Picard's Nexus was all wrong in "Generations"

[Admiral_Young]

It seemed serious to me...but if it wasn't...fair enough. I thought I had made it clear in my previous post prior to his that this would be a fantasy where Kirk not only saved Edith but also prevented the Nazi uprising somehow. It doesn't really matter. The fantasy is specific to just having Edith in it.

 

[Captrek]

sonak is correct.

 

[Timo]

I know Picard had not had a family up to that point, but that's not to say that he never could.

I think it was Phil Farrand who already pointed out in the Nitpicker's Guides that Picard had once been part of a bunch that was described by divine sources as "neither man nor woman". Perhaps turning him into Locutus meant an end to his ability to bear children the conventional way, and he was in no mood for DNA trickery? *)

It's of course perfectly possible that Picard always was incapable of having children. But this "always" probably ought to begin after the birth of Jason Vigo (2347), whom Picard almost accepted as his accidental son.

Timo Saloniemi

*) That is, Seska claims she used DNA sampled from Chakotay in impregnating herself. Might mean it's a technology that bypasses sperm, might merely be an euphemism for the type of sample she took.

 

[sonak]

I don't think Farrand's view is supposed to be canon, though.


I think Picard's overall point though was that he had no intention of being a family man, so although yes, technically it was up to him, he wasn't planning on having children of his own, as he was committed to the "Starfleet wandering explorer" lifestyle.

Besides, having children out of a sense of responsibility to your family line would probably not be a great idea.

 

[Admiral_Young]

Yeah Picard was career Starfleet. It's interesting that "Tapestry" also showed an alternate timeline where Picard acted on a regretted past "longing" when he slept with Marta. That got him no where as he learned.

 

[Captrek]

Go to bed with J. C. Brandy, wake up with John DeLancie.

 

[Admiral_Young]

@captrek...apologies for my response. I wasn't getting the joke lol.

 

[Captrek]

As I said I think the Nexus is supposed to reflect your deepest desires and we all know that Kirk's one true love from the series was Edith Keeler. I never really saw Jim wanting a relationship with Carol. He sacrificed having one for his career in Starfleet after all. Edith just brings a much better emotional dynamic. Picard would be like where the fuck am I...it's like the 1960's or something and Jim and Edith are married with grand kids, you see their portraits on the fire place mantle still. Or maybe in this fantasy Kirk was able to save Edith and bring her back with him. I dunno which one works best. Carol is fine but Edith is his true love.

Kirk told us where his Nexus should have been: “I’m happy and peaceful here. I’m not sure, but I think I’ve never felt that way before.” On Amerind with Miramanee.

 

[sonak]

As I said I think the Nexus is supposed to reflect your deepest desires and we all know that Kirk's one true love from the series was Edith Keeler. I never really saw Jim wanting a relationship with Carol. He sacrificed having one for his career in Starfleet after all. Edith just brings a much better emotional dynamic. Picard would be like where the fuck am I...it's like the 1960's or something and Jim and Edith are married with grand kids, you see their portraits on the fire place mantle still. Or maybe in this fantasy Kirk was able to save Edith and bring her back with him. I dunno which one works best. Carol is fine but Edith is his true love.

Kirk told us where his Nexus should have been: “I’m happy and peaceful here. I’m not sure, but I think I’ve never felt that way before.” On Amerind with Miramanee.

well first off he wasn't "himself" there. Second, Kirk's NOT the type to be peacefully, happily stagnating somewhere(just look at his reaction in "this side of paradise.")

Kirk's a guy who enjoys being on the bridge of a starship, making a difference. Of course, that doesn't work for the nexus fantasy, because the fantasy has to present a CONTRAST for him to be tempted by, before he decides to go back with Picard.

 

[Gaith]

Well, maybe the Nexus "wants" its inhabitants to never leave? And to do so, it makes them forget who they are as much as possible... Ergo, it takes vague, emotional desires (family, an earthy, work-filled retirement) and creates scenarios based on those tones rather than facts or specific memories. The Nexus thus doesn't care about Edith Keeler or archeological history, and it certainly doesn't want its captures thinking very much, or brushing up against an uncanny valley effect.

Makes sense to moi...

 

[Gaith]

I take it y'all agree with my fabulous explanation, then...

(Not so much fishing for compliments here as I actually am curious as to people's take on this theory.)

 

[ColeMercury]

Maybe it's going too far to say the Nexus "wants" anything -- it's never really shown that it's sentient or conscious. I guess maybe it works like that -- through "vague, emotional desires" -- simply because that's what it "reads" in the minds of its inhabitants as the perfect way to create the "like being inside joy" feeling. In other words, your way of describing how the Nexus works sounds plausible, but I wouldn't go so far as to give it a motive.

Thing is, Kirk's own Nexus scenario did involve a specific memory: the cabin with Antonia, and the what-could-have-been with Kirk staying out of Starfleet and marrying her. I brought up the archaeology thing with Picard because that could've been a comparable scenario with him (instead of the ridiculous Victorian Christmas thing).

 

[Ssosmcin]

Picard's Nexus fantasy should have involved him strapping a saddle on Beverly while Wesley hung from the top of the Christmas tree.

No wait, that was my fantasy.

I actually was okay with the Victorian Christmas. It sure beats a Space Christmas with a Space Tree and Space Gifts. Picard might not be "nostalgic" but he is a traditionalist. And yeah, Beverly should have been there. Then add a knowing glace from him to her at the end, resulting in Bev being cheerfully confused. Just a little hint that Picard realizes his feelings still exist and maybe he'll follow up.

Kirk's fantasy? Mostly I don't mind what we were given, but the horses were such blatant Shatner ass-kissing that it stuck out. Aside from Trek V (again, Shatner and his obsession), Kirk and horses didn't seem like a good fit. Or his uncle's barn in "Idaho." Now it's obvious "Idaho" was looped, but if they're gonna loop it, why not stick with "Iowa?"

Would it have been better as Edith instead of Antonia? Yes, but any familiar woman would have worked better. Carol Marcus would have worked because she was most recent and it would make sense that he blew a second chance because of a recall to duty. But I would have also been fine with "Ruth." I draw the line at Miramanee, though.

 

[sonak]

what about that woman who turned out to be an android from "requiem for methuselah?"


would that have been an ok choice for a Kirk nexus fantasy for you?

 

[Ssosmcin]

Rayna? Jeez, no. I wish I could forget. So, let me amend my statement to "almost any familiar woman would work better than Antonia."

 

[Peach Wookiee]

A thought about the woman in the Nexus.... She was a redhead... Perhaps an alternate Beverly without destroying the Crushers.

 

[Admiral_Young]

Yeah I guess we could take Antonia and the redhead as idealized versions of women the two were attracted to. I dunno. Antonia just seemed made up for the sake of making someone up for Kirk.

 

[Peach Wookiee]

Darn, I should've clarified.. But who the hell was Antonia? We had no idea about her!

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Picard's Nexus fantasy should have involved him strapping a saddle on Beverly

Then Picard's a copycat. That's MY fantasy...