As a hand-knitter, I became so fed up with the declining quality of commercially available knitting yarns, I'm learning to spin my own wool, silk and alpaca. I already make my own yoghurt and icecream. I bake my cakes from scratch and taking classes on how to hand model sugar paste flowers and figurines.
They don't make 'em like they used to...
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Trilliam--hand modeled any sugar Enterprises?
My mum too has been complaining about that for years -and she only knits socks!
I've only learned how to make roses, daisies, star jasmine and human figures at the moment (plus how to cover single and multi-tiered cakes in fondant). Next course is tropical flowers. I will ask the teacher about space craft. IF they can offer courses in making stiletto shoes out of modelling paste, sculpt "Mad Hatter's" cakes, how much harder would a shuttle at least, be?
Things weren't like this in my day, you know!
To pick up the example of the H&M T-shirt you used (though the basic macro principles are true for almost any industry really): the cost of clothing has fallen consistently since the early 1990s and this year is going be the first since then that the trend is reversed.
The reasons for that long-term drop were cheaper production facilities, more efficient logistics chains, and economies of scale in delivery. The T-shirt you bought in 2000 may well have lasted 10 years but it also almost certainly cost you more than the one in 2010, especially if you were to apply indexation to the 2000 cost.
The changes now are that the production is no longer as cheap, due to an increasing middle class in producing countries causing wage pressures; cotton itself becoming more expensive; and inflation in our country is also having an effect.
However, populations in developed countries are now used to paying a low price for their cotton goods like T-shirts. Therefore, to maintain price point, the quality must drop. You want better, you must be prepared to pay more.
The axiom of "Good, Fast, Cheap: Pick Two" has always been true, but the ability use China's vast spare manufacturing capacity to effectively import price deflation caused a temporary abeyance of this truism for the past 15-20 years. Vietnam, Cambodia and the like are temporary stop-gap measures to try to postpone the inevitable, but with Africa as a continent (the only other really big sinkhole of ultra-cheap labour) being unreliable in many different ways, I'm afraid the developed world will just have to relearn that, yes, more money is required for good things and most people cannot afford the best of everything.
In truth, leaving aside year-year fluctuations, as a planet, our per capita purchasing power is actually rising so more people are able to buy more things than ever before. A certain degree of rebalancing through the world is pretty a inevitable (and indeed desirable) function of increasingly efficient globalised supply chains IMO.
Things weren't like this in my day, you know!
To pick up the example of the H&M T-shirt you used (though the basic macro principles are true for almost any industry really): the cost of clothing has fallen consistently since the early 1990s and this year is going be the first since then that the trend is reversed.
The reasons for that long-term drop were cheaper production facilities, more efficient logistics chains, and economies of scale in delivery. The T-shirt you bought in 2000 may well have lasted 10 years but it also almost certainly cost you more than the one in 2010, especially if you were to apply indexation to the 2000 cost.
The changes now are that the production is no longer as cheap, due to an increasing middle class in producing countries causing wage pressures; cotton itself becoming more expensive; and inflation in our country is also having an effect.
However, populations in developed countries are now used to paying a low price for their cotton goods like T-shirts. Therefore, to maintain price point, the quality must drop. You want better, you must be prepared to pay more.
The axiom of "Good, Fast, Cheap: Pick Two" has always been true, but the ability use China's vast spare manufacturing capacity to effectively import price deflation caused a temporary abeyance of this truism for the past 15-20 years. Vietnam, Cambodia and the like are temporary stop-gap measures to try to postpone the inevitable, but with Africa as a continent (the only other really big sinkhole of ultra-cheap labour) being unreliable in many different ways, I'm afraid the developed world will just have to relearn that, yes, more money is required for good things and most people cannot afford the best of everything.
In truth, leaving aside year-year fluctuations, as a planet, our per capita purchasing power is actually rising so more people are able to buy more things than ever before. A certain degree of rebalancing through the world is pretty a inevitable (and indeed desirable) function of increasingly efficient globalised supply chains IMO.
Read that three times, didn't get it: time for bed!
I wrote this a few weeks ago. I thought it seemed vaguely relevant
From having to not having: the ten levels of wisdom
Having leads to enjoyment
Enjoyment leads to wanting
Wanting leads to impulsiveness
Impulsiveness leads to waste
Waste leads to management
Management leads to deferred gratification
Deferred gratification leads to anticipation
Anticipation leads to anticlimax
Anticlimax leads to rejection
Rejection leads to not having.
From having to not having: the ten levels of wisdom
Having leads to enjoyment
Enjoyment leads to wanting
Wanting leads to impulsiveness
Impulsiveness leads to waste
Waste leads to management
Management leads to deferred gratification
Deferred gratification leads to anticipation
Anticipation leads to anticlimax
Anticlimax leads to rejection
Rejection leads to not having.
^ The answer to life the universe and everything. 
That view makes me want to check out today, to be honest! 
It is quite interesting how you've linked some things that might not intuitively (as I see it) go together, but I do see what you mean.
True.
When you are very familiar with a place and have been shopping there for years, you tend to start using a type of shorthand - you know what you're looking for, and how it will feel and fit - so you might purchase something without examining it too closely with a magnifying glass as you might be wont to do in unfamiliar surroundings.
After I've taken the item home and worn it, I might absent-mindedly notice something is off with how it feels and settles, I might wonder if I have gained or lost some weight, or if my posture's changed to make it look so different... I might dismiss all that as too baffling and carry on as before, launder it, and put it in a drawer. It might be only then everything clicks into place, and I notice the quality of the materials and workmanship no longer have anything to do with a similar item in the same drawer which I'd bought at the same store at an earlier date. The changes are subtle but significant. The stitching may remain the same, but the thread may be poorer. The cloth may look and feel similar, but fibres may be shorter and more prone to splitting. There may be the same reinforcements around the neck, but the technique of attachment may have changed... these are things you will only probably notice with time.
This pisses me off because it means I have to find elsewhere to shop to maintain a reasonable standard. I enjoy the convenience and simplicity of knowing who stocks what I need. My height and shape are not the easiest to dress, and so I am not able to walk into random shops and try something on with a reasonable expectation that it will look how I want, I am not that lucky, or my tastes are just that funny. Anyway, when I find something that fits well, I stick with it, as it has usually taken a lot of effort to find it in the first place.
Price increases are not pleasant, but it is the fact that I will have to go out and trawl god knows how many more shops for what I want, yet again, that irritates me the most of the two. I would rather they keep their standards high, and crank up the prices as necessary to save me the time and trouble of being misled and annoyed. Or, at least have some sort of display indicating when drastic changes have occurred, so I do not end up buying pretend clothes. Since this display would have to indicate something like: "Attention, we are now more crap than ever before!", it's understandable they don't want to advertise such things. Fool me once and all that though.
I really despise the trend for disposable anything, somebody needs to cater to the type of shopper who is lazy and loyal, and sticks with something when they like it... I don't mean I wear identical uniformal clothes for years and years, there are variations in fashion of course, but the one thing I want to remain steady is the quality. If I give my custom to a shop, it is usually for quality reasons, and if they no longer provide that, I will have to move along, and have had to do so way too many times in a short period of time.
I mean, why not cater to us with good honest doable profit margins, rather than something inflated into a percentage of 100s, maybe 1000s, is that too much to ask?
There are of course a few places that are still very honest, but they are few and far between, and you really have to hunt for them. I am not wealthy, but I still want reasonable quality without going into debt. There are many like me, but not enough, the disposable crowd who will buy just about any kind of crap are ruining it for the rest of us.
What do you expect though, when people are kept so busy trying to work a 9 to 5, keep a roof over their heads, care for their children, have a few hobbies... all life outside of work having to be squeezed into evenings and weekends, the number of chores left to do become overwhelming, and in big cities, every place is crowded and uncomfortable at those times... this type of average person doesn't have time to stand around looking over things with a fine tooth comb. Big business have us where they want us: rushed, harassed, tired, absent-minded, undiscerning consumers - not people who deserve quality of life, but one giant consuming wallet walking around. This nation and many others with it are going to hell in a hand-basket due to insatiable greed. I guess it is the cycle of things... boom and bust, nothing lasts forever, even the super powers. Maybe when the shit really hits the fan, I will have to relocate to keep my quality of life relatively even without suffering too much deterioration, perhaps riding the wave of some other nation's boom phase. Becoming a global citizen might be the only answer to side-steeping inevitable problems like this (if you live long enough to see the cycles).
That view makes me want to check out today, to be honest! It is quite interesting how you've linked some things that might not intuitively (as I see it) go together, but I do see what you mean.True.
I have no problems whatsoever with fair trading, I think it's a wonderful thing, and about time, too! I do buy a lot of fair trade products, even though they cost a little more.
I do not mind paying more when the occasion calls for it. What I do mind is underhand, unannounced changes.
When you are very familiar with a place and have been shopping there for years, you tend to start using a type of shorthand - you know what you're looking for, and how it will feel and fit - so you might purchase something without examining it too closely with a magnifying glass as you might be wont to do in unfamiliar surroundings.
After I've taken the item home and worn it, I might absent-mindedly notice something is off with how it feels and settles, I might wonder if I have gained or lost some weight, or if my posture's changed to make it look so different... I might dismiss all that as too baffling and carry on as before, launder it, and put it in a drawer. It might be only then everything clicks into place, and I notice the quality of the materials and workmanship no longer have anything to do with a similar item in the same drawer which I'd bought at the same store at an earlier date. The changes are subtle but significant. The stitching may remain the same, but the thread may be poorer. The cloth may look and feel similar, but fibres may be shorter and more prone to splitting. There may be the same reinforcements around the neck, but the technique of attachment may have changed... these are things you will only probably notice with time.
This pisses me off because it means I have to find elsewhere to shop to maintain a reasonable standard. I enjoy the convenience and simplicity of knowing who stocks what I need. My height and shape are not the easiest to dress, and so I am not able to walk into random shops and try something on with a reasonable expectation that it will look how I want, I am not that lucky, or my tastes are just that funny. Anyway, when I find something that fits well, I stick with it, as it has usually taken a lot of effort to find it in the first place.
Price increases are not pleasant, but it is the fact that I will have to go out and trawl god knows how many more shops for what I want, yet again, that irritates me the most of the two. I would rather they keep their standards high, and crank up the prices as necessary to save me the time and trouble of being misled and annoyed. Or, at least have some sort of display indicating when drastic changes have occurred, so I do not end up buying pretend clothes. Since this display would have to indicate something like: "Attention, we are now more crap than ever before!", it's understandable they don't want to advertise such things. Fool me once and all that though.
I really despise the trend for disposable anything, somebody needs to cater to the type of shopper who is lazy and loyal, and sticks with something when they like it... I don't mean I wear identical uniformal clothes for years and years, there are variations in fashion of course, but the one thing I want to remain steady is the quality. If I give my custom to a shop, it is usually for quality reasons, and if they no longer provide that, I will have to move along, and have had to do so way too many times in a short period of time.
I mean, why not cater to us with good honest doable profit margins, rather than something inflated into a percentage of 100s, maybe 1000s, is that too much to ask?
There are of course a few places that are still very honest, but they are few and far between, and you really have to hunt for them. I am not wealthy, but I still want reasonable quality without going into debt. There are many like me, but not enough, the disposable crowd who will buy just about any kind of crap are ruining it for the rest of us.
What do you expect though, when people are kept so busy trying to work a 9 to 5, keep a roof over their heads, care for their children, have a few hobbies... all life outside of work having to be squeezed into evenings and weekends, the number of chores left to do become overwhelming, and in big cities, every place is crowded and uncomfortable at those times... this type of average person doesn't have time to stand around looking over things with a fine tooth comb. Big business have us where they want us: rushed, harassed, tired, absent-minded, undiscerning consumers - not people who deserve quality of life, but one giant consuming wallet walking around. This nation and many others with it are going to hell in a hand-basket due to insatiable greed. I guess it is the cycle of things... boom and bust, nothing lasts forever, even the super powers. Maybe when the shit really hits the fan, I will have to relocate to keep my quality of life relatively even without suffering too much deterioration, perhaps riding the wave of some other nation's boom phase. Becoming a global citizen might be the only answer to side-steeping inevitable problems like this (if you live long enough to see the cycles).
Definately not aging.
I agree with you here. This is how it tends to be, and it's unrealistic for a shopper to devote that much time to thoroughly check over an item, see it is inferior and move onto another option. You do that a few times, wasted a few afternoons and have still not bought what you wanted. Feeling a need to search for quality as well as aesthetics becomes tiresome, and can take the pleasure out of shopping for me.
Part of the problem I think is that poor quality is being manufactured en masse, and good quality becomes manufactured in small scale industries. The effect is that good quality becomes a lot more expensive that it would would be if it were benefiting from mass production by being the majority.
As a process, capitalism is localised optimisation, what we call "greedy" in algorithm-speak.
It's a very similar process to that which occurs in game theory where players reach their Nash equilibrium by making locally optimal choices.
We learn from game theory, how it's seldom a good direction to aim for: It's blind to the bigger picture where greater states of optimisation lie, which can't be reached through localised gains.
Locally optimal choices would be things like a manufacturer increasing sales and profit and lowering product costs by:
- using the same stitching but with poorer thread;
- using similar looking/feeling cloth but fibres that are shorter and more prone to splitting;
- using the same reinforcements around the neck, but the technique of attaching them is inferior.
Is it wrong that I read all of that with Yoda's voice?
Read that three times, didn't get it: time for bed!
Read it again now you're awake.
The thing is, "fair trade" as an ethical concept is a very artificial thing. It's a sop to first-world consciences, and of course does have some minor beneficial effects in third-world countries, so naturally I don't object to it as one of many consumer choices.
But in the longer run, free trade and globalisation will drive up living standards in the developing world by far more. And when it does, current "fair trade" prices will seem ridiculously cheap by comparison, let alone current standard prices. Both grossly undervalue that actual cost of the products we buy if they were produced in countries with first-world standards of living.
The first world population gets an immense economic subsidy from the different stage of economic development it has versus the developing world. And note that I said "population" not "economy"...
People have a tendency to believing that it's businesses/corporations and the wealthy generally that benefit from this difference in living standards. "Businesses making money off the backs of the poor in the developing world", that sort of thing. In fact, that's really not the problem.
Businesses and corporations can make profits irrespective of the difference in living standards betwen countries. The business model would be different, but the profits would still be made, GDP would continue to grow, etc. They adapt to changing demographics quite easily. There's always money to be made.
The people who actually benefit most from the current global divisions in income and standards of living are the poor and middle classes in developed countries.
This is an important question and the answer is embedded in my earlier post and above in this one. The actual profit margin as a function of turnover at each stage of the supply chain is quite modest and reasonable. Competition between suppliers ensures that. The retail environment is incredibly competitive, especially in the low/middle-market. For example, occasionally the supermarkets try to illegally cartel to fix prices. It fails in the long-run, because one of them breaks ranks and undercuts the others in the cyclical price wars that always break out. Instead, they more commonly work by applying downward price pressure right through their supply chain, due to their vast purchasing power. This, in fact, squeezes rather than enhances profit margins at every stage of the production process.
The really vast mark-ups on wholesale costs only appear in luxury branded items or other extreme discretionary purchases. And even there, unsold stock gets sold off through a range of "grey" discounted routes, so overall overall profit margin is not anywhere near the multiple you suggest. Common markup on clothes in middle-market brands is just 3-4 times wholesale cost, and actual profit far lower than this. Supermarket clothes operate on far lower multiples (they depend on volume instead). H&M is somewhere in the middle.
The reason there's a significant mark-up in low/middle market goods between cost of production (which is different from wholesale cost) and point of sale is because of the amazingly extended global supply chains we have. Each stage of producing goods around only extracts a "reasonable" profit due to competition, but when you look at start of the chain to the end, the mark-up is significant. No one business GETS that mark-up though; it's salami-sliced at every stage of the process.
But consider this: even with that mark-up, cost to consumer is STILL lower than it would be without global supply chains. That really is an extraordinary fact when you think about it, and is a function of just how dirt-cheap labour is in some parts of the world (and increased technological sophistication in the logistics chain also helps massively). Once those countries become better off, it will be the poor and middle classes in developed countries that will notice the hardest squeeze.
Increased cost of quality T-shirts is just one tiny example of what the future holds for these consumers. At the moment, polarisation between the poor and the wealthy in developed countries is artificially minimised by maintaining a larger polarisation between developed countries and developing countries.
There are solutions: using Africa in the same way we've used China, lowering the cost of logistics through some kind of technological step-change like containerisation achieved, lowering supply chain energy costs through developing fusion, and so on.
And in the fullness of time, as you rightly suggest, the idea of being a global citizen where your purchasing power can be directly challened to your country of choice will erode the problem. That really would be free trade and globalisation operating without friction/tariff impediments. But getting there will involve quite intense social dislocation in developed countries, which we're just skimming the surface of at the moment.
None of these changes are easy, mind...
Really? What's your secret?
I do! I always put my best into a job, even if the job kinda sucks.
This is all too true.
I see so many people who think they are awesome and just suck at their job and don't care anyway because they think they're too good for it. They don't even try. They should be happy to be employed!
I tend to agree with the idea that many things these days just aren't meant to last very long so you have to buy them again after a few years or so (even sooner with clothing items, IMO)...
I admit that I still have a robe I wear round the house that's perhaps thirty+ years old. For a long time, I was holding onto it purely for sentimental value (my mom bought it for me when I was a kid), but when I took it out of the box, I realized it was still holding up quite well and made me hold off buying a new one as it still fit me and the stitching is still good after all these years...
The trousers I bought just two years ago--not so much.
I admit that I still have a robe I wear round the house that's perhaps thirty+ years old. For a long time, I was holding onto it purely for sentimental value (my mom bought it for me when I was a kid), but when I took it out of the box, I realized it was still holding up quite well and made me hold off buying a new one as it still fit me and the stitching is still good after all these years...
The trousers I bought just two years ago--not so much.
A
Amaris
Guest
I think it's some kind of cream or balm.
(Contains Botox®)
I've noticed the quality of pretty much everything is falling very steeply, especially in the current state of the economy... food and clothes brands that I've been buying for years just don't taste nor feel the same anymore.
I remember really enjoying the taste of chocolates like Quality Street and Roses as a child, but now, they make me want to gag - they've substituted all the good stuff for rubbish. They are in the same packaging, but the contents have nothing to do with one another.
I used to buy perfectly good quality basic tops and t-shirts from H&M, but the stuff they sell now won't survive the first wash. I have a t-shirt purchased there more than 10 years ago which still looks brand new, though it must have been washed 1000 times by now. I've had to switch to a slightly more expensive brand, just to get a similar quality - but even they have started doing rubbish as I saw in my last visit! They have reduced the quality of 90% of their lines, and so, you have to look long and hard to find the good fabrics - well-woven and soft. If I have to upgrade yet again, I don't think I'll be able to afford to keep it up once my old stuff wears out.
Just 5 years ago - I could buy a pair of fantastic quality leather shoes for around £30. Right now, I'd struggle to find a good quality pair of flip flops for that. In fact, my last pair of Havaianas were about £25. I used to do just fine with a local market pair for a fiver which would last years. Now, you just can't get away with that, they fall apart in 2 days.
At the beginning of this winter, I realised I needed to get a pair of warm house shoes, as it was particularly cold, and my last pair (which were less than £10) had seen better days. I went to various department stores and tried many, but the only pair on a par with my previous cost £45! I was not happy, but I paid it, it was that or get frostbite on my toes with the cold draft that blows through our old flat!
I can't even buy a cup of friggin' coffee without spitting it out, as the quality has deteriorated so much (Starbucks!). I'm finding I have to avoid big multinational chains on the whole in order to get good value, as they are too greedy and unethical, the minute they meet with a little success, it is not enough, they have to double the profit by undercutting the quality. The cost of things and the actual quality have become miles apart.
I honestly believe I live in a society in decline, it has reached its peak already, and now it's on a course of self-destruct. If things continue as they are, with pay not increasing by much, and the cost of things sky rocketing as steeply as the quality is plummeting, I dread to think where we'll be in 20 years. Only the very wealthy will have access to the good things in life, I guess.
I guess it's like boiling a frog, you turn the heat up so slowly, he doesn't notice the changes.
How are things where you are in the world? Are you noticing changes? This is a post that should have been written by an OAP, right? Things weren't like this in my day, you know!
H&M has been know to sell cheaply looking and made clothes and coats. I remember before the hard times a friend told me their clothes don't last a full year after purchasing it. The fabrics they use don't look appealing, but it makes the clothes llook cheaply made. I bought a winter coat at H&M four years ago two years later it started falling apart. I had to saw every button back on the coat.
Where are you people getting such crappy clothes?
I bought some clothes at H&M last summer and wear them about once a week and they're still holding up fine.
Hell, I buy most of my clothes at Target and they last for years before I have to replace them.
What are you folks doing in your clothes that wears them out so fast?
I bought some clothes at H&M last summer and wear them about once a week and they're still holding up fine.
Hell, I buy most of my clothes at Target and they last for years before I have to replace them.
What are you folks doing in your clothes that wears them out so fast?
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