To be fair, youtube is a cesspit of ignorance and stupidity in general. White supremacists, black supremacists, some-color-in-between supremacists, anti-semitism, homophobia, heterophobia, christian religious zealotry, muslim religious zealotry, atheist anti-religious zealotry, nationalism (American and otherwise) male chauvinism, female chauvinism, birthers, 9/11 "truthers", 2012 doomsday belivers, you name it. Anti-Americanism fits right in.
Us Damned Americans
- Thread starter Itisnotlogical
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To be fair, youtube is a cesspit of ignorance and stupidity in general. White supremacists, black supremacists, some-color-in-between supremacists, anti-semitism, homophobia, heterophobia, christian religious zealotry, muslim religious zealotry, atheist anti-religious zealotry, nationalism (American and otherwise) male chauvinism, female chauvinism, birthers, 9/11 "truthers", 2012 doomsday belivers, you name it. Anti-Americanism fits right in.
i've said before, i like the American ideal that all men are equal and your collective belief in freedom and justice for all, but really, your collective belief in your inherent superiority is disgusting; as is the stupidity of your collective belief that anything slightly left-wing or socialist is Communist and A Bad Thing.
i've known plenty of Americans online over the years, and many are fine people, but there is still a sense that somehow, America is the Best God-blessed Land on Earth, when really, it's not that great. if America wants to be REALLY awesome, they ought to ban the sale of firearms, create a truly equal social health-care system and learn to be a damn sight more humble.
and learn that just because it's not American, doesn't automatically make it crap.
i've known plenty of Americans online over the years, and many are fine people, but there is still a sense that somehow, America is the Best God-blessed Land on Earth, when really, it's not that great. if America wants to be REALLY awesome, they ought to ban the sale of firearms, create a truly equal social health-care system and learn to be a damn sight more humble.
and learn that just because it's not American, doesn't automatically make it crap.
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Amaris
Guest
My high school French teacher was wrong, then. She told us that there was a strong element of anti-Americanism in France, and so I walked away from those classes with the perplexing idea as to why the French people would hate someone for being a U.S. citizen.
I remember, though, that despite her (erroneous) warnings, I fell in love with the French culture.
There's still truth to it, but it's being bought out by major corporations that don't care who they step on when it comes to their greed.
If you want to stay sane and content don't ever read the comments on YouTube or really, on most news sites. Just a few days ago I read the most homophobic comments I've ever seen under a totally harmless article.
I don't think people hate America or Americans any more than they do other countries. I'm sure you can find similar comments about most other nations in the world, many of those comments coming then from Americans.
I don't know anyone who hates America or Americans or holds all of them responsible for the actions of the US government (although it is true that those of us living in democracies have some measure of responsibility for those actions, in an abstract way at least). And some of them are rather critical of the USA, i.e. its policies mostly. However, a lot of Americans seem to think that they're universally hated which is something that really bugs me.
I think the 24/7 news cycle is partly to blame. Every little sentiment has to be overblown into a raging, fueled hatred. I see this mostly by conservative news programs *cough*FOX*cough*, but even more liberal agencies use the old canard.
I could kiss you.
Some do that. Not all. I have a level of patriotism and pride in the people of my country, and I value the ideas and foundations of my country. There is a level of achievement, if one strives to uphold those ideas, the ideas of liberty, equality, and justice, and it's not unique to the U.S. It's a human trait.
I've yet to meet an American that believes in America's "inherent superiority"; in fact, almost everybody here wishes we were more like [insert somewhere else]. They view the Pledge of Allegiance as a minor annoyance that they have to say before school assemblies, and you'd probably be exempt from saying it if you took the slightest offense at anything to do with it.
And when has anybody you've ever met said that anything that isn't American is automatically crap? For God's sake, if you look on the bottom of pretty much anything here, it's all made in China, Taiwan, Vietnam or Pakistan! Even if they don't think very much of American people, we're actually very lucky that other countries like American dollars because I don't think we've manufactured anything by ourselves in significant numbers since the end of the era of post-WWII prosperity.
I don't think I have a shred of patriotic feeling inside me, on the contrary. It's almost physically impossible for me to wear my country's national colours or wave a flag. In the past, I used to root against my country's team in sports for the most part. But I've mellowed considerably in recent years on that front, mostly because the World Cup 2006 would have been unbearable otherwise. 
(A concerned friend asked me then how I was holding up, though.)
I don't think anyone waving the flag is a drooling idiot anymore, either. I still think it's a bit stupid but we all have our weaknesses.
(A concerned friend asked me then how I was holding up, though.)I don't think anyone waving the flag is a drooling idiot anymore, either. I still think it's a bit stupid but we all have our weaknesses.
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Amaris
Guest
I don't think I have a shred of patriotic feeling inside me, on the contrary. It's almost physically impossible for me to wear my country's national colours or wave a flag. In the past, I used to root against my country's team in sports for the most part. But I've mellowed considerably in recent years on that front, mostly because the World Cup 2006 would have been unbearable otherwise.
I don't think anyone waving the flag is a drooling idiot anymore, either. I still think it's a bit stupid but we all have our weaknesses.
Well, I don't wave the flag, not even on Independence Day. Sometimes I get misty eyed when a little old broken down WWII vet carries his flag with pride, but I'm not a prominent flag waver/allegiance pledger.
Well, this Thread is amusing. I can only conclude that most foreigners are as ignorant about America as most Americans are about other countries. 
I'll repeat what I said earlier in the Thread: Like anywhere else, the people who get the most attention are the traitors. And, unfortunately, when it comes to the symbols of American Patriotism, the Right Wing and the Left Wing have collaborated to corrupt them. The Right Wing has taken these symbols, which should represent American values, and presented them as symbols of religious extremism; and the Left Wing, which should be promoting the true meaning of those symbols, has simply allowed the Right Wing to take ownership of them. There are relatively few people like myself, who embrace these symbols for their true history and meaning.
PS to DN: You're a smart guy. I like the way you think.
Wow. "Collective identity?" "Monolithic entity?" Seriously? That's, uh... pretty much the opposite of how it is.
No, but they're related. Everybody, understandably, wants their culture to be Top Dog.
Patriotism is taking pride in your country. Nationalism is feeling superior to other countries. Everybody should be patriotic. Nobody should be nationalistic.
It's perfectly logical. The Melting Pot is one of the things that makes America great.
Sounds like you've slipped into an alternate dimension. If you meet somebody from America who believes that America is inherently superior, then you're talking to somebody who is anti-American-- per the first sentence in your post. And more than half the people in the country thing the Left Wing is a good thing (there's a saying here: "Left is right and Right is wrong.")
I'll repeat what I said earlier in the Thread: Like anywhere else, the people who get the most attention are the traitors. And, unfortunately, when it comes to the symbols of American Patriotism, the Right Wing and the Left Wing have collaborated to corrupt them. The Right Wing has taken these symbols, which should represent American values, and presented them as symbols of religious extremism; and the Left Wing, which should be promoting the true meaning of those symbols, has simply allowed the Right Wing to take ownership of them. There are relatively few people like myself, who embrace these symbols for their true history and meaning.
PS to DN: You're a smart guy. I like the way you think.
I assure you my resentment over military action has nothing to do with jealousy.
No, they do not want their culture to be top dog. No one in other first world countries is sitting around thinking, "hey wouldn't it be awesome if we were a super power?" There is no better lifestyle in the US because it is a super power, and in fact life is a lot harder there than in many first world countries. Lower wages, high health care costs, whole areas such as Cleveland whose once great infrastructures are crumbling and abandoned. I have many American relatives and they don't seem to be benefitting from being a superpower one bit.
What does this have to do with anything? Once again, no one is admiring or desiring of the US because the US is a super power. You can say that Canada, Britain, Australia are all less powerful countries on the world scale but their quality of life is equal if not better to the US.
J
Jetfire
Guest
Here is the point were some Americans blind themselves with patriotism. Their country is sooooo great, which means everyone who's criticizing it must be just jealous.
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Amaris
Guest
You'll find that I agree, QoL is better in other countries. According to the World Economic and Social QoL index, the U.S. ranks 7th. I wouldn't dispute it. We have vast resources, massive wealth, and it's all concentrated in tiny spots instead of all over the country. I'm not disagreeing with any of that.
I hear you there. When I was in Michigan, a few of us "foreigners" (Europeans all got lumped together, because nobody seemed to get that it's a continent, not a country) went out with some natives. This girl from Edmonton told the wide-eyed young man that her igloo was being made ready for the winter, and he was just nodding all the time.
Suddenly, she burst out laughing and said, "you're not actually buying this, are you?". He was.
That is only one example about one guy, not a generalisation, but during my year in America, I heard so many Canada-related jokes, it was unbelievable. One bloke I went on a date with actually tried to convince me that Earth did not need Canada.
"Who needs Canada, right?" is the most popular in-joke amongst my family members, now.
There are those who defy the cliche: my favourite Americans Billie Joe Armstrong and Stephen King among them.
I suppose most people here aren't like that, either.
Well, I can see that you didn't read my posts for...well, the entire Bush Administration.
Jeez...I was full time 'against the grain' for 8 long YEARS. And not being a particular fan of Obama, I'm still kind of going against the grain (although decidedly less so). During the Dubya years, I went against the grain to the point of exhaustion, in fact. At one point, my own President was calling me (and those like me) an un-American terrorist sympathizer right from the podium, simply because I was opposed to going into Afghanistan (let alone Iraq). And I still refused to back down. The Wars, the Patriot Act, Gitmo, Katrina...GAH! There was always something to be pissed off about during those 8 years. Now, I wasn't completely alone. And maybe it just felt like I was more alone than I really was since I live in the reddest part of one of the reddest states in the Union (Newt Gingrich was my congressman, just to give you some perspective). But while there were not many of us, especially in the couple of years after 911 when Dubya was working the fear factor for all it was worth and people were buying it in droves, there were some of us who could not be sold. And more started catching on, the further we got away from 911 and our President's ability to manipulate us through fear.
I will say, however, that those years following 911 are not the best years upon which to base your opinion of the US as a whole. 911 was absolutely the most traumatic thing that has ever happened to us, as a nation, and a LOT of people didn't know what to do with the shock, fear, and anger we all felt. Unfortunately, our own President, opportunistic bastard that he was, chose the low road and used the occasion to consolidate his power through fear-mongering and perpetration of the 'if you are not with us (meaning HIM), you are against us (meaning the USA)' mantra. It's easy to breed fear and super-nationalism in an atmosphere of national shock and confusion...and that is exactly what our own leaders chose to do. That so many Americans fell for it is unfortunate (since it got us into TWO very expensive and very pointless wars and almost irreparably harmed our constitution), but not really extraordinary. I mean, civilian targets were attacked on our own soil by a 'force' that was not easily identifiable and in a manner that 10 minutes before it happened, no one could have imagined.
It's like the perfect storm for someone like Dubya, who was looking to consolidate absolute power. He simply labeled anyone who opposed him a 'terrorist sympathizer', tried to say a few things a day that would keep fear alive, and he was golden.
Now, at least we've gotten back to a national debate. It is true (and again, unfortunate) that our nation's biggest whack-jobs are the ones running it...but just the fact that we are truly debating at all is better than where we were 7-8 years ago, when near lock-step agreement with the Administration was required, simply to avoid being labeled a terrorist sympathizer.
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Actually I'm seeing that a lot in this thread. I can't make up my mind if people actually think all criticism is founded in envy or whether they are personalising a perceived injustice to incorporate everyone else in the world against the USA. Either way it's a cop-out, since it conveniently disregards any critics as having the problem rather than the other way round.
Of course, I think you mean, in recent memory. Compare with Pearl Harbor attack, JFK assassination, Civil War to get a broader view of trauma in American history.
The United States is not the first country in which nationalism and patriotism have run amok and caused war. I hope we can learn from what happened in other countries during the 20th Century.Unfortunately, our own President, opportunistic bastard that he was, chose the low road and used the occasion to consolidate his power through fear-mongering and perpetration of the 'if you are not with us (meaning HIM), you are against us' mantra. It's easy to breed fear and super-nationalism in an atmosphere of national shock and confusion...and that is exactly what our own leaders chose to do. That so many Americans fell for it is unfortunate (since it got us into TWO very expensive and very pointless wars and almost irreparably harmed our constitution), but not really extraordinary. I mean, civilian targets were attacked on our own soil by a 'force' that was not easily identifiable and in a manner that 10 minutes before it happened, no one could have imagined.
It's like the perfect storm for someone like Dubya, who was looking to consolidate absolute power. He simply labeled anyone who opposed him a 'terrorist sympathizer', tried to say a few things a day that would keep fear alive, and he was golden.
Now, at least we've gotten back to a national debate. It is true (and again, unfortunate) that our nation's biggest whack-jobs are the ones running it...but just the fact that we are truly debating at all is better than where we were 7-8 years ago, when near lock-step agreement with the Administration was required, simply to avoid being labeled a terrorist sympathizer.
Here is the point were some Americans blind themselves with patriotism. Their country is sooooo great, which means everyone who's criticizing it must be just jealous.
There are plenty of us who are NOT like that. Plenty. Those of us who have traveled alot outside the US (to places other than US military installations and in manners other than tour buses filled with other Americans) in particular are VERY well aware of the fact that not everyone is just DYING to be like us. Nor is everyone DYING to come here and be one of us.
Shit - the way our economy is right now, and the direction it is headed (with the decimation of the middle class and a wider and wider gap between the very rich and the soon-to-be poor), there are a lot of days where *I* am no longer dying to be 'one of us'!
I will say that our political leaders (on both sides of the aisle) have a long and colorful history of TELLING us that others are 'jealous' or whatever. But anyone who has been outside the US and has actually paid attention for more than 10 minutes knows this isn't true.
Here is the point were some Americans blind themselves with patriotism. Their country is sooooo great, which means everyone who's criticizing it must be just jealous.
Sadly, that sort of noresponse response is all too common.
Well, for the reasons I stated, I'd say 911 will go down in American history as being pretty near the top, if not at THE top of that list, in terms of shock and trauma caused to a civilian population.
JFK's assassination, while horrifying, did not fill the nation with terror. Profound sadness and grief. Yes - absolutely. But widespread, absolute terror on a national scale? No. And there are very few forces that are more motivational than terror. Which was sort of my point.
In my view, the closest we otherwise come to 911 was Pearl Harbor - the first time we were attacked on our own soil (although note that it was not our mainland soil). But even then, as I stated above, the force who attacked us was a known, identifiable government. It was an enemy we could identify and retaliate against. It was not some nearly invisible terrorist group without a county; without an army to fight.
Further, the attack on Pearl was directed at a military target - not a civilian one. It was the Japanese's opening volley in a traditional warfare scenario. Not something you want or hope for or look forward to, obviously...but certainly something we knew how to deal with in the long term. An identifiable enemy; Japan; hitting military targets using submarines and planes, for the most part. Terrifying? Yes. But in my view, not nearly as terrifying to your average citizen as a bunch of faceless terrorists with no country or government we could retaliate against attacking mainly civilian targets using our own everyday civilian aircraft against us - NOT to provoke a military conflict (I mean, with who?), but specifically to instill terror into the hearts of the civilian population that 'we could be next'.
Add to this our modern 24-hr news day, with plenty of streaming video so we could watch those planes hitting the towers over and over and over and over and over while listening to 24/7 commentary that kept us worked up into a national tizzy for weeks? No..for my money, 911 was more traumatizing to the general population of the country than was Pearl. At least in the short term. Once we started losing battles in the Pacific that we were actually more 'prepared' for, WWII got alot more terrifying. But, in terms of initial trauma to the general population? My money's on 911. Your mileage may vary, of course.
i've personally met very few Americans, but more than a few on here and on other sites seem to cop the attitude that USA = better than anything else.
like all this shit about poor dental hyginene in Britain, pisses me off no end and i was amused to read (on cracked, i admit, but they cited a UN report) that Britain has BETTER dental hygiene than the US. it's just that WE don't care if our teeth aren't dazzlingly white. we just care that they're not falling out or full of holes.
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