Has the Roddenberry Vision of " Trek " become an Anachronism?

[the skullcowboy]

First of all let me start off by saying I, like most here, LOVE ST and the ST universe canon and non...that said...Let's look at ST without the rose-colored glasses, its a " feel good-best case " future where the good guys always win and never cross the line, granted when TOS came out that was the formula for success, even TNG time was right for that kind of show but in later years the more popular sci-fi shows are those that are dark,brooding and have deeply flawed " hero's/heroine's "

I am personally and probably alone in thinking that if ST has a future on broadcast TV it will need to re-tool, DS9 tried this but as near as they came they never crossed the line and in the end the "good guy " was able to sleep at night and the next episode all was well in the universe again.

Trek needs to " Boldly Go " into areas that were once Taboo for it, this way it can once again thrive and reclaim the greatness it held...in my mind its either this or we resign ourselves to the fact that Trek will be a safe,flavorless
saturday morning kids show with cool effects and no substance... but hey what do I know?

I am sure there will be a great many here who will pounce on this and pick it apart but please bear in mind, this is just my opinion and I had the Grumba's to voice it even though it is just a minority voice...thank you all for reading this and for your posts in reply...until then...Shaka...when the walls fell

 

[Subcommander R.]

Personally I think DS9 already ruined the Roddenberry format. They went to a dystopian serial.

Precedent has already been broken. My only hope is that a new project won't be edgy/dark/gritty merely for the sake of being the same as every other modern show, but would let that be a side-effect of telling interesting character stories.

 

[doublegoodprole]

What is your very first thought when you think..."Star Trek"?

I think of the TOS Enterprise in an establishing shot, moving into orbit of some unknown planet.

I like TNG and I like DS9--and even the other spinoffs to a lesser extent. Of course I do! I'm a sci-fi fan. But sci-fi is a fairly marginalized genre when it comes to being taken seriously. The fans want deep, meaningful Star Trek. They want "All Good Things" and "In The Pale Moonlight."

But what would a network audience want? What would entertain them? Bajoran world building? Civil war in the Klingon Empire? No. They want fun adventure stories where Kirk and Spock kick ass and take names.

Serialized shows like Lost are the exception to the rule when it comes to success--look at the fate of all its clones. And Star Trek is no Lost. No one could honestly make that claim. While the new movie went a long way towards rehabilitating Trek's image as cheese, it also set a standard that post-1987 Roddenberry Trek can no longer meet.

So in a way, Roddenberry's Trek will live on; but it will not be his vision of the 24th century that takes Star Trek into the future. The "prime universe" now only exists in literature, in the minds of true fans. Trek has been rebooted and we need to let the past go. Embrace it, even.

It might be fun.

 

[ngc7293]

First of all let me start off by saying I, like most here, LOVE ST and the ST universe canon and non...that said...Let's look at ST without the rose-colored glasses, its a " feel good-best case " future where the good guys always win and never cross the line, granted when TOS

If you truly love Star Trek you will remember that Kirk FREQUENTLY crossed the line. There is that little thing called the Prime Directive and he quoted them and threw them out the window.
Balance of Terror might be another "cross the line". I won't explain the ep. since everyone knows about it

came out that was the formula for success, even TNG time was right for that kind of show

TNG also crossed the line when it too threw the prime directive out the window.

need to re-tool, DS9 tried this but as near as they came they never crossed the line and in

I think it is possible you are being vague with "cross the line"
It is just a suggestion, but could you please be more specific and don't use other shows as examples?

 

[Kirkman1987]

No. Trek doesn't need to change it's core values, and the mainstream doesn't want dark and edgy trek.

Trek on TV failed because of bad writing and reduced quality. The new film's massive success proves that audiences really just want a fun space adventure.

And that's not a problem. Star Trek started out as an adventure series, and managed to have plenty of substance. The film gets some slack imo because Trek films have always been more about action and characters then the deeper sci-fi themes of the shows.

I just think if you take away Trek's optimism, It's not Star Trek anymore. That's what makes Trek unique. Heck, dark sci-fi is not a new trend. Planet of the apes, Soylent Green and going all the way back to The Twilight Zone for television, Dark sci-fi has been commonplace.

 

[the skullcowboy]

First of all let me start off by saying I, like most here, LOVE ST and the ST universe canon and non...that said...Let's look at ST without the rose-colored glasses, its a " feel good-best case " future where the good guys always win and never cross the line, granted when TOS

If you truly love Star Trek you will remember that Kirk FREQUENTLY crossed the line. There is that little thing called the Prime Directive and he quoted them and threw them out the window.
Balance of Terror might be another "cross the line". I won't explain the ep. since everyone knows about it

came out that was the formula for success, even TNG time was right for that kind of show

TNG also crossed the line when it too threw the prime directive out the window.

need to re-tool, DS9 tried this but as near as they came they never crossed the line and in

I think it is possible you are being vague with "cross the line"
It is just a suggestion, but could you please be more specific and don't use other shows as examples?

I'm not talking about the Prime Directive line, I am talking about taking actions that they deeply regret for less than selfless purposes, each time the prime directive is broken * cough every other show cough * its still " for the greater good " and all works out in the end

what I am suggesting by " crossing the line " is a less than rosy approach to a particular event, we all have things we regret in our lives, people we have hurt, situations we could have avoided but did not, it just seems to me that this is never reflected in the ST universe, less bubblegum and lollipops and a bit more realism...though I guess its ironic to ask for realism in a sci-fi universe
in summary I believe the REAL starfleet/ufp would be more Section 31 and less optimistic/cloy...but again this is just my feeling on the subject

 

[Xerxes1979]

Sci-Fi is dead on tv along with many others genres that are chasing ever fewer number of availble production dollars.

I rather keep the franchise pure than spoil it on something that will probably fail anyways.

 

[BlobVanDam]

Precedent has already been broken. My only hope is that a new project won't be edgy/dark/gritty merely for the sake of being the same as every other modern show, but would let that be a side-effect of telling interesting character stories.

This. Roddenberry's vision was a bit too optimistic, but you can have a positive future while still having conflict and flawed characters. But I don't think it needs to become like every other show and go for edgy and gritty. It can go darker without losing that vision. But I don't want to see it turn into Star Trek Universe, or Star Trek Galactica.

 

[Xerxes1979]

Was Roddenberry really utopian in all things? His ideas were turned into Andromeda and Earth Final Conflict, albeit after his death.

 

[Subcommander R.]

Was Roddenberry really utopian in all things? His ideas were turned into Andromeda and Earth Final Conflict, albeit after his death.

Not necessarily. But Star Trek was. It had always been about utopian approaches to very real problems.

 

[Nightdiamond]

Lately, you can see on the internet (including various threads on this site), debates about sexuality, race, money and warfare etc. in the Star Trek universe.


I think fans sort of sat still and simply enjoyed when TOS and TNG was on, but mid DS9 and late 90's, things got stirred up a bit.

Now, it's no longer as simple as being fascinated by a new alien or an android.

 

[Aldo]

I think what ultimately turned off many fans is that Trek was too episodic. The dreaded "reset button," so to speak. Sure that's fine for a television show in the sixties. Heck most television was like that back then, all the problems were wrapped up in an hour (or a half hour, depending on the show) and the next episode everyone started at square one.

This approach to storytelling was still ongoing during the 80s when TNG appeared, so that's why that show got away with it. But in the 90s television was becoming more serial in nature (not all shows mind you), and Trek's outdated approach to storytelling did it no favors.

I don't think Trek's problem is that it's not gritty. I rather like the idea that in the future mankind has evolved past most of the problems that plague us today. My problem with modern Trek (DS9 excluded) is that in an era of serial television Trek was still doing the episodic thing.

 

[Xerxes1979]

You can still do stand alone tv. Law and Order is all self contained and that stuff has gotten good ratings for years and years.

 

[Aldo]

You can still do stand alone tv. Law and Order is all self contained and that stuff has gotten good ratings for years and years.

True, but Law and Order (and most procedural shows) has never really been about the characters. They are just ciphers set up to tell a story. Sure we get the odd insight into there lives here and there, but you could plug anyone into any of those shows and still tell the same stories (which Law and Order has been doing for over 20 years).

However with a show that is about it's characters as much as it is about the storys, you kind of want to see some growth to those characters. If I had spent a whole lifetime as someone else and then realized it was all a fabrication (I believe Picard had that happen in a TNG episode), I'd want to see how that character deals with coming to terms with that.

 

[Sci]

Personally I think DS9 already ruined the Roddenberry format. They went to a dystopian serial.

Please. Read some real dystopian works like Nineteen Eighty-Four or Brave New World or Fahrenheit 451 or The Handmaiden's Tale and then tell me with a straight face that Star Trek: Deep Space Nine was a dystopia just because it didn't present an idealized future.

 

[Nightdiamond]

TNG was kind of heavy on the Utopia and Technology, especially in the earlier episodes.

I think that was what they particularly wanted to express.

You can tell, because they made it a point say things like 'a long time ago people used to watch a thing called TV' , or 'we don't use money anymore,' thing.

It was also the late 80's, so technology was very impressive to the eyes-computers, robotics, digital electronics were considered fascinating.

DS9, VOY, and Ent seemed less interested in the Tech part, because it was more common by then.

Fans were once fascinated by Data. Introduce an android on a Sci Fi show today, it's no big deal.

 

[Myasishchev]

What is your very first thought when you think..."Star Trek"?

Love instructors.

 

[C.E. Evans]

While I think you can dissect to pieces what Roddenberry's vision is based on various episodes and movies, I think essentially it's just that Humans will no longer judge each other by their race, sex, religion, etc., and we'll move on to bigger and better things in the future. Our best days are ahead of us.

I think that's timeless, IMO...

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

What is your very first thought when you think..."Star Trek"?

I think of the TOS Enterprise in an establishing shot, moving into orbit of some unknown planet...

...But what would a network audience want? What would entertain them? Bajoran world building? Civil war in the Klingon Empire? No. They want fun adventure stories where Kirk and Spock kick ass and take names...

...The "prime universe" now only exists in literature, in the minds of true fans. Trek has been rebooted and we need to let the past go.

Absolutely Right(TM).

 

[Paradon]

Trek failed to portray some of the simple humans side of the story. I think that's why it failed to draw in new crowd. Things like sex, having relationship, family, good food, and friends is all part of normal human life. They act like people in the future consider these kinds of feeling petty and vile. People do have emotional breakdown and lust over a girl or guy.... It's kindda snobby and look down on it. Like it or not we all talk trash about other people and do some stupid stuff. Sometimes I make fun of my sister being weight challenge, but she doesn't take me seriously because she knows it's a joke. It's not like people are going to kill someone just because someone say something they didn't like. True courage is being able to let some of the nasty stuff people say about you and let it slide without getting too wrapped up. People will always say stuff and do stuff.