• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Plinkett gets REVENGE

Status
Not open for further replies.
The godawful good clones vs. bad droids Clone Wars,
But you must agree that this cannon fodder vs cannon foder (expendable clones vs expendable droids) was kinda neat in its originality. The only downside is that you didn't have a side to cheer for. It felt like watching a football match between two teams that mean nothing to me.

with far more advanced tech than seen in the OT.
Well, it certainly did look more advanced, since the movies were made in modern times, and not in the seventies, but... I didn't notice any real advancements.

- Yoda knowing Chewie
That's one of those things that made me go "bullshit!" and then just shrug and say "whatever"...

- Palps' magical/nonsensical instant aging
I never saw that as aging, but "deformation" (Palpatine said it himself in the senate).

- One Jedi taking out the whole Jedi Temple, even leading the charge, without getting so much as a scratch
To my understanding, there were several hundred Jedi altogether, and most of them were scattered across many galactic battlefields. And Anakin/Vader was supposed to be a lot more powerful than your average Jedi knight. And I'm really pissed at Lucas for not really showing us the Jedi Temple massacre in all its brutal glory. I always hoped to see Anakin on a dark side rampage, doing all kinds of crazy awesome force acrobatics like frying twenty Jedi at once with force lightning and stuff (I always figured that the only reason Vader couldn't shoot lightning bolts was that he would fry his own suit's circuits).

- Death Star construction starts before Luke/Leia's birth
Just assume that they had construction difficulties that made the shelve the project for two decades or so... Who cares...
 
Who cares...
Yeah, that's pretty much the only way an OT fan can enjoy the PT... and it's why I say Trek XI is the best SW prequel. But it's not actually Star Wars? "Who cares"? I guarantee that I'm having more fun, and so is the (sadly, for the foreseeable future, theoretical) chick I'm watching it with. :p :p ;)
 
Who cares...
Yeah, that's pretty much the only way an OT fan can enjoy the PT...
Yeah, I guess...

The benefits of not giving a rat's ass are enormous, you should give it a try some time.

All in all, the flaws in ROTS don't bother me much... As Roger Ebert once said (I'll paraphrase), it's not what is on screen that bothers me... It's what should have been there, but isn't.


To me, Greedo shooting first is a much more serious offense.

He's a solid reviewer, though, and his TPM review is one of the better video reviews I've seen.
Picking on things a casual viewer would never even notice (even after multiple viewings) isn't my idea of a good review, sorry. Fun, sure. But not good.
 
Picking on things a casual viewer would never even notice (even after multiple viewings) isn't my idea of a good review, sorry. Fun, sure. But not good.
His plot analysis is exhaustive and substantive. He doesn't just nitpick, he outlines the ways the narrative is hollow or half-thought. Much of it is stuff I observed when I first saw the movie - like how the problem with the much derided politics isn't that it's politics but that it makes no sense - but itemized and succinctly torn to pieces.

Besides, keep in mind he's competing with many other video reviews I've seen where the reviewer pretty much just says 'It sucks' and then screams at the screen.
 
Last edited:
Eh, I still like the Critic and Doug Walker in general, though I can see why people are saying it's getting tired. Sometimes that's how I feel towards Linkara, tbh. That's one of the nice things about these online reviewers, plenty of options. ;)

I mean, I still like Walker, and it's impossible to ignore his achievement as a businessman and a sort of next-generation Rich Kyanka.

Linkara's at his best when he's reviewing something someone gives a single damn about, like Countdown or The Ultimates 3 (or--it need not be relatively recent, just in some manner important or high-profile, especially if it's unexpectedly awful--e.g., The Dark Knight Strikes Again). I mean, it's entertaining enough to hear his reviews of Archie vs. The Micronauts or whatever, I suppose, but they're of marginal relevance.

Also, he's at his worst when he does those endless sketches. I guess some people must like them, or he enjoys them, or both, and God bless if that's the case, but to me they're too often either unfunny in principle, or unfunny in execution. (This is the key difference between Walker and Louvhaug and a few others on one hand, and Brad Jones and Antweiler on the other--the latter know how to write and perform short, funny sketches, whereas the former just throw fathomless wackiness in the general direction of the camera, and take it on faith that laughs will thereby occur. In complete fairness, on occasion laughs do, but it always seems completely accidental.)

Yet, as noted, there seems to be no pressure to stop, so the sketch monster will presumably persevere and thrive, till Linkara productions are 5% comic review, 95% of him running around in a Starfleet uniform yelling things at a process shot.

The thing is, now I feel bad for critiquing a thoroughly decent human being who has given me something along the lines of ten to twenty hours of free and mostly quality entertainment. :(

Thanks for those. I've not been avoiding Spoony out of any dislike, just not given him much of a chance - don't wanna get sucked in, you might say. :devil:
As Kegg explained below (above? whatever), if you ever have a few hours to kill on unadulterated, high-test hilarity, the FMV Hell Let's Plays are insanely good. Phantasmagoria is probably the best, but Ripper is great as well.

For a smaller bite, I could not recommend more strongly the riff of the Game Crazy training video. The training video itself is almost certainly the most offensive workplace learning tool ever devised. You will likely have difficulty in believing that it is real, and not some sort of parody itself.

Kegg said:
I'd unhesistatingly say that Antwiler's Let's Play of Phantasmagoria - which, as it's a FMV Hell title, amounts to him cracking wise about poorly written and acted 'movie' segments - is one of the best things he's done.

Oh, yeah. I suspect it must have been exhausting to do those: not only did he have to watch this garbage over and over, edit, etc., but he had to play effectively-broken games to get there.

Were you able to see the After Last Season riff for the six or so hours it was up before TSE got (predictably) hit with a C+D? (Or get the iRiff, or otherwise?) Great riff, worse film than Attack of the Eye Creatures, worse than Manos, worse than Monster A-Go-Go. I'd rather watch the straight versions of those in a marathon, than watch an untampered-with version of After Last Season.

There were parts of Kickassia that i really liked; mostly seeing all of TGWTG staff in one place and playing off each other.
Well, yeah. It's not 100% bad. Brad Jones single-handedly saves any scene he's featured in, and he has the only line I remember, "Yeah, I'm not talking to you anymore." Yes, it's all in the delivery.

Spoony is mostly good, with some caveats.

Easily the best joke in the whole thing, is 2D Lee becoming 3D and being constantly awed by the dimension we inhabit, and every scene with him is consequently charming and hilarious.

Strangely, Kevin "President" Baugh wound up acquitting himself rather well, generally funnier than much of the quasi-professional comic talent.

Altogether makes for about a watchable tenth, though.

Little moments. I was really disappointed with Lindsay's part though; even aside from the Palin impersonation taking up almost the entire thing, she was hardly in it (though I understand the behind-the-scenes reason). Definitely didn't even approach the Team Brawl though.
It's a bit of a shame. I mean, the premise is inherently kinda funny. It just went off the rails, and so quickly. It goes back to what I was saying about Linkara. It needed less slapstick--it's not even that I don't like slapstick, it's just most of these guys aren't good at slapstick. They're good at snark.

The other major problem, and it might have been unavoidable, was the size of the cast. At some point, someone--presumably Walker--needed to make a decision that not everybody needed have a line every two minutes, or have a camera pointed at them in every scene. Unfortunately, since this was pretty much a "fun project," no one was willing to make that decision.

It also hurt that there wasn't the budget to really fuck up Kevin Baugh's house, but I don't hold that against it. :p
 
Last edited:
The Red Letter Medias(Plinketts) movie reviews are definetly one of the best ones on youtube, funny and to the point.
He really does tear the SW prequels to pieces:lol:
I just hope we get the Episode III review before Xmas or maybe then..as a gift to all his fans:techman:
 
His plot analysis is exhaustive and substantive. He doesn't nitpick
Yes, he does.

he outlines the ways the narrative is hollow or half-thought.
Give me a blank piece of paper and a pencil, and I'll write a 1000 word essay outlining the ways the narrative is hollow and half-thought in Star Wars, The Empire Strikes Back and in Return of the Jedi.

Star Wars isn't Kafka. It's a blockbuster, a pop corn movie.

Lousy dialogue and bad acting combined with excessive overuse of CGI is what makes prequels so underwhelming, not the narrative, IMO.

Much of it is stuff I observed when I first saw the movie - like how the problem with the much derided politics isn't that it's politics but that it makes no sense
You've obviously never lived in a country where politics rarely ever make sense... Where politicians make speeches that sound like bad stand-up comedy routines... Where governments make decisions which make you wonder whether you've been teleported into some twisted bizzaro universe where everything is upside-down...

Plinkett's "reviews" are a great show, but a critic he is not. Nor he's trying to be, IMO.
 
His plot analysis is exhaustive and substantive. He doesn't nitpick
Yes, he does.
Granted. I meant to say he doesn't 'just' nitpick, not sure why I forgot that word. Ether way unerring laziness on my part, apologies.

he outlines the ways the narrative is hollow or half-thought.
Give me a blank piece of paper and a pencil, and I'll write a 1000 word essay outlining the ways the narrative is hollow and half-thought in Star Wars, The Empire Strikes Back and in Return of the Jedi.

Be my guest.

You've obviously never lived in a country where politics rarely ever make sense... Where politicians make speeches that sound like bad stand-up comedy routines... Where governments make decisions which make you wonder whether you've been teleported into some twisted bizzaro universe where everything is upside-down...

I live in Ireland.

So yeah.

But the political conundrum in The Phantom Menace isn't at all like Fianna Fail's wonderfully inept handling of the bailout, or the general economic climate that led to the collapse in 2008.

Those things make sense in a simple 'right, poor decision making, but I can see what the crooks in office wanted out of their job here'.

Why a blockade of Naboo affects the taxation of trade routes and what the Trade Federation actually gains in invading Naboo aren't clear nor do they make sense in the context of the film.

Really, the more the film talks about politics, the less we know.
Plinkett's "reviews" are a great show, but a critic he is not. .
Again I'm speaking in the context of video reviewers. I wasn't saying Plinkett is Pauline Kael, here, but he does include more actual criticism in this reviews then many of his peers. The distinction is a simple yardstick: Many reviewers just say 'it sucks' without adequately articulating why it sucks, just stringing along fanboy complaints and bad camp until the video concludes.
 
I live in Ireland.

So yeah.
I live in Croatia (supposedly we are huge pals with you guys :D )... You might have (or might have not) heard about our former prime minister (2003-2009) being arrested under serous corruption charges (the guy publicly cries "we're broke", then spends nearly a million of tax payers' dollars on a bullet proof BMW :lol: ).

Anyway, the way I see Palpatine's game, he orchestrated the invasion of his own homeworld to score some points and became the chancellor...

Then he orchestrated an unnecessary war just to destabilize the republic and get rid of the Jedi, a war which would allow him to produce a military machinery which the Republic lacked, and without which he couldn't have ruled with an iron fist once he proclaimed himself emperor.

The Separatist movement provided the necessary "menace factor", something the citizens would fear so much that they would even surrender their freedoms in order to feel protected (sounds familiar?). The war itself provided the "chaos factor", which Palpatine needed to introduce his solution - The Empire!

Sadly, Lucas never really worked out the details of this game, that's way it turned out so... Retarded. Yeah, retarded.
 
You might have (or might have not) heard about our former prime minister (2003-2009) being arrested under serous corruption charges (the guy publicly cries "we're broke", then spends nearly a million of tax payers' dollars on a bullet proof BMW :lol: ).
Can't say I have. But heck, at least you arrested him. Charlie Haughey (whose illict personal fortune was so large he bought his own island as he was urging people to show greater financial austerity) went to the grave untried.

Anyway, the way I see Palpatine's game, he orchestrated the invasion of his own homeworld to score some points and became the chancellor...
Yeah, I understand that bit. As a broad plan that makes sense (although in the particulars it's a little dependent on a lot of dumb luck).

I just have no idea what exactly the Trade Federation's motives are in this.
 
I just have no idea what exactly the Trade Federation's motives are in this.
Money? He may have promised them all kinds of concessions and what not, once he rose to power. He just needed a minute alone with Nute Gunray to do force mind tricks on him. :lol:

I reckon the Sith would be even more proficient in the whole mind trick art, than the pacifist Jedi. :D

Those Trade Federation clowns struck me as some kind of Ferengi minus the brains anyway...
 
The Trade Federation's reasons for blockading Naboo (As well as other elements of TPM's politics) are made more clear in the novels, specifically Cloak of Deception. Of course, Plinkett ignores that material, as do a lot of fans.


BTW I don't think the Clones were 'good' really-it's quite clear they become the Stormtroopers from the armor design, and of course they kill the Jedi in ROTS.


The EU does have a few clones who question Order 66, and even one that eventually joins the Rebellion!


One thing I wouldn't have done is made all the Clone Troopers digital in both films (except for scenes where we see their faces, where they appear as identical to Boba, Jango, or in-between). The worst part of this is when Commander Cody hands the lightsaber to Kenobi, when it's clear it's Temura Morrison's face on a digital body.
 
The Trade Federation's reasons for blockading Naboo (As well as other elements of TPM's politics) are made more clear in the novels, specifically Cloak of Deception. Of course, Plinkett ignores that material, as do a lot of fans.

And rightly so.

Plinkett does acknowledge he's ignoring the novels, however, and I'd agree with his reasons. If you need supplementary material to explain the basic plot of your film then your film failed in conveying its own plot.
 
cool20star20wars20photo.jpg


No matter how many times I've seen this image, it still gets to me.

But at least the CGI environments looked decent in ROTS, unlike in the AOTC where those cartoonish looking digital mate paintings robbed the movie of any illusion of reality.
 
cool20star20wars20photo.jpg


No matter how many times I've seen this image, it still gets to me.

But at least the CGI environments looked decent in ROTS, unlike in the AOTC where those cartoonish looking digital mate paintings robbed the movie of any illusion of reality.


Thats because most of the environments in ROTS were infact large scale models that were augmented with CG, than enitrely CG.

(Utapau and Mustafar spring to mind as being practical. I think some of Coruscant may have been too).
 
(Utapau and Mustafar spring to mind as being practical. I think some of Coruscant may have been too).
No, I think Coruscant was all-CG, but a damn good one though.

And this is one of the things I liked about ROTS. They've taken a lot of stuff that looked like crap in AOTC, and redone it to look as it should have in the first place.

For example:

Coruscant looking like shit in AOTC:



Coruscant looking as it should in ROTS:



Naboo looking completely fake in AOTC:



Naboo looking really nice in ROTS:



A video-game looking Jedi temple hallway in AOTC



That same hallway looking as it should in ROTS:



And I still remember going "WTF" after seeing this cartoonish little horror for the first time:

 
Honestly, the CGI large-scale environments are the least of the PTs problems. Why not focus on the inside environments -- the ones the actors actually had to interact with? That's far more relevant to genuine and compelling performances and story execution than the look of the planet. I mean, who here really ever bothered seriously criticizing the shitty matte paintings for the shield generator on Endor?
 
(Utapau and Mustafar spring to mind as being practical. I think some of Coruscant may have been too).
No, I think Coruscant was all-CG, but a damn good one though.

They definitely had models for a good chunk of Coruscant in all three films. The book "Sculpting a Galaxy" has pictures of models for the skyscrapers, Padme's apartment, nightclub district, and Dex's diner and surrounding areas. Ditto for most of the environments -- in AOTC, all the Kamino interiors were models, as were the Jedi Temple sets, and much of the Geonosis architecture.

I think what shot them in the foot on AOTC was that it was ILM's first time working with an all-digital shoot, and the requirements for both building and filming the miniatures were different from using film stock. They obviously took what they learned and improved their methods in time for ROTS.
 
I mean, who here really ever bothered seriously criticizing the shitty matte paintings for the shield generator on Endor?
I never thought those were shitty...
iconscratch.gif

Because they are almost entirely irrelevant to the movie -- almost no one was paying attention. Just like the digital "mattes" you posted above don't matter one whit. Why not critique the actual environments the actors had to interact with? Just 1/6 of your previous post did that. The rest? Who cares? There are far bigger issues with the PT than Naboo looking better in ROTS than it did in AOTC.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top