Is it ok to have sex with holograms?

[infinix]

You may find out the guy screwing a hologram is the most well adjusted guy in the office/neighborhood.

Oh, believe me, I have no problem with a person screwing a hologram. NONE whatsoever. There is really no difference between screwing your hologram and paying for a hooker. I wouldn't do it myself, but I have no problem with other people doing it.

My premise was that this person created holograms for the sole purpose of raping those holograms.

 

[BillJ]

Would anyone here feel just a bit bothered if someone was using and abusing a simulated version of them in a holodeck? Think about it.

As long as their not posting my virtual self's antics in public forums... what's the big deal?

 

[scotpens]

We are only allowed to be married to one person at a time right now. That's also the gov't telling us what we can't or can't do in our own homes.

It’s perfectly legal for a man to share a household with ten women, or for a woman to do the same with ten men. You just can’t call it marriage, because marriage is defined and regulated by law.

. . . the person who got used to raping hologram people will surely have issues interacting with real people in a normal sense. True, Nobody would care if he/she lives out in the middle of nowhere and has a job that doesn't require normal human interaction. But I'm pretty sure you don't want either person (toaster screwing or hologram raping) working with you or living next to you.

How much do you know about the private lives and fetishes of your neighbors and co-workers? For all you know, that clean-cut Ozzie and Harriet couple next door might belong to a BDSM club where they go to get the shit whipped out of them.

If people keep their private behavior private, how would I know and why should I care? Don’t ask, don’t tell!

 

[sonak]

Nothing. What consenting adults do in private — what movies they watch, what books they read, what they do for recreation — is nobody else’s business.

That's not entirely true, is it? People get arrested for child pornography all the time. And don't tell me its legal to smoke pot or shoot crack if you do it in private.

But let's leave the extreme cases out for now. Here is a scenario. A man rapes a woman. This is the first time he ever raped a woman and he is caught. If the man is found to have porn movies with rape themes in his possession, it can be used by the prosecutor to show a pattern of behavior that this person is maladjusted for society and deserves to be locked up for a long time.

The point here is that what you do in the privacy of your own home will tend to leak into every other aspect of your life. If you are addicted to porn, there is a good chance you will be caught watching porn at work. If you are addicted to gambling, you will eventually hurt somebody, whether it be you or your family. Normal human beings tend to not be very good at completely compartmentalizing different aspects of their lives.

Shit. There goes my 1970s soft-porn fantasy, “Swinging Tennis Chicks.”

hmm... that WOULD be an interesting porn. Think what they can do with the rackets.

your philosophy has no theoretical endpoint. If ANYTHING you do entertainment-wise in the privacy of your own home that doesn't harm someone else "will eventually start to influence real life" than society is justified in regulating personal behavior in all sorts of creepy ways.




Maybe you support banning R-rated movies altogether? Maybe we shouldn't be allowed to have certain books in the library, etc.


This is why the idea of "victimless crimes" is Big Brother-ish nonsense.



either holograms are sentient life-forms or they're not. If they're roughly equivalent to video game characters, then there's no reason for the controlling, authoritarian restrictions you mention.


sorry, this is a response to infinix's posts.


I suck at the quote function as well as other stuff.

 

[scotpens]

Nothing. What consenting adults do in private — what movies they watch, what books they read, what they do for recreation — is nobody else’s business.

That's not entirely true, is it? People get arrested for child pornography all the time.

Because child pornography involves, and harms, other parties besides consenting adults — namely children, who are incapable of consent.

And don't tell me its legal to smoke pot or shoot crack if you do it in private.

But it should be.

But let's leave the extreme cases out for now. Here is a scenario. A man rapes a woman. This is the first time he ever raped a woman and he is caught. If the man is found to have porn movies with rape themes in his possession, it can be used by the prosecutor to show a pattern of behavior that this person is maladjusted for society and deserves to be locked up for a long time.

Post hoc, ergo propter hoc. Just because a zealous prosecutor can do it doesn’t make it right. It’s like saying 80 percent of heroin addicts were breast-fed as infants; therefore, mother’s milk leads to heroin addiction.

The point here is that what you do in the privacy of your own home will tend to leak into every other aspect of your life. If you are addicted to porn, there is a good chance you will be caught watching porn at work. If you are addicted to gambling, you will eventually hurt somebody, whether it be you or your family.

I seriously question the entire concept of “porn addiction” or “gambling addiction.”

Normal human beings tend to not be very good at completely compartmentalizing different aspects of their lives.

According to which acknowledged experts in human psychology and sociology? Normal adults can distinguish between fantasy and reality. Full stop, end of story.

But now we’re straying into Miscellaneous and TNZ territory here.

 

[infinix]

your philosophy has no theoretical endpoint. If ANYTHING you do entertainment-wise in the privacy of your own home that doesn't harm someone else "will eventually start to influence real life" than society is justified in regulating personal behavior in all sorts of creepy ways.

Maybe you support banning R-rated movies altogether? Maybe we shouldn't be allowed to have certain books in the library, etc.

This is why the idea of "victimless crimes" is Big Brother-ish nonsense.

either holograms are sentient life-forms or they're not. If they're roughly equivalent to video game characters, then there's no reason for the controlling, authoritarian restrictions you mention.

sorry, this is a response to infinix's posts.

I suck at the quote function as well as other stuff.

My original premise is very clear cut. I don't think there should be regulation on having sex with holograms. No problems there.

However, there should be regulations on creating a hologram for the sole purpose of fulfilling a person's rape/torture/murder fantasies. Whether the hologram is sentient or not. does not matter in the least. It is unhealthy for a person to live out such cases of fantasy in any way, shape, or form.

Recall the kid that killed 30+ people on the Virginia Tech campus a few years back. That kid showed warning signs all over the place, but nobody dealt with it because "We must respect his privacy."

Here is another scenario. If a poster on this board started to write fantasy stories about how he or she raped and killed someone else, how should the Mods react? I would sure hope the moderators will attempt to contact somebody and point out that someone within this community is exhibiting troublesome behavior.

This isn't a slippery slope for me. The line in the sand is clear. When a person starts to fantasize about rape/torture/murder, that person needs help. Not that they should be locked up, but they certainly need psychiatric helps.

Holograms takes fantasy to a level where it will be nearly impossible to differentiate between reality and fantasy. Holograms would allow a person to completely live out his/her fantasy, and that is a very dangerous thing when the person is maladjusted. And in my book, when a person starts to fantasize about rape/torture/murder, that person is maladjusted.

This is not about S&M, or wife swapping or even auto-erotic asphyxiation. This is very specifically about rape/torture/murder.

 

[scotpens]

When a person starts to fantasize about rape/torture/murder, that person needs help. Not that they should be locked up, but they certainly need psychiatric helps.

I have fantasies about raping and torturing Betty Boop. Or sometimes Judy Jetson. Do I need to see a shrink?

 

[infinix]

Normal adults can distinguish between fantasy and reality. Full stop, end of story.

We are still talking about holograms here, right? For all intents and purposes, especially from what is shown to us in the Trek universe, its impossible to tell the difference between hologram and reality. We have a few episodes in TNG and DS9 dealing specifically with the dangers of a person indulging themselves on the holodeck/holosuite, don't we? Living out such extreme fantasies will create serious problems.

But now we’re straying into Miscellaneous and TNZ territory here.

Sorry, not sure what you mean by that.


I have to say I am a little surprised at the reaction I'm getting here. Are you guys suggesting that as long as it is fantasy and in private, anything goes?

Let's step back a little bit here and talk about real world examples. Are you suggesting that it is okay for adults to play computer games where the ONLY goal of the game is to rape/torture/murder others? Again, I'm being very specific. I have no issues with the sex based hentai games where you get to seduce as many people into having sex as you want. I'm talking about games where your avatar forcefully rape and violate in-game characters.

 

[JayOwl]

It's a bit different from masturbation because it would feel like physical sex. Most partners probably wouldn't be happy with it and- to be more practical it'd leave a mess.

 

[infinix]

I have fantasies about raping and torturing Betty Boop. Or sometimes Judy Jetson. Do I need to see a shrink?

Betty Boop and Judy Jetson are not on the same level of artificial construct as a hologram, unless you create holograms of those characters, but then that would be sort of funny. Reminds me of episodes of Drawn Together on Comedy Central.

On the topic of holograms, when we see holograms used in the Trek Universe, it is always holograms of real people. So your situation doesn't really apply.

On the other hand, if you were fantasizing about raping and torturing a real person....

 

[Jonas Grumby]

I have fantasies about raping and torturing Betty Boop.

I had that same fantasy, but only once. She head-butted me with that huge head of hers and I've never tried it again.

 

[Nightdiamond]

Riker has done it.

Janeway did it.

Barclay may have done it and a lot more. (With you know who)

Laforge kissed one and fell in love with one.

They obviously don't consider holograms beings with real feelings or rights.

Janeway would frequently tell the doctor this to his face, even after knowing him for years.

It's ironic though-they're real enough to stir up desires to have sex with or fall in love with, but draw the line at considering them sentient.

I think in general it's ok, but they may be walking a fine line depending on how, who, and what they do it with.

 

[Tiberius]

For all those who say it isn't right to program a holodeck character for the sole purpose of killing that character...

What about characters in computer games that you need to kill in order to complete the level? If Lara Croft has to kill the bad guy in order to get the magic talisman, do you have a problem with that? If, in Grand Theft Auto, I have to kill the guy who ran off without paying the hooker, do you have a problem with that? They are characters who have been made purely to be killed over and over again. And with today's technology, it's possible to have a computer character that responds appropriately if you shoot it in the leg or arm.

So what's the difference between a computer generated figure made of pixels and a computer generated figure made of photons and forcefields?

 

[Timo]

...And what's the difference between a victim made of pixels, and a victim who only exists inside my head? Basically just that the first victim can be a collective experience (I might meet another guy or gal who has the exact same fantasy), while the second is more private (meeting somebody who has the exact specifics down pat would be quite creepy).

"Anything goes" is not a question or an issue to be subjected to judgement. It's a fact of life: today, everywhere, anything goes - and there's nothing anybody can do about it. "Should" and "would" are meaningless considerations when absolutely no means exist for ever regulating the contents of our heads. Except of course the insertion of two .22 bullets, execution style.

Fiddling with the regulation of things like movies, video games, stage plays, LARPs or holoprograms is just rearranging the deck chairs of Titanic. Or of the safely cruising and happy Pacific Princess, for that matter.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[scotpens]

I have fantasies about raping and torturing Betty Boop.

I had that same fantasy, but only once. She head-butted me with that huge head of hers and I've never tried it again.

Try tying up Erin Esurance. She’s cute. (Slightly naughty cartoon but SFW.)

 

[Nightdiamond]

Except at least 2 of these things claimed to be sentient. They claimed they were self aware.

They claimed they deserved rights.

The doctor would complain about nobody turning his program off and how he was treated in general.

How would a holo prostitute that's used frequently feel?

Then again maybe they're tricked by their own programming to think they're sentient, but in the end, they're just programs.

 

[Paradon]

I'm sure if anybody want to endulge themselves with holographic people they can do it somewhere that offer the service, and it's nobody's business...and nobody has to hear about it either, if they don't want to.... [chuckle] I'm sure it would be against ship's rules and regulations! Running a ship is not a democracy....! [laugh]

 

[BlobVanDam]

"Computer, disable character sentience and shame protocols, and set gullibility index to +10"












"Also, disable safety protocols and add ballbusting subroutine"

 

[Tomalak]

Reminds me of Red Dwarf's AR machine, with groin attachment.

 

[barnaclelapse]

I'm not sure I'd care one way or another. I have a feeling my sex life in the future would be about the same as it is now.