Boycotting Thor

[ProtoAvatar]

As for the claim about Germany not wining even without USA intervention - it is highly debatable.
I think[...]

I think [..]

As said - these points are highly debatable.
Historians have been debating them for the better part of a century without reaching a conclusion.

Roosevelt's views are subject to debate - his discussions with Churchill don't paint him as a resolute pro-war supporter; quite the contrary, on occasions.

It's not about his statements.
[...]
There are things one can argue about but whether or not Roosevelt's policies indicate a pro-war stance is sort of beyond dispute.

A closer look at Roosevelt's career as USA's president, indeed, appears to indicate that, generally, he pursued a pro-war policy - despite a few of his comments or actions.

This does not change in the least the point I made - without Pearl Harbour, it is highly unlikely USA would have entered the war - Roosevelt's pro-war position was most definitively not USA's position, before Pearl Harbour.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

As for the claim about Germany not wining even without USA intervention - it is highly debatable.
I think[...]

I think [..]

As said - these points are highly debatable.
Historians have been debating them for the better part of a century without reaching a conclusion.

As far as the impact of the USSR in waging the land war, the biggest reasons why it couldn't be acknowledged were political. This isn't really debated by credible historians. They've switched to other things, such as speeding up victory and the impact of US material support. I don't think Stalingrad, Kursk, and the Soviet push west can be debated as the key factors in the war.

 

[Kegg]

I don't think Stalingrad, Kursk, and the Soviet push west can be debated as the key factors in the war.

Pretty much. The land war had essentially been won - and by the Russians - by the time of D-Day.

 

[Guy Gardener]

But it wasted a shit load of German resources they could have focussed elsewhere. the Russian/German non aggression pact would have held till the war ended, it was only personal conflict between Hitler and Stalin which forced a war on two fronts (there were dozens, but la deh dah!) that Germany was eventually squeezed between the Russians on one seide and the allies on the other.

The Hitler Youth, Hitlers last ditch emplacement of reinforcements to FORTRESS BERLIN (think if America was invaded that it was going so badly that obama drafted the Boyscouts into the regular military.) might have stood a chance if they didn't have to worry abuot the advancing Russians.

Have you ever read Ministry of Space? Warren Ellis had a comic about a fractured history where the British secured all the German Rocket Scientists before the Americans thus winning the Space Race before it even began.

 

[theenglish]

I checked on this group's website. Seems they are getting off on all the attention their little protest article generated on the web. I hope this turns into good advertising for the movie.

 

[Capt_Pickirk]

Have you ever read Ministry of Space? Warren Ellis had a comic about a fractured history where the British secured all the German Rocket Scientists before the Americans thus winning the Space Race before it even began.

Oooo!!! That sounds interesting!!!!! [runs to the library]

 

[Myasishchev]

It was one of those projects Warren Ellis took roughly a human lifetime to finish,* but yeah, it was good.

*Less forgivably than the 27-issue, ten year testament to Warren Ellis' obvious boredom with the subject, Planetary, given that MoS was three issues long. I suppose it could've been Chris Weston's fault somehow. (Panels as good as his no doubt take some time.)

 

[Alidar Jarok]

But it wasted a shit load of German resources they could have focussed elsewhere. the Russian/German non aggression pact would have held till the war ended, it was only personal conflict between Hitler and Stalin which forced a war on two fronts (there were dozens, but la deh dah!) that Germany was eventually squeezed between the Russians on one seide and the allies on the other.

Squeezed by the allies on both sides if you want to be technical

It wasn't personal by Hitler. He wanted Living Space and to enslave the subhuman slavic peoples. Stalin probably only made it personal in the sense that, if he lost, he'd be dead.

 

[Guy Gardener]

I admit that most of my history comes from dramas and movies, but it seemed like Hitlers hate for slavs was topped by his hate for Communists which was topped for his hate for Stalin.

They shared meals and got pissed together (hiltler was a teetotaling vegetarian puritan but the theory is still sound.) and probably went halves with a whore while discussing how to divvy up Europe.

It's like how Doom and Richards went to school together.

 

[Neroon]

Darned good thread so far, with some thought-provoking content. However, fascinating as the history lessons (re: Hitler et al) have been, let's keep the discussion focused on the movie and the protests related therein.

 

[Silvercrest]

Okay: It's my opinion that the only parties who can legitimately complain about Heimdall's portrayal are his worshipers.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Sorry if this has been mentioned but Sif in Marvel Comics is Heimdalls sister.

In the movie Sif is being played by Jaimie Alexander from Kyle XY.

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1526352/

Ebony and Ivory.

But then Chris Evans isn't latin like his (character's) sister from the Fantastic Four.

Though I suppose since Thor's brother is a frost giant anything is possible.

 

[barnaclelapse]

I'm not seeing Thor because it looks stupid. All this extra noise is just funny to me.

 

[Captaindemotion]

Okay: It's my opinion that the only parties who can legitimately complain about Heimdall's portrayal are his worshipers.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

I'm not seeing Thor because it looks stupid. All this extra noise is just funny to me.

I'll catch it on DVD, I think.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

I admit that most of my history comes from dramas and movies, but it seemed like Hitlers hate for slavs was topped by his hate for Communists which was topped for his hate for Stalin.

Other way around. Hitler first and for most hated non-Aryans. His entire goal of the war was to conquer the Soviet Union to ensure Germany had living space. His anti-communism stance was what helped get him elected, but it wasn't his core belief. His opposition to Stalin took on significance during the war, which makes sense with two absolute leaders of their country. Hitler's focus on Stalin led him to pick Stalingrad as a target city. But that was more for propaganda purposes than anything else.

So his reason for attacking the Soviet Union had nothing to do with Stalin and would likely have happened even if they weren't communist.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Not the best example but Nicholas II was still on the throne in the Fourth Season episodes of Enterprise set during an altered WWII, and because the Nazi's found the Romanovs less unpredictable, they were able to roll on through and make a beach head in America after conquering England.

 

[Captaindemotion]

^ You're right, that really isn't the best example.

 

[Guy Gardener]

But is it the absolute worst possible example available?

 

[Nerys Myk]

But then Chris Evans isn't latin like his (character's) sister from the Fantastic Four.

The actress is hispanic, not the character. Just as Reed isn't Welsh, but the guy who played him was.