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Picard's Nexus was all wrong in "Generations"

ColeMercury

Lieutenant Commander
Red Shirt
I think "Generations" is an okay movie overall, but very uneven in quality from beginning to end. The 23rd-Century prologue on the Enterprise-B has some serious flaws. The 24th-Century plot is pretty damn good, but it loses some punch when it becomes "we have to save the 230 million alien cavemen we never see". Kirk's death is not the best of all possible deaths (his "death" in the prologue was actually a lot more fitting than the one he got at the end) but it was decent enough given the context. However, where the film really goes off the rails is Picard's vision of the Nexus.

It just doesn't fit with his character at all. A Victorian English home on Christmas with a family of formal little children in formal dress? Ugh. No. Wrong.

Let's leave aside the "He's not English, he's French" objection (it's not that important) and address the "Victorian" part. Jean-Luc Picard was never one to look back to the past as an ideal or a golden age. That was Robert Picard's thing -- Jean-Luc Picard always looked ahead to the future, which is why he left the vinyard and joined Starfleet. He was interested in the past, but looked to the future. If Picard ever desired a home life, it would be a 24th-Century home life and not a 19th-Century one.

Speaking of which, all that damn formality. Picard is formal as a captain, but that's because he's acting as a captain. He's doing a job and he's being professional about it -- he captains a starship of over a thousand people and he's serious about his duties, because they're duties. He's not like that all the time, and we see him cut loose several times in the series. If the Nexus is supposed to be a place of absolute joy, then Picard wouldn't need to be stiff and formal and neither would his children.

And then there's the issue of Picard's vision of paradise being some domestic setting at all rather than a starship. Well, there was actually a way of making this fit with Picard's character and history: he almost decided to become an archaeologist instead of pursuing a career in Starfleet when he was young, so they could've made his Nexus a vision of what could have been (much like Kirk's was based on him staying with Antonia). But, of course, they didn't.
 
I think it's just for the traditional Christmas he'd desire all that, the other 364 days of the year he'd have a more routine existance.

Or maybe he was always envious of his elder brother having his ancestral home.

He had of course just lost his brother and nephew - no more Picards. At a time like that you would wish you'd done things differently, that you had heirs.
 
Yeah Picard`s Nexus fantasy was based on his current feelings regarding the loss of his brother and nephew. It was overcompensating for his regret not having a family so it was correct for the themes and motifs that his character arc was going through. If it was true to his character I would have included Beverly as his wife.
 
Yeah Picard`s Nexus fantasy was based on his current feelings regarding the loss of his brother and nephew. It was overcompensating for his regret not having a family so it was correct for the themes and motifs that his character arc was going through.

Exactly. The death of this brother and nephew were fresh on his mind, and Jean-Luc was regretting that he will apparently be the last of the Picards. It was clear that, in the back of his mind, he was fantasizing of a life in which he had a family. And Picard did have something of a luddite streak in him and a fascination with the past.
 
Yes, I agree. Picard's Nexus fantasy was all wrong, for all the reasons you mentioned. I recall my "Huh??" when I first saw it.

And then we got Kirk's Nexus fantasy, and it also was an even bigger "HUH??"

Both times with both men, I don't get it.

Knowing these men as we do, and prior to GEN, would any of us imagine "a log cabin and Antonia(?) for Kirk" and "a very Dickens Christmas with children and mystery wife for Picard"?

Or was GEN supposed to be the thing that changed everything for these two guys?
 
The point in both cases is that the Nexus represents a retreat from reality and the passage of time. Both characters are removed from any context that has much to do with either the passage of time or the lives they chose to lead - Picard is literally in a perpetual holiday, and Kirk's cabin and apparent daily routine could exist without much variation any time within a period of centuries.
 
Patrick Stewart for a time had a one man show of Charles Dickens, A Christmas Carol. I wonder if one had something to do with another. If Stewart asked (or demanded) that Picard's life fantasy be of that time period.
 
It's been a while since I've listened to it but, in the audio commentary on the DVD/Blu-Ray, Ron Moore and Brannon Braga basically admit they did the best they could at the time but ended up biting off a bit more than they could chew (my words, not theirs).

Moore wishes that they had done a Roman orgy type of thing for Picard's Nexus fantasy but, as expected, the Powers That Be were completely against the idea; Braga says the daughter saying, "Merry Christmas, Papa!" makes him want to throw up; and both writers make fun of the portrait of Picard's ancestor which is so obviously Photoshopped. :)

As for Kirk, both writers admit that the only place he should've died was on the bridge of his ship.

The fantasy works in the context of the film (thoughts of family, what could've been, and all that) and it works for me, though I agree with the posters above that said his wife should've been Beverly.
 
The fantasy works in the context of the film (thoughts of family, what could've been, and all that) and it works for me, though I agree with the posters above that said his wife should've been Beverly.

That would have been great, because it would have expounded upon "All Good Things..." Oh, and it would have given Gates McFadden something to do.
 
I'm surprised that Moore and Braga (maybe I shouldn't be) didn't think of Crusher when writing the Nexus scene for Jean-Luc. Beverly has always been the unrequited love of his life and would still fit into his feelings about not having a family. I've always felt that was a lost opportunity.

As for Kirk's fantasy...that was another bungle. Creating a generic woman, someone totally new who the fans don't give a rat's ass about was stupid in my opinion. Ultimately Kirk's fantasy would have been Edith Keeler...casting Joan Collins as an aged Edith would have been awesome! It would have also made Picard's convincing job even more difficult as Jim would have been torn once again between duty and the love of his life. I think it would have given a lot more emotional pull to both of the scenes.
 
The fantasy works in the context of the film (thoughts of family, what could've been, and all that) and it works for me, though I agree with the posters above that said his wife should've been Beverly.
.

Perhaps in that fantasy its just that Jack Crusher never died. I think Picard would be too fond of Wesley to have wished him never born (Picard winning Beverly instead of Jack).

Mindyou Im distracted by the fact Tom Hardy looks more like Wil Weaton than Patrick in Nemesis to the point I'd question Wesley's true parentage :D

As for Kirk, well that was limited by the fact McCoy and Spock couldn't be there. I think the novel did have them off on adventures before he met up with Picard.

Would it have been better if it had been Carol Marcus instead of the unseen Antonia, or if David still lived?
 
As I said I think the Nexus is supposed to reflect your deepest desires and we all know that Kirk's one true love from the series was Edith Keeler. I never really saw Jim wanting a relationship with Carol. He sacrificed having one for his career in Starfleet after all. Edith just brings a much better emotional dynamic. Picard would be like where the fuck am I...it's like the 1960's or something and Jim and Edith are married with grand kids, you see their portraits on the fire place mantle still. Or maybe in this fantasy Kirk was able to save Edith and bring her back with him. I dunno which one works best. Carol is fine but Edith is his true love.
 
As for Kirk's fantasy...that was another bungle. Creating a generic woman, someone totally new who the fans don't give a rat's ass about was stupid in my opinion.

I think your opinion is correct.:)

Ultimately Kirk's fantasy would have been Edith Keeler...casting Joan Collins as an aged Edith would have been awesome!

There's no way in hell that Joan Collins would have reprised her role. But it wouldn't have mattered, because all they had to do was change the unseen woman's name from Antonia to Edith. It would have been a miniscule change, and the casual moviegoing audience wouldn't have picked up on it or even cared. But the Trek fanbase would have picked up the reference right away. All the Trekkies in the theater would have gone "Ooohh, ahhhhh," and all the normal people would have looked at them in confusion for about 5 seconds:p
 
all they had to do was change the unseen woman's name from Antonia to Edith. It would have been a miniscule change, and the casual moviegoing audience wouldn't have picked up on it or even cared. But the Trek fanbase would have picked up the reference right away. All the Trekkies in the theater would have gone "Ooohh, ahhhhh," and all the normal people would have looked at them in confusion for about 5 seconds:p

That would have been all kinds of awesome. What a missed chance.
 
Exactly. The death of this brother and nephew were fresh on his mind, and Jean-Luc was regretting that he will apparently be the last of the Picards.
I wonder why Picard just assumed that the death of his brother and nephew automatically meant the end of the Picards. I know Picard had not had a family up to that point, but that's not to say that he never could. He was certainly young enough to still have children by modern standards, let alone by standards of extended 24th century lifespans. There was still plenty of opportunity for Picard to have a child.
 
^ He was still stricken with grief and no where near contemplating having a family at that time or any other time. It was a natural feeling for him to have thinking his line would not continue. I still wander what Marie is doing. Probably still maintaining the vineyard maybe?

Yeah just mentioning Edith would have been enough for me, afterall they never actually showed Antonia except for the woman on the horseback.
 
Not in Kirk's fantasy. Sigh. People's imaginations are so limiting. This is Kirk's fantasy...therefor none of that would have happened. The Nexus would have compensated for the Nazi victory thing if Edith survived. This would be purely an alternate fantasy where Kirk and Keeler are married in the prime timeline (for lack of a better word) where Kirk was able to save her without altering the future.
 
I'm guessing captrek's response was a joking reference to Kruge's similar line in TSFS about the "flag of the Federation," and not totally serious but I could be wrong.
 
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