Which means, my dvds have not been erased. Now, if that isn't a reason to celebrate, I don't know what is! 
Nemesis
- Thread starter heavylids
- Start date
Thank the Gods of Kobol. Imagine everytime someone created a new series your dvd would be erased? Or worse, every bad written fanfiction would destroy canon? The horror of ill-matched fangirl-created pairings!!!!
Yes the books are continuing the old continuity but at least for now I think this is the last we'll be seeing of it for a while if not for good.
My point is calling it "Old". It's not old, it's the original continuity. Just like I get driven crazy by people still calling the books relaunches instead of continuations!! A relaunch is the event that restarts something. That's been done now. It's a continuation.
When you typed "least inconsistencies" in regards to Nemesis, did you do it without busting out laughing?
Its actually a pretty basic plot, and yes it has fewer inconsistencies than the other movies. STGEN probably has the most.
RAMA
STV makes no sense whatsoever...from the opening scene onwards...
Its actually a pretty basic plot, and yes it has fewer inconsistencies than the other movies. STGEN probably has the most.
I won't argue that - Gen was a pretty epic piece of shit as well, and Nem does have a basic plot I guess, but it's both internally and externally inconsistent. Shinzon wanting to destroy Earth makes little to no sense at all.
Now, I want to make it very clear that I don't think STV is a good movie, but the plot is pretty basic and makes perfect sense. Spock's brother is getting visions of Sha Ka Ree and needs some way to get there. Since no one in their right mind would try to breach the barrier, he has to steal a starship. When he finds "God", it isn't what he thought it would be and then they kill God and live happily ever after.
In Nemesis, Shinzon is created as a clone to take Picard's place or something, they decide not to do that dumb-ass plan so they stick him in a Reman mine. He grows up hating Romulans and eventually leads an uprising, killing the entire senate and for some reason gets to be the Praetor. Some people are okay with rationalizing that in their heads, I'm not. At any rate, that's where the story should have ended. But because they felt the need to make a shitty movie out of it, for some reason Shinzon needs Picard's blood all of a sudden (never mind that he never needed it for his first 30 years of life) and for some reason he hates Picard and decides that he has to blow up Earth. It makes no damn sense.
I think Shinzon would have made a terrific villain for the series but not for a movie. Had no problem with Tom Hardy's performance.
Eh...frankly, I don't think the concept of Shinzon could be salvaged. The "evil clone" thing was hokey and silly with Lore, and Shinzon's inexplicable shifts in motivation (which occur with alarming regularity) and his nonsensical backstory don't help; at least Lore was basically consistent, even if I think he was a bad idea.
I too think that TFF, at its heart, has a very good story to tell. I posted a thread about how I think Sybok's story parallels Spock's story in TMP and creates an interesting thematic counterpoint, but it didn't get much attention.
Shinzon never had any shifting motivation, his plan was always to destroy Earth using the thalaron radiation, he was curious about Picard though and Jean-Luc being who he is attempted to reach out to the "good" in his clone. I will agree that the backstory for Shinzon was pretty convoluted.
Earth is the center of Starfleet and the Federation. I suppose he was thinking destroy the capital and it would be a major morale blow to the rest of the Federation. Same reason Nero wanted to at the end of "Star Trek" and why anyone who has a notion of attacking Earth wants to.
Yeah, but why? His character arc was in no way related to anything about earth other than his genes originated there. What was the endgame of the destruction of earth? It makes no sense. He wasn't supposed to be insane, was he?
Nero was clearly insane and on a mad bender of destruction. His motivations aren't all that important, he just wanted to destroy things because of his own loss. It makes much more sense than Shinzon at any rate.
Nero was clearly insane and on a mad bender of destruction. His motivations aren't all that important, he just wanted to destroy things because of his own loss. It makes much more sense than Shinzon at any rate.
Yeah I understand what you're saying...another part of the reason why John Logan's script was flawed. Shinzon should have continued his focus on the Star Empire, target more planets with the radiation forcing Starfleet to intervene to stop him. There's a lot of things in Nemesis that don't make sense I guess.
I never understood why the Writers wanted the Remans to destroy Earth or conquer the Federation. That makes them no different, as Villains anyway, then the regular Romulan hardliners who've wanted to destroy the Federation since the days of Captain Archer. Which, for an audience who has been following Star Trek for so long, is boring and, ahem, fatiguing.
A more interesting approach would have been to leave Earth out of it altogether and have Shinzon continue on his, and more importantly the Remans, rampage of vengeance against the Romulans. This would have given the actions of Picard and Co. more meaning to the Star Empire and a motive for establishing peace with the Federation. Kind of similar to how the actions of the Enterprise C help lead to an established alliance between the Klingons and Feds.
This would have also further developed the Nemesis theme by including an exploration of the differences between the Remans & Romulans, along with the juxtaposition of Picard/Shinzon and Data/B4.
So that in the trailer for "Star Trek: Nemesis", you can have a scary-looking guy saying, "Set a course for earth, KILL EVERYTHING!". Yeah, exciting! That'll put butts in the seats.
Shinzon was all over the place. Makes no sense.
He's got this psychological hang-up with Picard.
As if he cannot live as an echo while Picard exists,
so he must destroy Picard in order to live. That's his motivation.
Then there's the biological hang-up, where he will die unless he gets Picard's blood. Picard must survive intact into his hands or else he cannot physically continue to live. That's his motivation.
And we have the Remans. Shinzon is devoted to his Reman "brothers" and he states his whole purpose is to rescue them from slavery and liberate them. That's his motivation.
Hold on... there are Romulans, too. Shinzon's got a gripe against them, understandably. He must exact revenge upon them, and he pursues that goal. That's his motivation.
Wait, there's more.
Even though Shinzon's got most of all this stuff above already covered, he goes even further. He's got Picard, freed the Remans, wiped out the Romulans, got the Empire in his control.
But now, for some reason, he's got a giant grudge against Earth and the Federation. He must DESTROY them, too. That's his motivation.
Whew. What's his point again? What does Shinzon want? What's his motivation? Huh??
He's got this psychological hang-up with Picard.
As if he cannot live as an echo while Picard exists,
so he must destroy Picard in order to live. That's his motivation.
Then there's the biological hang-up, where he will die unless he gets Picard's blood. Picard must survive intact into his hands or else he cannot physically continue to live. That's his motivation.
And we have the Remans. Shinzon is devoted to his Reman "brothers" and he states his whole purpose is to rescue them from slavery and liberate them. That's his motivation.
Hold on... there are Romulans, too. Shinzon's got a gripe against them, understandably. He must exact revenge upon them, and he pursues that goal. That's his motivation.
Wait, there's more.
Even though Shinzon's got most of all this stuff above already covered, he goes even further. He's got Picard, freed the Remans, wiped out the Romulans, got the Empire in his control.
But now, for some reason, he's got a giant grudge against Earth and the Federation. He must DESTROY them, too. That's his motivation.
Whew. What's his point again? What does Shinzon want? What's his motivation? Huh??
How could you forget?
He wants to touch Troi's hair.
He's horny... for something that doesn't look like a space vampire.
That's his motivation.
There's nothing resembling a consensus on TMP since a very sizable minority on this board rates its as or among the best of the trek films, myself included. Indeed, I suspect that a majorty of posters around here rank it in the middle of the pack or above.
For me, Nemesis is the best of the lousy Trek movies, which include Insurrection, Generations, The Final Frontier and, yes, The Voyage Home. And of the ones that remain, only TMP, TWoK and the newest one strike me as being truly "good."
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