Babylon 5 and O'Hare's departure.

[Pauln6]

I'd like to chime in about the actors and say that Julie Caitlin Brown's performance as Na'Toth was brilliant too. It's such a shame that she developed an allergy to the make-up.

I didn't know that Andrea was signed for 13 episodes per season but I think she only appeared in 7 per season. I think that was a mistake - they could have developed a proper love triangle with Garibaldi and Ivanova at a much more leisurely pace. They were worried about the bisexual angle at the time but the actresses were well up for it. Who knows, maybe lesbian sex scenes would have been all it took to keep them both on board! I also recall that Andrea did a lot of work on JAG and some other legal drama at the time so there was tv work out there for her.

I think the stuff about Lyta and Talia being in the show together was from an interview although I'd take it with a pinch of salt. JMS seems rather ruthless with his characters, possibly born out of frustration when his overarching plot is disrupted. I loved all the mystery surrounding Lyta and the Vorlons in season 3 but she only appeared in two episodes. This is why I think if both characters had stayed around, Lyta's role would have been much smaller, especially if Ivanova had been the one to have the affair with Byron.

 

[Jan]

Oh, no doubt about it, JMS is quite ruthless with his characters, regardless of what the actor might or might have done. He's commented before that he likes to evoke a feeling in the audience that they're on a runaway train and that anything could happen. He did it with B5 and also on Jeremiah and I inagine he'll do it again in the future.

Jan

 

[RandyS]

Isn't there a blooper were Garibaldi deadpans re Hague 'He's over on DS9'?

Actually it was Major Ryan (Bruce McGill) who did that. You can find it on YouTube.

Season 3 bloopers at 5:56.

Or more direct clip.

Yep, that's the one I remember.

 

[Reverend]

Oh, no doubt about it, JMS is quite ruthless with his characters, regardless of what the actor might or might have done. He's commented before that he likes to evoke a feeling in the audience that they're on a runaway train and that anything could happen. He did it with B5 and also on Jeremiah and I inagine he'll do it again in the future.

Jan

Bah! Joe's a teddy bear with his characters compared to Joss Whedon. Now there's a man who knows how to put an audience on edge as to who's going to die next!

Still, I have a feeling had Crusade gotten as far as season two, Trace Miller might have had a nasty accident in the dry cleaners along with the grey uniforms. That guy had "Keffer clone" written all over him.

 

[chrisspringob]

I don't know if there's anything about this in the script books, but JMS once implied in a web post that there was a planned plot to revive Marcus in season 5 that depended on Ivanova.

It does seem that at some point Marcus was indeed planned to appear in Crusade. Why he didn't hasn't been covered yet (only one of the Crusade books has come out yet) but one possibility is that TNT didn't want any of the original cast around despite the fact that it was a sequel.

Well, as the script books show, JMS's proposed spinoff show, "Babylon 5: Rangers" would have included about half the cast of the original series, and that concept gradually morphed into "Crusade", with the concept gradually shedding elements that tied it to the original series.

First it was a show that would have included Sheridan, Delenn, G'Kar, Marcus, Zathras, then it was down to Marcus and Zathras, then it didn't include any B5 cast members, but was still about the Rangers, then it ditched the Ranger concept entirely. (OK, maybe I have the order on that off, but it was something like that.)

IIRC, WB was pushing to tone down the connections to B5 early on, then there was some kind of complex tug of war with both WB and TNT about how much of a connection to B5 there would be. Like "No, you can't have an episode set on B5", then "Oh, of course you can have an episode on B5, as we already have the sets for that", etc.

Also, in that JMS post quoted above, JMS gets the date of that memo wrong, as the script books show that it was written much earlier. (By June 1998, he'd already written a first draft of "Racing the Night", and Marcus had long been out of the picture re: Crusade.) In the Crusade script book, in reference to Marcus's intended inclusion in the Crusade cast, we have the sentence:

"In addition to these, there were Zathras and Marcus Cole, a character whose fate was still fluid in the early days of Babylon 5's first season."

Which makes sense, since this memo was actually written in September 1996, before the end of Season 4 was written. Maybe JMS had intended to include Marcus in Crusade, and only killed him off on B5 after WB told him no, he couldn't be used in Crusade.

That doesn't quite mesh with his statement that "the Claudia situation" threw a wrench into using Marcus, but he might be misremembering the details. I mean, he did write that post seven years after the fact, and he got the date wrong on the memo, so anything's possible.

 

[Silvercrest]

It also doesn't make much sense for him to use Zathras. But he might have meant Zathras, instead.

 

[Jan]

It also doesn't make much sense for him to use Zathras. But he might have meant Zathras, instead.

At one point it was Mathras because he didn't want to have to try to explain the whole thing.

Jan

 

[David cgc]

That doesn't quite mesh with his statement that "the Claudia situation" threw a wrench into using Marcus, but he might be misremembering the details. I mean, he did write that post seven years after the fact, and he got the date wrong on the memo, so anything's possible.

Maybe I misinterpreted what he meant, and it wasn't that reviving Marcus would've required Ivanova in season 5 for story reasons, but the contract dispute made the studio gun-shy about retaining actors long-term.

 

[JoeD80]

I'm not sure of the timing but I *think* I'd even read that O'Hare did his first conventions after the split had been agreed on and was a wonderful ambassador for the show.

He did ComicCon during season one, but also continued doing conventions up til the end of the show.

Marcus' death was meant to set up Ivanova to have a rebound romance with Byron (which is why there's a superficial resemblance between them) which would have caused a lot of dramatic tension when things with the teeps spun out of control and she'd have had to call Bester, wouldn't it?

That's the one scene I really wish Ivanova had been around for; after almost killing Bester earlier in the show in season three, then having her latent telepathy come to the surface by Byron in season five and in the end having to be the one to bring in Bester against telepaths would bring her story full circle.

And for those wondering how he could be revived, a line in the episode was cut indicating that he was put into cryogenic suspension at a moment between life and death.

Also, Joe had promised Jason that his character never would be killed after a practical joke in season 3; so he had to freeze him instead.

I always figured that if Andrea Thompson didn't leave the show there would be no sleeper-program twist, that the whole thing was invented for the sole purpose of getting Talia off the station and out of the show.

Joe said that the twist would have come about around the time of the Messages from Earth/Point of No Return episodes.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

I'm not sure of the timing but I *think* I'd even read that O'Hare did his first conventions after the split had been agreed on and was a wonderful ambassador for the show.

He did ComicCon during season one, but also continued doing conventions up til the end of the show.

O'Hare did San Diego Comic Con the summer before the first season premier along with Jerry Doyle, Andrea Thompson, Harlan Ellison and, of course, JMS.

I was there and it was a blast.

 

[Starkers]

Well got my season 2 DVD through yesterday and started watching! Wow, I mean I always remembered really liked Sheridan, but it may be that I have to get used to him being around! His in your face hell yeah'ness is kinda jarring after the thoughtful O'Hare!

 

[Admiral_Young]

The differences between Sinclair and Sheridan is pretty apparent when you see the season two premiere. I had just started watching "Babylon 5" (on a regular must watch basis) near the end on it's first season and remember thinking oh wow they changed their lead!!

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

At the time, I took it that since the lead character changed but his initials did not (JS) that this was JMS's way of indicating that the network had demanded the change. That's how it seemed to me, anyhow.

 

[Aeon]

Well got my season 2 DVD through yesterday and started watching! Wow, I mean I always remembered really liked Sheridan, but it may be that I have to get used to him being around! His in your face hell yeah'ness is kinda jarring after the thoughtful O'Hare!

But that changed in time, didn't it?

 

[Starkers]

Well I hope so, I seem to recall he quietens down a bit.

 

[Aeon]

I remember JMS saying somewhere that he first wanted to introduce this cheery and somewhat eccentric fellow who didn't have a worry in his little world (except maybe the lack of oranges) because after a while that guy would go through a meat grinder.

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

I think he cheered up when he got busy nuking things again.

 

[JoeD80]

At the time, I took it that since the lead character changed but his initials did not (JS) that this was JMS's way of indicating that the network had demanded the change. That's how it seemed to me, anyhow.

The reason he used JS was because it stands for Joe Straczynski, a way of "signing his work" as he put it. That's also why Garibaldi's name is Michael, Joe's middle name.

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

At the time, I took it that since the lead character changed but his initials did not (JS) that this was JMS's way of indicating that the network had demanded the change. That's how it seemed to me, anyhow.

The reason he used JS was because it stands for Joe Straczynski, a way of "signing his work" as he put it. That's also why Garibaldi's name is Michael, Joe's middle name.

Thanks for the information, which isn't really related to my comment.

 

[Neroon]

It seems to me be related, unless I misunderstand your original comment's intent. JoeD80's comment was merely explaining the actual reason behind using the initials to clear up any potential misperceptions for others, not necessarily you. It's an explanation I have heard myself from other locations. Personally, until I heard that explanation years ago I just thought it was just a little way of having fun more than anything else, but then I could be rather naive in the ways of television studios.