^It's an error, as is to be expected of Amazon. Heck, they're still alleging the existence of a 400-page hardcover by me called Hidden Truths, which was the working title for my short story "As Others See Us" in Constellations.
Battling apathy
- Thread starter Ood Sigma
- Start date
This is so astounding it sounds like science fiction.
Why don't you try some decent science fiction?
Star Trek is good enough to watch most of the time but it is almost NEVER good enough to read. Now you can even get decent stuff FREE.
http://baencd.thefifthimperium.com/24-CryoburnCD/CryoburnCD/index.htm
Buy some science fiction from the REAL WORLD to read it with.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgGSlz_-34E
I bought one. It works fine as a book reader. And then you can check out public domain stuff. Ever heard of Mack Reynolds. From Before Star Trek. You know 4 and 5 BST.
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/30334/30334-h/30334-h.html
psik
Why don't you try some decent science fiction?
Star Trek is good enough to watch most of the time but it is almost NEVER good enough to read. Now you can even get decent stuff FREE.
http://baencd.thefifthimperium.com/24-CryoburnCD/CryoburnCD/index.htm
Buy some science fiction from the REAL WORLD to read it with.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgGSlz_-34E
I bought one. It works fine as a book reader. And then you can check out public domain stuff. Ever heard of Mack Reynolds. From Before Star Trek. You know 4 and 5 BST.
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/30334/30334-h/30334-h.html
psik
This is so astounding it sounds like science fiction.
Why don't you try some decent science fiction?
Star Trek is good enough to watch most of the time but it is almost NEVER good enough to read. Now you can even get decent stuff FREE.
http://baencd.thefifthimperium.com/24-CryoburnCD/CryoburnCD/index.htm
Buy some science fiction from the REAL WORLD to read it with.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgGSlz_-34E
I bought one. It works fine as a book reader. And then you can check out public domain stuff. Ever heard of Mack Reynolds. From Before Star Trek. You know 4 and 5 BST.
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/30334/30334-h/30334-h.html
psik
\
uh,,
i grew up reading sf especially classic sf,
but yeah have found some trek books that i like from time to time.
This is so astounding it sounds like science fiction.
Why don't you try some decent science fiction?
Star Trek is good enough to watch most of the time but it is almost NEVER good enough to read. Now you can even get decent stuff FREE.
http://baencd.thefifthimperium.com/24-CryoburnCD/CryoburnCD/index.htm
Buy some science fiction from the REAL WORLD to read it with.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgGSlz_-34E
I bought one. It works fine as a book reader. And then you can check out public domain stuff. Ever heard of Mack Reynolds. From Before Star Trek. You know 4 and 5 BST.
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/30334/30334-h/30334-h.html
psik
Bujold is fantastic. But the average Star Trek book, I think, is certainly no worse than the average Baen release.
A statement proving that you've read far less of it than most of the people on this forum.
Mack Reynolds wrote the first original Star Trek novel, Mission to Horatius. It was a young adult book, and far cruder than most Trek fiction since.
This just about nails it.
It never disappeared from amazon.de, they just changed the date to first the end of 2010 when it was canceled/postponed/put on hold/whatever IIRC and now to 2030. Actually it often was part of the books they would recommend to me before they changed the date to 2030.
The same happened to Millennium Bloom, just that they used a much closer date, according to Amazon.de it is coming out in April. Yeah, right.
Amazon just sucks when it comes to canceled books.
I was battling apathy with the Trek book line several years ago. I'd say around 2004, 2005.
At this point I can't remember exactly what the issue was. I'm pretty sure it was my severe disappointment with the A Time To series. Part of it was I just did not like the direction of Alpha Quadrant politics taken out of the hands of DS9 and given to TNG. I also think I was upset over delays to Unity and by the time I got it, I thought it was another big disappointment.
It was basically at this time that I encountered my first real problems with the line. I think the previous three or four years had had virtually no problems in my opinion. So I was fighting a real sense of disillusionment. To me, that's when the so-called "Golden Age" of Trek books ended. I seriously considered stopping my reading of Trek books.
And then the DS9 Relaunch started to go downhill.
The truth is I could go on and on with all the little issues that I have had with the books. There are so many little problems. It's whether or not they add up to enough for me to stop. Back in 2004 I think it had nearly reached a tipping point. Yet I have press on, mostly because there are few other books out there I'm interested in reading. And really, I'm enjoying the line now more than I did then. Vanguard and Titan have been a big part of that, the former a little more stable than the latter.
The TNG Relaunch however has been another near disaster. More and more I think the plan is to not have a plan: constantly rotating (and dull) new characters come to mind.
I think now I'm battling apathy with this board. I'm just not posting as much as I used to and it takes me forever to get around to replying to a thread I do like.
At this point I can't remember exactly what the issue was. I'm pretty sure it was my severe disappointment with the A Time To series. Part of it was I just did not like the direction of Alpha Quadrant politics taken out of the hands of DS9 and given to TNG. I also think I was upset over delays to Unity and by the time I got it, I thought it was another big disappointment.
It was basically at this time that I encountered my first real problems with the line. I think the previous three or four years had had virtually no problems in my opinion. So I was fighting a real sense of disillusionment. To me, that's when the so-called "Golden Age" of Trek books ended. I seriously considered stopping my reading of Trek books.
And then the DS9 Relaunch started to go downhill.
The truth is I could go on and on with all the little issues that I have had with the books. There are so many little problems. It's whether or not they add up to enough for me to stop. Back in 2004 I think it had nearly reached a tipping point. Yet I have press on, mostly because there are few other books out there I'm interested in reading. And really, I'm enjoying the line now more than I did then. Vanguard and Titan have been a big part of that, the former a little more stable than the latter.
The TNG Relaunch however has been another near disaster. More and more I think the plan is to not have a plan: constantly rotating (and dull) new characters come to mind.
I think now I'm battling apathy with this board. I'm just not posting as much as I used to and it takes me forever to get around to replying to a thread I do like.
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Speaking of Relaunches causing apathy...
I think the DS9 relaunch (being the first one) set the bar too high for the other relaunches. DS9's relaunch was very strong in quality and quantity in its beginning.
Then Voyager came along and got the relaunch treatment and (around here) was not welcomed really at all due to it's distinct lack of quality as compared to DS9. Couple that with the fact that it was also assigned to only one author unlike DS9 meant it would have books come out less often and those that didn't like the author were stuck with no Voyager at all.
Enter the TNG Relaunch, better than Voyager, but only marginally. Then it was fumbled with the continuity problems between Q&A and Before Dishonor which I'm pretty sure is what caused the perceived revolving door of crewmen there.
Next comes Enterprise's relaunch which, like Voyager, appeared to be only one author (team in this case). The controversial decision to resurrect Trip didn't help matters for this relaunch, made doubly worse by the controversial manner in which the resurrection took place -- deemed over complicated by many.
And lastly DS9 itself seemed affected. The unavoidable author problem with Fearful Symmetry, the storyline shift to mirror universe, the seeming complete dropping of the Ascendants storyline. Then the huge editor lay-off that affected all the books and this one in particular with a sudden jump in the timeline.
All of that happening and none of it living up to the perceived greatness of the DS9 relaunch's initial run, I can see where a distinct lack of enthusiasm would result.
I think the DS9 relaunch (being the first one) set the bar too high for the other relaunches. DS9's relaunch was very strong in quality and quantity in its beginning.
Then Voyager came along and got the relaunch treatment and (around here) was not welcomed really at all due to it's distinct lack of quality as compared to DS9. Couple that with the fact that it was also assigned to only one author unlike DS9 meant it would have books come out less often and those that didn't like the author were stuck with no Voyager at all.
Enter the TNG Relaunch, better than Voyager, but only marginally. Then it was fumbled with the continuity problems between Q&A and Before Dishonor which I'm pretty sure is what caused the perceived revolving door of crewmen there.
Next comes Enterprise's relaunch which, like Voyager, appeared to be only one author (team in this case). The controversial decision to resurrect Trip didn't help matters for this relaunch, made doubly worse by the controversial manner in which the resurrection took place -- deemed over complicated by many.
And lastly DS9 itself seemed affected. The unavoidable author problem with Fearful Symmetry, the storyline shift to mirror universe, the seeming complete dropping of the Ascendants storyline. Then the huge editor lay-off that affected all the books and this one in particular with a sudden jump in the timeline.
All of that happening and none of it living up to the perceived greatness of the DS9 relaunch's initial run, I can see where a distinct lack of enthusiasm would result.
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What was the continuity problem? (I read Death in Winter and then jumped to Greater than the Sum; Bennett filled in requisite background information nicely.)
I would've thought the Trip storyline would be welcomed, since no one I've read in a TATV thread applauds his death.
That's a lot of it right there. Add in the rapidly shrinking schedule (author problems, book cancellations, counting reprints in some of the slots, etc) and you just realize that you used to religiously buy a book or two every month, and you've only bought a couple recently. I wouldn't be all that apathetic on my own (mild fatigue, maybe, bue we've also had some really good stories), but we've reduced the Trek OUTPUT by so much lately that even rabid buyers like myself aren't reading much anymore...
The characterizations of Leybenzon and Kadohata are pretty drastically different between the two. T'Lana is also a bit strange between them and some say she is also not the same character between Resistance/Q&A/Before Dishonor. To me though I think T'Lana was the only one who remained in character the whole time, but I can see somewhat abruptness in her actions between the three.
I think there may have been the fallacy that because one relaunch was welcomed and successful, that treatment should be applied to all of the book lines (except TOS).
FWIW I've rather enjoyed the ENT relaunch, and frankly that version of events makes a lot more sense to me than anything in TATV. Haven't read Voy, found the TNG relaunch, starting from Resistance, a bit inconsistent but never -bad-.
Trying to catch up on my DS9 now, re-reading the Ferenginar/Dominion WotF then moving forward.
Trying to catch up on my DS9 now, re-reading the Ferenginar/Dominion WotF then moving forward.
Was a major fan of the line over the last fifteen years; always looked forward to the upcoming releases. But I lost interest in the books a while back, as bit by bit some of the series that interested me appeared to vanish (DS9), suffered from poor quality (ENT), or both (VOY). Then Destiny came along and swept the carpet out from under the rest of the 24th century, taking the universe as a whole in a direction I was repelled by. That was the straw (well, ACME anvil--whatever else might be said about Destiny, it's no lightweight) that broke the camel's back. The setting? I don't recognize this smoky ruin. Established characters? I don't know who half of them are anymore. The Trek line has passed beyond the point of requisite familiarity, for this reader at least. Utterly unfettered, it has gone off to do its own thing, bearing increasingly little similarity to the product that drew me into the fictional universe in the first place.
Apathy. Yes and no; once it was dislike at the direction, but apathy is steadily taking over. I have post-Destiny books on my shelves, bought before I actually discovered what this 'bold new direction' was, or else purchased by well-meaning relative; I've no interest in reading them. I do have some Trek works I'm nominally still interested in--books like Soul Key and Never-Ending Sacrifice--but the apathy I feel about the rest of the line is infectious, and these books keep getting de-prioritized over other subjects, shuffled back into the pile. Every so often I look at the reviews online to see if the line might be heading in a direction I might be more favourable to, but all I see is more of the same character destruction and bleak realpolitik. And where my objections before were, admitedly, intensely subjective, there seems to be a growing consensus that the line as a whole is growing anemic beyond the question of content. Thinning, quantitatively and qualitatively.
To be honest, though Destiny was the undeniable break-point, in retrospect I can see that my interest had been waning for some time. I only got to Destiny--the great event--over half-a-year after it was released, where once I was on this forum for every new book, scoping out when my fellows were finding their copies. I think back now to when it started to go pear-shaped, and I would say it was mid-2006. This was the period in which Pocket was full in the throes of its anniversarial fixation, and the schedule from mid-2006 to mid-2007 was almost entirely given over to TOS, a series I'd never followed. My purchases and readings went from nigh-monthly to nearly-nill, and I don't think my interest was ever peaked as strongly as it was before this exclusionary stretch. Perhaps, if every release after the drought had been as strong as The Buried Age it might have been different, but we pretty much immediately were launched into the Borg arc as soon as the Year of TOS was over, complete with the highly varying quality of its entries, the editorial faux-pas, and the overbearing overuse of the eponymous villain(s). That, combined with the silliness on the ENT side of things and the unfortunate stumbling about on the DS9 side of things, primed my abandon for when Destiny thundered in. A potential lesson for Pocket: never hold out on your addicts for too long, or they'll wander off to another dealer's corner.
Ditto, though I didn't make it quite as far as as the sixth book (third or fourth, can't quite recall at the moment), and I have tried some of the stuff set earlier in the timeline (eh). I've abandoned quite a few franchises in the last few years. Legacy of the Force killed Star Wars for me. Destiny, Trek. I used to buy every trade set in Marvel's Ultimate universe, then they trashed the setting and slaughtered half their cast for no reason, and I haven't read a single issue of that continuity since. Battlestar Galatica, haven't bothered with any of the DVDs or spin-offs since the series finale took a giant dump all over the premise. Don't know if they ever plan to do more material for LOST, but if they did, I'd shun the hell out of it. I don't know if all these rejections are a result of a confluence of generic trends, the darker and grittier fad and the propensity for facile religiosity, or if I've simply grown less tolerant when it comes to my media. Certainly the amount of time I have to devote to pleasure reading has dropped significantly, so when I choose what I read, I'm more cautious in my choices, prioritizing works I feel more likely to actually give me pleasure rather than frustration.
Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman
Well said - you completely summed up my problems with Destiny and the post Borg universe.
I agree that the DS9 Relaunch is the strongest of the bunch, but I don't agree that they set the bar too high. I think they set it exactly as high as it should be, and the other relaunches were mostly not as good, but they easily could have been.
I'm not a a huge Voyager fan. Or...more precisely, I'm not a huge Voyager fan anymore. I loved Season 1...and then watched as the writers ripped apart everything that I loved about the show. I did enjoy Season 4, but aside from those 2 seasons everything else was a mixed bag. I actually thought the first 2 Relaunch books weren't half bad. It was the next 2 books that killed it for me - they were HORRIBLE. I enjoyed the in-series String Theory Trilogy. I've heard the 2 recent Relaunch titles are a huge improvement; I have them, and I look forward to reading them at some point.
TNG Relaunch is just weird. I've pretty much enjoyed every volume to some degree, having read "Resistance" - "Destiny"; I don't think any other them are worthless, though I enjoyed "Resistance" far less than the others...yet they don't gel as a series, like you say - they lack cohesion. I've not read 'Losing the Peace' yet but I'm hoping this series comes together. I suppose I'm hoping that they all do.
I loathed the sort of Relaunch prologue of "Last Full Measure" because continuity wise, the main story of the novel couldn't have taken place where it said that it did and it just drove me crazy trying to read it; I pretend the entire book doesn't exist. However, I loved "The Good That Men Do"; the resurrection of Trip didn't strike me as controversial at all. It would have bothered me if his death had made any sense in the series finale, but it (like almost everything else about that horrid episode) did not. I loved almost everything about that book and I look forward to reading the others; I have the next 2 but haven't gotten around to reading them yet. "The Good That Men Do", like DS9's "Avatar" really felt like I was back with our beloved characters again.
I really think the problem with the DS9 Relaunch is that we went from having an arc that was spread out over many books in a relatively short span of time...to not getting many books at all, with the same game plan. Like...I don't think the Mirror Universe storyline, or the lack of developement on the Ascendant storyline was intended to be spread out over years and if we'd gotten more books in the same time frame it wouldn't have seemed that way, but since we were getting fewer books we expected more plot development...the frequencey of the books had changed drastically but they were still playing out in the same way, which hurt the series IMO. They should have, in hindsight, provided more plot development in the books that were being released - does that make sense? When you wait a few months and get a book like "Fearful Symmetry" or "The Soul Key" it's fairly satisfying, but when you wait a year or two for those stories they seem far less satisfying because your hunger has grown for something far more fulfilling, so I don't think the quality of the DS9 series has taken much of a hit...it's just that with the change in publishing our expectations have changed...while the books themselves haven't caught up to that change in expectation. I expect future volumes will be written with this change in mind and be more satisfying...or at least I hope so.
I guess for me, the relaunches all have their good and bad points. There aren't any that I completely dislike and I'm willing to ride them out and see where they go. Having said that, I'm in a bit of a funk myself...but it's reading in general. In the last year I've found it terribly difficult to finish ANY books whatsover. I've read a few Trek books this year. One I loved ("The Never-Ending Sacrifice"), the others I didn't enjoy at all but only 1 of them was new ("Typhon Pact: Seize The Fire", "A Time To Be Born" & "A Time To Die"). I'm trying to read "A Time To Sow" at the moment but find myself not really caring.
That's true. Warpath was supposed to be followed fairly closely by Fearful Symmetry. But then that book got delayed, and there was an author change which delayed it further, and then the new author ended up writing a much longer book than intended, so it was split into two books, Fearful Symmetry and The Soul Key, which came out 13 months apart. It was an unavoidable but regrettable delay that did cost the series some momentum. And unfortunately Marco got laid off not long thereafter.
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