Battling apathy

[Greg Cox]

It can be tricky to switch from novel mode to short story mode sometimes. A ZORRO story I wrote a few years ago ended up being twice as long as it was supposed to be just because I automatically started expanding it like I would a novel. I ended up having to cut out entire scenes and characters and it was still longer than contracted for . . ..

 

[BillJ]

I must admit that the cancellation of the post-STXI books in the summer hurt - I was hyped for them like you wouldn't believe.

This.

 

[SicOne]

Makes me wonder what all they had to cut to fit the story length parameters.

Well, most of them would've been outlined with that target length in mind to begin with, so probably nothing would've needed to be cut. The exception is my Places of Exile, which I originally pitched to Marco early in the development of the alternate-histories project, before he'd decided on the format and length. So I outlined it with a full-length novel in mind. When it ended up being a short novel, I had to trim the outline substantially. I combined two major plot threads; the confrontation with the Voth at the end of part 1 is an amalgam of the climaxes of parts 1 and 2 of the original outline, one of which would've been a confrontation with a different group. I also left out a lot of the stuff I'd wanted to do in part 1 showing the crew adjusting to their new lives, having various adventures on their new ships (which I saw as a way of using up a number of unsold story pitches I developed for the show). Other than that, I just told the story more compactly than I would have at novel length.

Makes me wonder what all they had to cut to fit the story length parameters.

Well, most of them would've been outlined with that target length in mind to begin with, so probably nothing would've needed to be cut. QUOTE]


Exactly. If you're hired to write a novella or short story, you don't plot it like you would a full-length novel.

I'm not a writer, but I can get behind that.

It does bring to mind some interesting questions, though.

(1) How did David Mack get his expanded "The Sorrows of Empire" published, and none of the other Mirror Universe anthologies authors did? Not that he didn't deserve it, mind you, but all of the MU stories were equally excellent and I was curious how he got singled out for that particular honor.

(2) Though all of you who participated in the Myriad Universes books had specific word-count targets (I'm sure there's a more technical definition for it) for your work, did any of the MyU writers develop two separate versions; one for the anthology and a larger, "director's cut" edition just in case the publisher said something along the lines of "Hey, so-and-so just called, his story is going to be 10,000 words short; can you draw yours out a bit?" or "This is great; we just so happen to have an available publishing slot come available and we'd love to give you the Mack treatment!"

(3) How did the powers-that-be arrive at the three-novellas-per-anthology format for Myriad Universes? Quite frankly, I would have enjoyed full-length stories a la the "Captain's Table" and "Lost Era" books. Given the freedom of setting and nature of the story, you're not necessarily beholden to continuity past the point-of-divergence and thus a lot more free to explore the "What Ifs". While I enjoyed all of the MyU entries of the first two books, KRAD's "A Gutted World" is the one that I'd most like to read in a full-length book version.

Christopher, I enjoyed the behind-the-scenes look at the development of "Places In Exile". Your website annotations helped in my enjoyment of that story as well as your other Trek books.

 

[Therin of Andor]

(1) How did David Mack get his expanded "The Sorrows of Empire" published, and none of the other Mirror Universe anthologies authors did? Not that he didn't deserve it, mind you, but all of the MU stories were equally excellent and I was curious how he got singled out for that particular honor.

Wasn't it that the editor felt there was much more of the story to tell? And this was the one closest in theme/characters to the original TOS episode?

 

[SicOne]

^ I also briefly wondered if Pocket thought people would buy "Sorrows" upon recognizing David's name from the "Destiny" trilogy.

 

[Christopher]

(1) How did David Mack get his expanded "The Sorrows of Empire" published, and none of the other Mirror Universe anthologies authors did? Not that he didn't deserve it, mind you, but all of the MU stories were equally excellent and I was curious how he got singled out for that particular honor.

Dave can answer this better than I, but my understanding was that Margaret needed to fill a slot in the schedule quickly (since the development process was rather screwed up by Marco's layoff) and it occurred to her that it would take a lot less time to expand an existing tale than to develop and write a whole new novel from scratch. As for why Sorrows was chosen, I assume it was because of Dave's popularity as an author and because it would help set the stage for Dave's intended Rise Like Lions, the finale to the MU saga.

(2) Though all of you who participated in the Myriad Universes books had specific word-count targets (I'm sure there's a more technical definition for it) for your work, did any of the MyU writers develop two separate versions; one for the anthology and a larger, "director's cut" edition just in case the publisher said something along the lines of "Hey, so-and-so just called, his story is going to be 10,000 words short; can you draw yours out a bit?" or "This is great; we just so happen to have an available publishing slot come available and we'd love to give you the Mack treatment!"

Well, the only people who wrote their short novels after the expanded Sorrows came along are the authors of the new volume. The idea of expanding a MyrU tale didn't occur to any of us on the first two, as far as I know.

And as a rule, no, I don't think we'd do the sort of thing you're suggesting. It's enough hard work just outlining and writing one version of a novel, especially when you're on a deadline. Generally, you write the story you're commissioned to write, and you don't make major changes unless the editor requests them. No point creating more work for yourself without reason.

(3) How did the powers-that-be arrive at the three-novellas-per-anthology format for Myriad Universes?

They did MyrU that way because Mirror Universe was done that way. Marco had been trying to get his alternate-histories project off the ground for years, but he wasn't really able to get traction until after MU had succeeded and proved to the sales department that alternate-history Trek was commercially viable. So he gave it a title that resembled "Mirror Universe" and did it in the same format as the MU anthologies.

So the real question is why the MU trades were done that way. I see that as an evolution of what Marco did with Worlds of DS9; that was six short novels in three MMPBs, this was six short novels in two trades. (And they are short novels, not novellas. Anything above 40,000 words is considered a novel.) Trade paperbacks are an increasingly popular format with book vendors, and they make sense for "event" books or for things that aren't part of any of the regular Trek series.

 

[Technobuilder]

Being a DS9-R fan, I'd gotten a little bit "ready-to-move-on" with the concept of the mirror universe being a part of the main storyline...

However, Sorrows of Empire (the short story novel) made me do a quick turnaround on that sort of thinking.

I loved that story and everything about it's progression in the subsequent tales.
The idea that we'd actually get to see the result of Emperor Spock's Grand Plan, centuries after the fact was a fantastic lure to my sense of "what happened next" that the Lost Era Books did such a good job of sparking.

Rise Like Lions by David Mack is probably my most anticipated book on the schedule as a result, with Christopher's DTI book and Swallow's Indistinguishable from Magic, tied for second.

So apathetic toward Trek Lit....as reader, no, not yet.

I'd love to see more CoE stories, more Klingon Empire Stories, more Deep Space Nine Stories (especially during the 5-year gap).

But I've got Vanguard to look forward to as well as the hope of more good stories to come.

The realities of life, the fact that behind the scenes it's also a business, and that sometimes stuff happens beyond anyone's control is just something that the fans waiting for another great Star Trek adventure have to be realistic about.

Of course that being said, it's also something we as fans have a right to bitch about online. Just like we do with the TV shows and movies.

It's cathartic.

 

[James Swallow]

...Swallow's Indistinguishable from Magic...

Just FYI, it's m'colleague David McIntee who's writing Indistinguishable from Magic, not me. My next Trek novel is titled Cast No Shadow.

 

[JD]

^Which is pretty high up on my list for next year. I'm a huge Vaughn fan, and I've been curious to see what became of Valeris for quite some time now, so this book has alot going for it for me.

 

[LightningStorm]

This thread is particularly apt for me lately. It's been a full year since I've read a Trek book. And the lackluster reviews of Zero Sum Game and the downright bad reviews of Sieze the Fire really aren't helping things for me.

I am however still highly anticipating Indistinguishable from Magic and Watching the Clock. And even given the ZSG reviews I'm a big David Mack fan and will be reading it regardless.

 

[Aaron McGuire]

I don't get everyone saying that ZSG was bad. I thought it was quite good. I like the insight it gave us into the Breen. It fleshed them out and made them a real three dimensional race. The revelation at the end broke my heart though.

I don't think the quality has really slipped in the past few months like others do, but I do notice a difference. I, for one, am not ready to give up on trek lit yet. I prefer to think of it as a slump. Bright things are on the horizon.

Aaron McGuire

 

[Thrawn]

This thread is particularly apt for me lately. It's been a full year since I've read a Trek book. And the lackluster reviews of Zero Sum Game and the downright bad reviews of Sieze the Fire really aren't helping things for me.

I am however still highly anticipating Indistinguishable from Magic and Watching the Clock. And even given the ZSG reviews I'm a big David Mack fan and will be reading it regardless.

It's definitely worth reading, just not up to his usual standards. Probably more irritating than it should've been, after waiting through a very long year of few and poor publications, spending the whole time waiting for the next Guaranteed Mindblowing David Mack Novel to rekindle my enthusiasm.

That said, I, like you, am really excited for those two as well as Children Of The Storm. And the excerpt in the other thread is starting to get me really wanting to read Rough Beasts Of Empire, too. Maybe DRG3's uninterrupted run of awesome will continue where Mack's didn't.

(Just so it doesn't come off otherwise, Mack is still my favorite, and I'm still expecting Rise Like Lions and his Vanguard novella to hit it out of the goddamn park.)

 

[Technobuilder]

...Swallow's Indistinguishable from Magic...

Just FYI, it's m'colleague David McIntee who's writing Indistinguishable from Magic, not me. My next Trek novel is titled Cast No Shadow.

Gah, I'm so sorry for the mix-up.
I should start fact checking myself when it comes to things like this.

Could you remind me what Cast No Shadow is about? Someone mentioned Valeris and that seems all sorts of interesting.

Again apologies to Mr. Swallow & Mr. McIntee (Whose "Reservoir Ferengi" short is a favorite of mine)

Update: Just read the blurb for Cast No Shadow at Memory Alpha... (not sure what's up with Memory Beta not having it)
here http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Cast_No_Shadow

This book is definitely on my list to read in 2011.

I don't get everyone saying that ZSG was bad. I thought it was quite good. I like the insight it gave us into the Breen. It fleshed them out and made them a real three dimensional race. The revelation at the end broke my heart though.

I don't think the quality has really slipped in the past few months like others do, but I do notice a difference. I, for one, am not ready to give up on trek lit yet. I prefer to think of it as a slump. Bright things are on the horizon.

Aaron McGuire

Yeah, I'm not getting that one myself, I enjoyed Zero Sum Game well enough and it set the stage for further developments in the DS9 corner of Trek that have my interest peaked. Plus I enjoyed finally getting a "look behind the curtain" at the Breen Confederacy. David Mack didn't blow up any planets this time but the body count was high and I remember several starship explosions... what gives? lol

 

[William Leisner]

(2) Though all of you who participated in the Myriad Universes books had specific word-count targets (I'm sure there's a more technical definition for it) for your work, did any of the MyU writers develop two separate versions; one for the anthology and a larger, "director's cut" edition just in case the publisher said something along the lines of "Hey, so-and-so just called, his story is going to be 10,000 words short; can you draw yours out a bit?" or "This is great; we just so happen to have an available publishing slot come available and we'd love to give you the Mack treatment!"

I was far more concerned that Marco would say to me, "The only way to save this p.o.s. is to hack 25,000 words out of it."

 

[JD]

\

Update: Just read the blurb for Cast No Shadow at Memory Alpha... (not sure what's up with Memory Beta not having it)
here http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Cast_No_Shadow

This book is definitely on my list to read in 2011.

Hmm, no mention of Vaughn there, and no mention of Spock in the announcement in STM. I first heard about it in the Star Trek Magazine were it was announced that it would be about Valeris and Vaughn teaming up. But the involvement (or possible involvement) of Spock moves this up even high in my anticipation list.

 

[James Swallow]

Update: Just read the blurb for Cast No Shadow at Memory Alpha... (not sure what's up with Memory Beta not having it)
here http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Cast_No_Shadow
This book is definitely on my list to read in 2011.

Hmm, no mention of Vaughn there, and no mention of Spock in the announcement in STM. I first heard about it in the Star Trek Magazine were it was announced that it would be about Valeris and Vaughn teaming up. But the involvement (or possible involvement) of Spock moves this up even high in my anticipation list.

Thanks for the interest, folks.

You have my assurance that Elias Vaughn is very definitely a main character in Cast No Shadow. As for Spock, he plays a role (as do some other familiar faces) but he's more of a "guest star".

 

[AN_D_K]

I think my problem with the star trek books recently are how they have kind of homogenised mostly due to the crossing over books.

Before they were all clearly separate series with enough variety to make it interesting each month. Before I couldn't wait a whole year for the new Titan, DS9, etc. Now I'm working through a star trek book every month.

 

[AN_D_K]

Oh, and the tng series never getting it's stuff together with a clear cast, direction or interest. The build up to destiny was a mess. It was very hard to care about anyone.

 

[Jack Bauer]

I kind of lost interest in Treklit this year mainly due to the cancellation of the post ST XI novels. I was so looking forward to them that I just kind of lost my need to read Trek for awhile. Plus I've got a number of non Trek books to read that I'd rather read before anything Trek.

 

[Daddy Todd]

^ Well, Christopher's "Seek a Newer World" has popped back up on Amazon, where it's reported to be coming out in less than two weeks.

I ain't holding my breath, but I pre-ordered it anyway, just to be on the safe side.