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13-year old not allowed to fly American flag at school.

The First Amendment certainly does apply to children, because if it didn't there's a lot of other amendments that could be argued don't apply to them. The Amendments apply to everyone. And the government cannot cause you for "forfeit" your rights. Such and idea is an affront to the foundation and principles of this country about the whole thing where the government works for us.

Second Amendment rights definitely don't apply to schools though.

And I said it before and I'll say it again: don't call me "sir". I'm not your father and I'm not an officer. If you are going to hide behind a façade of false "politeness" to pretend you are above actual debate, at least use the correct title and call me Doctor.

I'm curious; isn't "sir" just a generic term, like "ma'am" or "miss"?

Then again, Rush Limbaugh is a raging hypocrite himself
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:lol:


Borg, not Dalek. ;)
 
I'm curious; isn't "sir" just a generic term, like "ma'am" or "miss"?

it can be, it can also be used in an insulting or sarcastic manner and in this instance the poster probably intended it to be the latter.
 
And I said it before and I'll say it again: don't call me "sir". I'm not your father and I'm not an officer. If you are going to hide behind a façade of false "politeness" to pretend you are above actual debate, at least use the correct title and call me Doctor.

I'm curious; isn't "sir" just a generic term, like "ma'am" or "miss"?

Yes, but it depends on the context. In this context it comes off sarcastic and condescending, like you're more civil and above it all because you discuss things in the tone of a 19th century debate instead of just talking like a normal modern person having a conversation over the internet instead of sending messages back and forth on a telegraph. Might as well just type STOP after every sentence too.
 
I'm curious; isn't "sir" just a generic term, like "ma'am" or "miss"?
More or less. It's usually reserved for figures of respect and authority (officers, teachers, elders, etc.) or by a salesperson to a customer. But that's not the point. I don't object in principle: actually, I don't care at all. But when it's used to convey a false sense of respect or politeness, or to pretend you are above the discussion, at least people should use the correct form, or no form at all. Ultimately, I would prefer to have a mature discussion, but if someone wants to play, I feel free to jump in the game. ;)

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Borg, not Dalek. ;)
We definitively need a Dalek smiley.
 
Question:

Does the worship of the American Flag fall under Church or State?

I don't think it can be both and the US has them separated for a very good reason.

Not really. The only exception is with Jehova's Witnesses, where their religion prohibits pledging allegiances to symbols. But that's not a separation issue, but a free practice issue (and they don't have to recite the pledge if they don't want to).

I'd also dispute the suggestion that what people are doing is technically worship. And, even if it was, there would be no mandate from the government to do so, so there would be no issue of needing a separation between church and state.

I'm not sure if you've thought this through entirely.

Oh, Alidar Jarok, you had me at Tinker v. Des Moines.
 
I am in agreement with a Constitutional Amendment to make the burning of the flag of the United States of America illegal. As I said, that flag is a symbol of my country. I also took another oath: I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

From wikipedia:
The Pledge of Allegiance of the United States is an oath of loyalty to the national flag and the republic of the United States of America...
Some of you praise the right of an angry mob to desecrate the American flag, yet decry those who would defend that same flag.
 
I am in agreement with a Constitutional Amendment to make the burning of the flag of the United States of America illegal. As I said, that flag is a symbol of my country. I also took another oath: I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Yeah, while we're on the subject, that's bizarre. Is there not an inherent contradiction in kids standing there being instructed to chant a mandatory pledge about liberty for all? Not to mention the 'under God' part which has had enough posts dedicated to it already.
 
I am in agreement with a Constitutional Amendment to make the burning of the flag of the United States of America illegal. As I said, that flag is a symbol of my country. I also took another oath: I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

From wikipedia:
The Pledge of Allegiance of the United States is an oath of loyalty to the national flag and the republic of the United States of America...
Some of you praise the right of an angry mob to desecrate the American flag, yet decry those who would defend that same flag.

Wow, you really are the master of misrepresenting people's arguments, aren't you? Who has praised the example of the kids vandalizing a flag they didn't own? No one even defended the legality of that, as opposed to burning your own flag which is perfectly legal even if you disagree with it.

Yes, we decry those that would bludgeon teenagers over vandalizing a flag. Those who wouldn't have questionable morals and judgment.

If you believe a child should pledge allegiance, you're supposed to pledge allegiance to what the flag and the country stands for, not to the actual piece of cloth itself. Symbols are meaningless without something to symbolize. In this case it symbolizes the principles of the United States as codified in the Constitution; principles a constitutional amendment to ban flag burning pisses all over. It's a shame in all your fervor to defend the flag itself that you completely missed the entire point.
 
Well here in the United States we have a first amendment that protects our right to fly any flag we want to. It serves nobody to step on such rights.
We were careful at my own school, a bunch of us cadets in AFJROTC decided that if shit went down we'd break out the drill rifles (demilled, but heavy and good for bludgeoning) and rally round the flag. Fortunately we didn't have to.
I am proud to know you. Many of my fellow veterans have fought and died for the flag: the SYMBOL of our nation and its freedoms.

You two are quite scary.
 
I am in agreement with a Constitutional Amendment to make the burning of the flag of the United States of America illegal. As I said, that flag is a symbol of my country. I also took another oath: I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

From wikipedia:
The Pledge of Allegiance of the United States is an oath of loyalty to the national flag and the republic of the United States of America...
Some of you praise the right of an angry mob to desecrate the American flag, yet decry those who would defend that same flag.

I'm sure you know this picture:

pledge.jpg
 
I am in agreement with a Constitutional Amendment to make the burning of the flag of the United States of America illegal. As I said, that flag is a symbol of my country. I also took another oath: I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

From wikipedia:
The Pledge of Allegiance of the United States is an oath of loyalty to the national flag and the republic of the United States of America...
Some of you praise the right of an angry mob to desecrate the American flag, yet decry those who would defend that same flag.

I'm sure you know this picture:

pledge.jpg

That's a cute picture and all but despite the similarity to the Italian fascist's and later the Nazi's Roman-inspired salute (which is why FDR switched it to the hand over the heart) the earlier Bellamy salute has nothing to do with Nazi ideology and nationalism. You're just Godwinning the thread and mucking up a valid argument.
 
I am in agreement with a Constitutional Amendment to make the burning of the flag of the United States of America illegal. As I said, that flag is a symbol of my country. I also took another oath: I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

From wikipedia:
Some of you praise the right of an angry mob to desecrate the American flag, yet decry those who would defend that same flag.

I'm sure you know this picture:

pledge.jpg

That's a cute picture and all but despite the similarity to the Italian fascist's and later the Nazi's Roman-inspired salute (which is why FDR switched it to the hand over the heart) the earlier Bellamy salute has nothing to do with Nazi ideology and nationalism. You're just Godwinning the thread and mucking up a valid argument.

I'm not equating it to Nazism (well, perhaps a bit). But the image is creepy as hell to me as a German.

Personally I find any organized chanting of oaths, pledges, hymns or prayers very, very uncomfortable to watch and listen to.
 
I'm not equating it to Nazism (well, perhaps a bit). But the image is creepy as hell to me as a German.

C'mon dude, of course you're equating to Nazism, and not just "a bit." :lol:

Personally I find any organized chanting of oaths, pledges, hymns or prayers very, very uncomfortable to watch and listen to.
Perfectly understandable. If we went through the same situation Germany did we would most likely feel the same way. Many people do even without having gone through it.
 
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