Time Crack is stupid

[DWF]

Okay but my point is that you've not linked or provided the issue for the quote. I'm not claiming that he didn't say it.

It should be in issue #424 and I got the info Gallifrey Base you could tr finding that issue to confirm it, but the content of the interview itself isn't online.

 

[Admiral_Young]

Cool. The comic shop has back issues of DWM...I'll try looking for it.

 

[starsuperion]

I know this makes me a heretic for saying this but... I am okay with time being rewritten...

however, the events like the doctor working for unit and major things like that must remain..

 

[Sci]

Amy not remembering the Dalek attack was never fully explained. The Doctor replied that it was impossible for her not to remember that...but then recall what happened to Donna when he wiped her memories. He said to Sylvia and Wilf that it will become one of those things that she missed. It's possible that the town of Leadsworth was unaffected by the Dalek invasion, it's been described as the town time forgot.

It was 8:00 AM on a Saturday morning in England when the Earth was teleported to the Medusa Cascade. Even if Dalek forces never reached Leadworth, they would have noticed that day was suddenly night and that there were dozens of planets in the sky, with no Moon to be seen.

However, I don't think this erasure extends to the portions of Series Five set at other points in history. I don't think the Time Cracks, post-"Big Bang," are still present in any of the stories set in other eras (such as "Flesh and Stone"), but I do suspect that their effects persist even without their presence, in the same way that the effects of Amy's parents' lives still persisted (i.e., Amy's continued existence, Amy's continued presence in the Pond house) even after they were erased from time. Cause-less effects.

And that's what's so unbelievably stupid about it. Cause-less events? If your parents are erased from history, then you never existed. If a car smashed into you and killed you, and then that car is erased from existence, it never hit you, and you carry on living. It's that simple.

Is it really any more stupid than any other temporal paradox, though?

 

[Admiral_Young]

^ EJA just hates it because it seems to disrupt his own personal continuity which obvious includes Jackson Lake, etc. Trying to convince him that what happened probably didn't effect those people's memories is proving to be an impossible task. If anyone else wants to step up to the plate...feel free!

 

[The Mirrorball Man]

Does Jackson Lake still remember meeting the Doctor and the Cybermen now then?

If it serves the story, he remembers the Doctor, if it serves a different story, he doesn't.

 

[starsuperion]

I think that once the time crack subsided, the past events of the Cybermen, daleks invasion of the Earth and such were all voided.. as the new rebooted universe is now an alternate time line.. "jj Abrams" style..

all the historical events did happen, and the doctor does remember them being an out of time time traveler, only the universe has been rewritten, and so we may see a new rebooted relationship with UNIT, and or a new history of earth, which negates many past events.. like the dalek invasion of earth, the stolen earth and so on..

since the time lords are also complicated time events and their existence was time locked they can still remain outside of the rebooted universe..

since the particles of the pandorica were remnants of the original universe, the reboot could have made things more normal, but some events may not have now taken place.. like the wiping of skarro from the map, hence the new dalek paradigm being able to be accessed on Skarro via the adventure games, and so on..

that is my theory anyhow.. whether fans like it or not.. if we see that past events are foreign to the Doctor's companions in this new season, It will confirm my suspicion..

the doctor will remember certain events that never happened, while others will not.. and vice verse..


one thing does perplex me..

since the Doctor's new rebooted universe was created without him.. and it took Amy pond to bring him into being..

does this then negate his whole past existence?? is Matt smith per this new rebooted universe, now the 1st doctor?? is it a big circle of events now?? hence the Moffat daleks resembling the original the 1st doctor encountered?? etc.. etc..


or can we chalk it up to that old familiar crutch phrase??

Wibbley wobbley, Timey wimey...

 

[Kelthaz]

And I'm sorry to have to say this, but if recent stories do indeed strongly imply that earlier ones now never happened, then I personally find it a bit hard to watch those earlier stories. Why bother, if they don't really amount to anything anymore? They become like Scream of the Shalka and Death Comes to Time - shadows with no substance. But that's just my opinion, one I'm sure a lot of people will disagree with.

I had to post this again, so people have a really good idea of what my feelings actually are.

This is a total distortion of my argument. I'm talking about the integrity of past stories. Some of us do actually care about fictional stories having an ounce of sense in them, believe it or not.

Thanks for clearing that up. Read this:

The Culture Alien

this fan often seems to have no Willing Suspension Of Disbelief, often leading him to criticize or refuse to accept plots, characters and themes that might be necessary or even essential for that show or genre to function. He often appears to be a member of a Periphery Demographic who cannot or does not wish to accept that the show is not actually aimed directly at him (if at all), and yet resents the fact that it is not actually aimed at him. Therefore, any complaints about how it's not aimed at him are legitimate complaints and considered "Weaknesses."

Abridged Version - A fan outside of the show's demographic who complains because the show isn't being directed at him.

There's nothing wrong with being part of a periphery demographic or disliking certain core elements of a show, but your utter inability to accept that Doctor Who is silly science fiction not concerned with technical details or rational explanations is baffling. It's like being a fan of Cheers and complaining about the show being set in a bar.

Doctor Who is stupid and nonsensical. Doctor Who wants to be stupid and nonsensical. Wibbly-Wobbly Timey Wimey is all the explanation Doctor Who intends or needs to supply. You don't have to like it, but you have accept it.

 

[Skellington]

since the Doctor's new rebooted universe was created without him.. and it took Amy pond to bring him into being..

does this then negate his whole past existence??

I doubt it very much, as the Time War didn't, and that seems to have changed the universe drastically in some ways.

 

[Butters]

the doctor will remember certain events that never happened, while others will not.. and vice verse..

I thought that was the case anyway. Temporal nexus and all that.

The Daleks live in isolation on a dead world, unknown to the Timelords till the Doctor bumps in to them, or, an unstoppable evil conquerors and foe of the Timelords. The Doctor sees both.

 

[Admiral_Young]

Again...I'll repeat myself, I do not believe the time crack was meant to be a literal reboot of the universe. The events that took place prior to it's existence still happened, the Doctor remembers them, and Amy remembered/willed the Doctor into being after the Big Bang II reset. If Moffat comes out himself and says that his intention was to reboot the series by using the crack/big bang then so be it. The fact is though that he has not, at least as far as I've read. We know that he dislikes or is using specific plot elements in his telling of this Doctor's adventures but that doesn't mean that the past has been altered. The point of "time can be rewritten" was not a literal rewriting but that nothing is fixed anymore. Fixed points seems to be something that RTD introduced to explain certain things required by plots, rewriting time seems to be Moffat's catch phrase for his Doctor. I don't think we're getting anywhere in this argument. We seem to be caught in a temporal causality loop.

 

[Sindatur]

Again...I'll repeat myself, I do not believe the time crack was meant to be a literal reboot of the universe. The events that took place prior to it's existence still happened, the Doctor remembers them, and Amy remembered/willed the Doctor into being after the Big Bang II reset. If Moffat comes out himself and says that his intention was to reboot the series by using the crack/big bang then so be it. The fact is though that he has not, at least as far as I've read. We know that he dislikes or is using specific plot elements in his telling of this Doctor's adventures but that doesn't mean that the past has been altered. The point of "time can be rewritten" was not a literal rewriting but that nothing is fixed anymore. Fixed points seems to be something that RTD introduced to explain certain things required by plots, rewriting time seems to be Moffat's catch phrase for his Doctor. I don't think we're getting anywhere in this argument. We seem to be caught in a temporal causality loop.

I beleive I read a quote in this thread (or another) that implied, you can't count on anything, if he wants to do a story, that conflicts with the past, he'll use the Time Crack to explain it away, otjherwise just keep on thinking nothing's changed (And this would also allow him to wink a nod at the "continuity religious", that if something conflicts with continuity, it's a clue)

 

[starsuperion]

The Culture Alien

this fan often seems to have no Willing Suspension Of Disbelief, often leading him to criticize or refuse to accept plots, characters and themes that might be necessary or even essential for that show or genre to function. He often appears to be a member of a Periphery Demographic who cannot or does not wish to accept that the show is not actually aimed directly at him (if at all), and yet resents the fact that it is not actually aimed at him. Therefore, any complaints about how it's not aimed at him are legitimate complaints and considered "Weaknesses."

Abridged Version - A fan outside of the show's demographic who complains because the show isn't being directed at him.

this whole phrase seems contrived by some hack writer who can't take negative fan feedback..

JJ Abrams, and Michael Bay's favorite writers roberto orci and that other guy come to mind..

 

[Sci]

The Culture Alien

this fan often seems to have no Willing Suspension Of Disbelief, often leading him to criticize or refuse to accept plots, characters and themes that might be necessary or even essential for that show or genre to function. He often appears to be a member of a Periphery Demographic who cannot or does not wish to accept that the show is not actually aimed directly at him (if at all), and yet resents the fact that it is not actually aimed at him. Therefore, any complaints about how it's not aimed at him are legitimate complaints and considered "Weaknesses."

Abridged Version - A fan outside of the show's demographic who complains because the show isn't being directed at him.

this whole phrase seems contrived by some hack writer who can't take negative fan feedback..

JJ Abrams, and Michael Bay's favorite writers roberto orci and that other guy come to mind..

You've never heard of TV Tropes?

 

[The Mirrorball Man]

this whole phrase seems contrived by some hack writer who can't take negative fan feedback..

JJ Abrams, and Michael Bay's favorite writers roberto orci and that other guy come to mind..

I think it sounds like it's been written by a well-adjusted person with a sense of perspective.

 

[EJA]

Assuming that the Cybermen in The Next Doctor are still erased after The Big Bang, my opinion is that Jackson Lake no longer remembers the Doctor or the Cybermen. Only time travellers can remember things that get unwritten from time, and Lake wasn't a time traveller.

 

[starsuperion]

since the Doctor's new rebooted universe was created without him.. and it took Amy pond to bring him into being..

does this then negate his whole past existence??

I doubt it very much, as the Time War didn't, and that seems to have changed the universe drastically in some ways.

this is true..

The Culture Alien

this fan often seems to have no Willing Suspension Of Disbelief, often leading him to criticize or refuse to accept plots, characters and themes that might be necessary or even essential for that show or genre to function. He often appears to be a member of a Periphery Demographic who cannot or does not wish to accept that the show is not actually aimed directly at him (if at all), and yet resents the fact that it is not actually aimed at him. Therefore, any complaints about how it's not aimed at him are legitimate complaints and considered "Weaknesses."

Abridged Version - A fan outside of the show's demographic who complains because the show isn't being directed at him.

this whole phrase seems contrived by some hack writer who can't take negative fan feedback..

JJ Abrams, and Michael Bay's favorite writers roberto orci and that other guy come to mind..

You've never heard of TV Tropes?

no..sorry..I will check it out though. thanks for the link.

this whole phrase seems contrived by some hack writer who can't take negative fan feedback..

JJ Abrams, and Michael Bay's favorite writers roberto orci and that other guy come to mind..

I think it sounds like it's been written by a well-adjusted person with a sense of perspective.

if you say so mirror.. but if there are enough fans who complain about a subject, and are passionate, they are considered fringe by the defenders of said genre (some fans who think their glorified writers and producers can do no wrong) and are summarily dismissed.. but the fact that they have any dissension at all and are dismissed is also an example of ignorance..I agree there are some whinny fans who are unable to accept certain concepts and realize certain things aren't geared towards them.. but there are also some who are right.. I just don't think that the previous statement is fair, since it seeks to encompass most fans of dissenting opinion and places them in a fringe category without acknowledging that there are legitimate grievances that some in the fan community are justified in voicing..

Assuming that the Cybermen in The Next Doctor are still erased after The Big Bang, my opinion is that Jackson Lake no longer remembers the Doctor or the Cybermen. Only time travellers can remember things that get unwritten from time, and Lake wasn't a time traveller.

I agree with that logic..

 

[Admiral_Young]

^ I don't. It's sketchy at best with no basis whatsoever. We're all assuming things and stating our opinions. I happen to believe that the reset didn't erase past events. Also you don't need to be a time travel to forget thing. People forget events all the time in real life no matter how big they are. I'm not saying that Jackson would forget about the Doctor...just saying that we as human tend to forget stuff. I do all the time.

Also just because you want to include Jackson in your own personal continuity doesn't mean he does not exist in the actual canon. I'm not sure why you can't accept that. The narrow minded thinking behind your premise is what I have a problem with.

 

[Phily B]

The Atraxi showed Daleks and Cybermen when The Doctor asked them about the threats the world had faced, and if it was protected. It really doesn't make much sense for some things to be restored, and others not. I think Amy had everything restored, but cause she was time travelling (and Rory) she doesn't remember the Daleks. That, and I don't patricularly understand how the Daleks could be wiped out by the time crack. Wouldn't it have to eat the Earth too? Not to mention the Daleks in VotD that escaped from the explosions that the clone Doctor caused would've been wiped out by the crack or at least mentioned it.

I'm guessing its why they didn't mention it in the TV show. The final episode was already stupid and confusing enough, I doubt the mainstream audience - especially the millions of kids - would understand it, I certainly don't.

The whole thing is silly really, RTD was here for 4 series and a few specials. He just glossed over the fact humans knew about aliens easily enough, he sometimes dropped it in or silly explanations (wi-fi, government putting stuff in the water) which was enough for me.

 

[GabeHimself]

It is a stupid idea and a total rip off of TNG's Remember Me and All Good Things.

Will I complain? A little. Can I? Yes. Will I keep watching? Yes. Because the premise of the show has not been broken nor could it be and I like Matt Smith. So I will keep watching in the hopes that it gets better.