that despite the fact that significant effort has been made contrary to his statement, despite the rational evidence to the contrary the author is attempting fashion a conclusion seemingly through reason. A good example is many closing arguments in court. It's essentially a bold assertion of truth without supporting evidence.

That's the trick though, isn't it? If God says A is A, then faith requires the believer to accept that A is A no matter if A is in every way observably demonstrated to in fact, be C.

A lot of misinformed atheist and theist do believe that but the Biblical point of view and Definition of faith is presented at Hebrews 11:1: "Faith is the assured expectation of things hoped for, the evident demonstration of realities though not beheld."

This scripture is proof that the Christian method as presented by the bible isn't a bout of circular reasoning. We're given demonstrations and testimony of past of event as a reminders of events that have occurred and promises for the future. Our faith lies in those previous demonstrations...among other things.

It's cool if you need a way to be right no matter what anyone else in the world could ever possibly demonstrate or explain.

Doesn't accomplish much in rational debate, though. Bit of a downer there.

To date, I've seen no one offer a logical assertion to the source information on pornography and logically the acts do fit the description of pornographic and explicit but not fitting the definition of obscene. It's your call on whether you wish to throw yourself vs my spiritual opinion by the facts are still standing there un-entertained and unassailed thus far.

Why are people seriously arguing with someone who claims SGU is pornographic? It's such a blatantly absurd position it's not even worth the effort to discredit.

Reasoning through an appeal to emotion. Appeal to ridicule, an informal fallacy not because it's your opinion but because of manner in which it is presented.

For instance the wiki recognizes: In the second half of the 20th century, pornography evolved into the men's magazines such as Playboy and Modern Man of the 1950s.~http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pornographic_magazine

Don't lie to yourself just on my behalf. I appreciate that you believe what you believe but this is a disagreement that is both evident to all kinds of contrary facts and argued in all sort forums for all sorts of reasons. To my knowledge Playboy only uses nudity YET this article says it and others are properly classified as pornography. That is more than a casual implication.


AJ86

True, it's difficult to have a rational debate with someone who's only point of reference for morality or reason is an inherently immoral and irrational bronze-age scripture.

Debate is about logic.
The above is an appeal to ridicule and is not part of rational debate. Emotion is not the method of making a rational conclusion but does happen to be the preferred method of reasonings of mobs everywhere.

His last few comments have proven that the only points he'll actually contest are the ones he can reduce to something subjective, and simply 'his own opinion'. The problem of course being that these opinions stem from scripture, but when you question his belief in it, he either ignores obvious requests for the supposed 'good reasons' behind it, or else runs away from questions about his belief citing "aggressive lack of acuity", though only when it suits, of course.

Firstly. I have no obligation to entertain and assist your prejudices and nefarious agendas. I didn't confront you. You engaged me.

Secondly, (concerning your prejudices) Your lack of acuity is self evident. For instance I tell you one thing about my beliefs and you present a strawman miss-interpretation of those beliefs because of the difficulty of creating a direct counter argument: Aside from the fact that you seem to wish to argue opinion vs opinion and or confidence statements, such as (that's just not good enough) or (that doesn't justify) despite the presence of precedent and source materiel that begs or implies to differ.

I'm done.

You were "done" a long time ago. I heard and listened to your argument and considered all the rational points (few as they were) on the subject of pornographic. You abandoned th source material.

Objectively the source says "from pornographic material" there is obscene or (hardcore and soft-core pornography) allowing for lesser forms. Further the actual definition also allows for the use of the word. Since sexual behavior can be depicted with cloths on or off and can induce arousal then the definition of pornographic fits. All of your conclusion to contrary are wrong, the definition does support the use of the word pornographic. Your assertion that it is not pornographic to you is more accurate and a far more logical statement but your entire argument reduced definition to your opinion.

 

[The Wormhole]

I liked this episode a lot. I'm fine with the fact that some of the crew might suspect Rush was behind the thing going south (especially Telford), but I hope that it doesn't turn out to be the case.

Thing is, even Rush suspected that Other Rush sabotaged things, and when he questioned Other Rush, Other Rush did not deny anything, which does imply Other Rush sabotaged Other Destiny's attempt to dial Earth.

 

[Saquist]

I don't think he sabotaged the attempt.
I think it's a nice writing ploy to keep that a mystery.

 

[The Wormhole]

The only reason I can think of for asking a duplicate of myself if he sabotaged something is if I were planning to sabotage the same thing. Therefore, logically if Rush asked Other Rush what he did, it's because Rush himself was planning something, something which Other Rush clearly went ahead and did.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

In any case, I thought the whole point of Rush's recent character development was that he would be less of a shady bastard. Whatever he tried to do, obviously his intention wasn't to kill everyone. But given how dangerous the situation was--especially according to him--any attempt to muck up the process could've had unpredictable consequences. Maybe he didn't mean to kill all those people, but he had to have known it was a strong possibility considering the variables involved. And I just don't see why he'd have done that at this point.

If they're planning to set up more "Rush is a shady bastard" storylines with this... yawn.

 

[OsmiumJohnnycake]

Thing is, even Rush suspected that Other Rush sabotaged things, and when he questioned Other Rush, Other Rush did not deny anything, which does imply Other Rush sabotaged Other Destiny's attempt to dial Earth.

Well Other Rush didn't deny anything because Rush didn't ask, "Did you do something to make the whole thing go south." Rush asked him what really happpened and Other Rush said something like "Exactly what I said happened," which suggests he did nothing wrong. That's how I read it.

As for Rush suspecting himself, maybe it's akin to a recovering alcoholic meeting a future version of himself who has been accused of slipping - yeah, based on the past he's going to think there's a chance he screwed up and is hiding it from others. But in this episode we're presented with a Rush who went about things the right way (making his case to the people) and getting what he wanted, so I still don't see why he'd screw all those other people over out of spite when he had the 10 + 2 he needed.

Unless he has some master plan which involved creating the time travel scenario and sending all those other people somewhere else just so he could get spare parts. I mean that's possible but I'm hoping that's not the case.