I'm not "outraged," I just have a hard time believing an American flag on someone's bike is the least bit provocative unless you're looking for a reason to be offended.
13-year old not allowed to fly American flag at school.
- Thread starter Tiberius Jim
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I'm not "outraged," I just have a hard time believing an American flag on someone's bike is the least bit provocative unless you're looking for a reason to be offended.
^ Besides, this *is* America. Flying a country's own flag, on its own soil, cannot by definition be provocative. Other flags, OTOH, might be. The school might have an interest in banning them, but not the US flag.
Put simply, why should any country (or at least a school in that country) allow any flag other than its own?
Put simply, why should any country (or at least a school in that country) allow any flag other than its own?
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I've had a Japanese flag on my leather jacket for years. I've seen both the US and British flags used as decorative items, as pins or patches. Military jackets were kinda fashionable in my days, and they come with all kind of flags. Sometimes a flag is just a coloured piece of cloth.
Here's my $0.02 on the whole issue--in the style of Dennis Miller:
I am amazed at all those who make such a big deal over people displaying the flag. For goodness sake, aren't these the same people who allow Hispanic kids (I'm 1/4 Hispanic, BTW) to fly the Mexican flag on the 4th of July--and yet forbid kids from flying the American flag on Cinco de Mayo!
It's also worth noting that these people are perfectly fine with people buring the flag (it's "freedom of expression")--but apparently, not with flying it on a bike. (It's called "nationalism".)
I also get a kick out of these people who look at patriotism, and scoff at it as if it's a bad thing. Patriotism is, literaly, "love and devotion to one's country". The Left, as a rule, is not "unpatriotic". Those radicals who stomp on the flag, burn it, and denounce America as America, ARE "unpatriotic". (The Right has these pinheads, too, folks--this is not a Left/Right issue, per se.)
Frankly...if I were to go into England--say, to attend Oxford--I would NOT be offended at all the Union Jacks around me!
If anyone has a problem with seeing the Star-Spangled Banner--I have this to say: get a life.
You live in America, expect to see American flags. Otherwise...I don't know what the heck you're doing here.
(BTW...as for the ranting about Rush Limabugh's alleged "drug hypocrisy"...
1. All those quotes come from 1993-1995--all years before his own addiction.
2. Those quotes have him condemn addiction to honest-to-goodness illegal drugs. Rush was addicted to Oxycontin--which was PRESCRIBED to him by doctors for his BACK. NEVER did he condemn those addicted to prescription drugs. Yes, they have the risk of addiction--but if you're going to slam it, shouldn't you aim your anger at the doctors?
3. Following his addiction and recovery, Rush has since applied the lessons learned, and has often spoken about how addiction sneaks up on you, and you don't realize you're addicted until it's in full force. He understands the plight of addicts--but that does not mean he is any less uncompromising in his views against illegal drugs.)
I am amazed at all those who make such a big deal over people displaying the flag. For goodness sake, aren't these the same people who allow Hispanic kids (I'm 1/4 Hispanic, BTW) to fly the Mexican flag on the 4th of July--and yet forbid kids from flying the American flag on Cinco de Mayo!
It's also worth noting that these people are perfectly fine with people buring the flag (it's "freedom of expression")--but apparently, not with flying it on a bike. (It's called "nationalism".)
I also get a kick out of these people who look at patriotism, and scoff at it as if it's a bad thing. Patriotism is, literaly, "love and devotion to one's country". The Left, as a rule, is not "unpatriotic". Those radicals who stomp on the flag, burn it, and denounce America as America, ARE "unpatriotic". (The Right has these pinheads, too, folks--this is not a Left/Right issue, per se.)
Frankly...if I were to go into England--say, to attend Oxford--I would NOT be offended at all the Union Jacks around me!
If anyone has a problem with seeing the Star-Spangled Banner--I have this to say: get a life.
You live in America, expect to see American flags. Otherwise...I don't know what the heck you're doing here.
(BTW...as for the ranting about Rush Limabugh's alleged "drug hypocrisy"...
1. All those quotes come from 1993-1995--all years before his own addiction.
2. Those quotes have him condemn addiction to honest-to-goodness illegal drugs. Rush was addicted to Oxycontin--which was PRESCRIBED to him by doctors for his BACK. NEVER did he condemn those addicted to prescription drugs. Yes, they have the risk of addiction--but if you're going to slam it, shouldn't you aim your anger at the doctors?
3. Following his addiction and recovery, Rush has since applied the lessons learned, and has often spoken about how addiction sneaks up on you, and you don't realize you're addicted until it's in full force. He understands the plight of addicts--but that does not mean he is any less uncompromising in his views against illegal drugs.)
I'm so thankful you posted this because no one said anything even remotely similar in the previous 85 posts.
I guess now we know who notified the mods about that.
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Seriously, who is "perfectly fine" with burning the American flag? This never happens (in America, anyway). This is a made up problem.
Ask anyone who served in the military: what do they do with a worn-out flag? They...get ready...BURN IT!!
So one kind of flag burning is okay (when you're conveying respect), and another kind is not okay (when you're conveying contempt or anger). The only difference is what you're saying when you do it.
How is that not a freedom of speech issue?
I'm just expressing my opinion. Call it impassioned confirmation.
It does not...bother you, does it?
Oh, sure. So all the controvery, and the Flag Protection Act, was all redundant, then?
Of course--and as a Boy Scout who has taken part in such a ritual, it is done in a respectful, solemn manner--NOTHING like the disgracefull acts by Those People.
So you admit it is not a made-up problem?
Obviously, I am expressing a point about the hypocrisy of protecting contempt for the flag as "free expression", while smearing proud, passionate displayal of said flag as "offensive nationalism".
I don't think anyone here said it was offensive nationalism. And, as others in this thread have said, it's not quite clear why the school originally asked the boy to not display the flag on his bike so it's quite a stretch to argue that that was what they were thinking. You're making a lot of assumptions here, Rush, that others might find insulting.
Oh, sure. So all the controvery, and the Flag Protection Act, was all redundant, then?
Of course--and as a Boy Scout who has taken part in such a ritual, it is done in a respectful, solemn manner--NOTHING like the disgracefull acts by Those People.
So you admit it is not a made-up problem?
Obviously, I am expressing a point about the hypocrisy of protecting contempt for the flag as "free expression", while smearing proud, passionate displayal of said flag as "offensive nationalism".
You missed the point entirely.
Flag burning is not a problem. It's a red herring. It's a made up issue. That doesn't mean we can't have a philosophical discussion about how trying to ban it relates to free speech. In other words, attempting to amend the Constitution to ban flag burning IS an issue. Actual real flag burning is not.
Basically what it boils down to is that the right wing is asking...GASP...the Federal Government(!!) to protect them from speech they don't like by making it illegal.
Imagine the gnashing of teeth and tearing of garments were the shoe on the other foot!! Many on the right howl against hate crime legislation as an infringement on free speech rights, but are okay with this?
The hypocrisy runs both ways here.
^Sir...my original comment was not directed in any refutation to that effect. I never brought up whether I thought they were allowed to burn the flag. Frankly, a case can be made that they are.
Nonetheless, it is you who missed my point. To say that I am "missing the point" is irrational and nonsensical.
I "assumed" nothing. My exact wording is a reference to a recent editorial by my college newspaper--claiming to be the paper's "official opinion", which referred to displaying the flag in classrooms as "nationalism".
Second--in the first few pages of this thread, note the comments to the effect that patriotism is not a good thing. If what I said "might" be found insulting--let me say that I found those aforementioned comments insulting.
Finally, note that last "Cinco de Mayo" (which is not even a real Hispanic "official" holiday--only in the US!), how those students were punished for wearing the American flag on their shirts.
I ask: if there is another reason forbid a kid to have a flag on his bike...what is it? Why doesn't the faculty come out and say it? What is the reason, if it is not PC run amuck?
Nonetheless, it is you who missed my point. To say that I am "missing the point" is irrational and nonsensical.
I "assumed" nothing. My exact wording is a reference to a recent editorial by my college newspaper--claiming to be the paper's "official opinion", which referred to displaying the flag in classrooms as "nationalism".
Second--in the first few pages of this thread, note the comments to the effect that patriotism is not a good thing. If what I said "might" be found insulting--let me say that I found those aforementioned comments insulting.
Finally, note that last "Cinco de Mayo" (which is not even a real Hispanic "official" holiday--only in the US!), how those students were punished for wearing the American flag on their shirts.
I ask: if there is another reason forbid a kid to have a flag on his bike...what is it? Why doesn't the faculty come out and say it? What is the reason, if it is not PC run amuck?
Actually, I'm going to step in here. Local fox is not fox news. There is next to no affiliation. Their connection is they want to run The Simpsons and Family Guy and News Corp owns those programs. There is nothing close to a political mandate. It's simply not Fox News.
Anyway, a "show of force" with the bikers is obnoxious. I don't think the school should have told him to remove the flag, but that is simply not the way to handle it. If you think one side is acting irrationally, don't respond by acting irrationally. It's using a saber as a scalpel.
^ Turnabout is fair play. 
Only if your goal is to piss everybody off and accomplish exactly nothing
Question:
Does the worship of the American Flag fall under Church or State?
I don't think it can be both and the US has them separated for a very good reason.
Does the worship of the American Flag fall under Church or State?
I don't think it can be both and the US has them separated for a very good reason.
Well here in the United States we have a first amendment that protects our right to fly any flag we want to. It serves nobody to step on such rights.
Not really. The only exception is with Jehova's Witnesses, where their religion prohibits pledging allegiances to symbols. But that's not a separation issue, but a free practice issue (and they don't have to recite the pledge if they don't want to).
I'd also dispute the suggestion that what people are doing is technically worship. And, even if it was, there would be no mandate from the government to do so, so there would be no issue of needing a separation between church and state.
I'm not sure if you've thought this through entirely.
I wasn't trying to link Fox40 to FoxNews, more the way that many media reports that come from different media outlets are pretty much regurgitation of the original without independant research and evaluation so that while numerous outlets might carry the story not all of them have chased it for themsevles.
It doesn't apply to school children. Its a government service so you forfeit certain rights when using it.
With that said, reasonable accommodation should be made when possible. And a flag on a bike isn't unreasonable. If he ran through the halls waving it and yelling then it would be disruptive.
As a current resident of California, I find it repugnant that a few years ago we were eerily silent when Hispanic students at So Cal schools stormed the flagpoles on Cinco de Mayo and tore down the US flag and hoisted a Mexican one.
We were careful at my own school, a bunch of us cadets in AFJROTC decided that if shit went down we'd break out the drill rifles (demilled, but heavy and good for bludgeoning) and rally round the flag. Fortunately we didn't have to.
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