Schools make it their major ambition to avoid controversy and confrontation. By their nature, administrators are spineless (and I don't mean that as a bad thing, in some ways, by nature, they have to be).
13-year old not allowed to fly American flag at school.
- Thread starter Tiberius Jim
- Start date
Pretty much how I feel. Banning the flag was ridiculous and
.But the response? A biker escort "rallying around" this kid and making a huge deal out of it? Ew. Just ew. Creepy, distasteful nationalism. Ew.
Just a quick question, that most likely doesn't have a quick or easy answer, but do children have 1st Amendment Rights? I seem to remember that they don't. Or at least not when I was in 8th grade. I also remember students being told not to wear the flag, as it is not clothing and should be treated with respect. I went to a Catholic boys school and there were a lot of rules, the majority of which said what we could and couldn't wear, how long our hair could be, length of facial hair, how to talk to and treat teachers and many others. Now public schools are implementing dress codes, a limiting of free speech (according to some).
In my opinion, kids in school have limited rights. Flags, except those flown by the school itself, should be banned. Not as an anti-American crusade, but as a way of controlling the kids. As was mentioned before, once kids find a weak spot they will exploit it. (As an example, my friend, when he was in high school, got several male students to come to school wearing mini skirts, to protest the schools policy which said boys shorts could not be above the knee, but there was no restriction on how short girls could wear their skirts, about a week later and after being sent home, the school changed the girls dress code to match the boys.)
In my opinion, kids in school have limited rights. Flags, except those flown by the school itself, should be banned. Not as an anti-American crusade, but as a way of controlling the kids. As was mentioned before, once kids find a weak spot they will exploit it. (As an example, my friend, when he was in high school, got several male students to come to school wearing mini skirts, to protest the schools policy which said boys shorts could not be above the knee, but there was no restriction on how short girls could wear their skirts, about a week later and after being sent home, the school changed the girls dress code to match the boys.)
Banning the flag was stupid in the extreme. But somehow the biker escort was even worse. The school let the kid put the flag back on so why this extra nonsense?
Talk about shooting yourselves in the foot. I would have just left that little double standard alone. Who wants to see hairy dude legs anyway?
When I was at high school many years ago, one of my friends was asked to remove a badge that said "God is Love". Her parents kicked up a fuss saying their daughter was being picked on because of her Christian beliefs despite the fact that the wearing of any badge was banned. This included badges with the Australian flag, smiley badges, badges with peace signs, and badges with religious messages.
If this school had a blanket ban on kids displaying any flags - whether it was on their clothes or their bikes etc - I don't think there is anything wrong with the boy being told to remove his flag. The school could still display the US flag in the proper method either on the flag pole, in the classroom or both.
If this school had a blanket ban on kids displaying any flags - whether it was on their clothes or their bikes etc - I don't think there is anything wrong with the boy being told to remove his flag. The school could still display the US flag in the proper method either on the flag pole, in the classroom or both.
I agree.... there's something a bit fucked up about not being able to display the American flag in the United States of America.
We received a notification about your post (yes, really), and I'm afraid we can't allow these kinds of unsubstantiated claims against public figures to happen on this board...
... Which is why we should substantiate that he was both a drug addict and a hypocrite so I don't have to punish you for a non-existent rule:
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We're going to let you destroy your life. We're going to make it easy and then all of us who accept the responsibilities of life and don't destroy our lives on drugs, we'll pay for whatever messes you get into."
-- Rush Limbaugh show, Dec. 9, 1993
"I'm appalled at people who simply want to look at all this abhorrent behavior and say people are going to do drugs anyway let's legalize it. It's a dumb idea. It's a rotten idea and those who are for it are purely 100 percent selfish."
-- Rush Limbaugh show, Dec 9, 1993
"If (Surgeon General Jocelyn Elders) wants to legalize drugs, send the people who want to do drugs to London and Zurich, and let's be rid of them.
-- Rush Limbaugh show, Dec 9, 1993
"There's nothing good about drug use. We know it. It destroys individuals. It destroys families. Drug use destroys societies. Drug use, some might say, is destroying this country. And we have laws against selling drugs, pushing drugs, using drugs, importing drugs. And the laws are good because we know what happens to people in societies and neighborhoods which become consumed by them. And so if people are violating the law by doing drugs, they ought to be accused and they ought to be convicted and they ought to be sent up.
"What this says to me is that too many whites are getting away with drug use. Too many whites are getting away with drug sales. Too many whites are getting away with trafficking in this stuff. The answer to this disparity is not to start letting people out of jail because we're not putting others in jail who are breaking the law. The answer is to go out and find the ones who are getting away with it, convict them and send them up the river, too."
-- Rush Limbaugh show, Oct. 5, 1995
Warrants Detail Rush Limbough's Drug Use
Rush Limbough Arrested on Drug Charges
Rush Limbough Admitted His Addiction and Takes a Deal Requiring Treatment and a $30,000 Payout to Cover Investigative Expenses
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That about covers it. Happy to be of service.
I'm not sure what you mean by "considering the news source" as my link was to only one of many news entities reporting on this story. I'm not really sure why the validity of the story is in question...
However, having bikers enforce patriotic flag-waving as a value does strike me as creepy in its own right. Also funny.I can't help envisioning this as an episode of Sons of Anarchy. I don't know where Denair, CA is, but just the name makes me think it can't be too far from Charming.
Okay, some folks here are clearly misunderstanding the reason for the escort. They weren't trying to intimidate people, nor was it about indoctrination. This was not just a random group of bikers, this wasn't the Hell's Angels. Cody flew his flag in tribute to the men and women in the military, past and present, including his grandfather who is a vet. The people on the bikes were also veterans and supporters. The group my parents belong to is called Warrior's Watch. They will often greet a returning soldier as they arrive home from overseas and give them a motorcycle escort home. It's a way of showing them that people care, as far too many veterans have come home to nothing close to a celebration of their return.
That's what the escort was about...showing this kid that he wasn't alone in his love for his country. If that's what some would call "distasteful nationalism", well I can't say I understand that because I see nothing wrong with expressing love for one's country. Because that's all Cody was doing, and the riders today were simply showing him a gesture in return.
BTW, when the Hell did this thread become a Rush Limbaugh bash-fest? I don't seem to remember him being a part of this story.
The Right Wing knows a propaganda opportunity when they see one.
Because it's Fox.
I don't doubt their hearts were in the right place. I bet groups like that really mean a lot to some in the military and their families. But whether they mean it or not, a parade of hundreds of bikers arriving at a school is intimidating by its very nature.
I don't know the details of what happened at the school previously. I do know that racial tensions in school are seldom simple. What these kids will probably take away from this is not a lesson of tolerance. It's that one side can summon hundreds of bikers at will and get their version of events broadcast right round the globe.
Just my €.02 though.
As always, I fully expect this one incident to become a massive coronary for the right-wing similar to their much-hated "war on Christmas." I bet they'll find a way to link it all to Obama and Pelosi...because, naturally, it's always a huge conspiracy to bring down family values and apple pie.
I guess the message to the school would have been stronger if you were able to write it correctly.
We received a notification about your post (yes, really), and I'm afraid we can't allow these kinds of unsubstantiated claims against public figures to happen on this board...
... Which is why we should substantiate that he was both a drug addict and a hypocrite so I don't have to punish you for a non-existent rule:
(cut)
That about covers it. Happy to be of service.
Oh no, they were just a hundred of sweet, large, hairy bikers rallying around a school, nothing intimidating at all.
You're right. It's an American school. And I agree.
But I was answering to your post about a neutral school. Neutral school and American school are not the same thing.
No, they do. It's just limited slightly with respect to the fact that they're in school, where learning is paramount. The test is supposed to be whether or not the student's speech causes a substantial disruption. I can't say it actually is these days, but it's supposed to be.
While those were the rules established for the flag, they're not laws or anything. But, yeah, you're not supposed to wear the flag except as a part of a uniform.
Dress codes and uniforms are generally allowed because they aren't banning specific speech (it's a content neutral ban).
This might help
Tinker v. Des Moines
We received a notification about your post (yes, really), and I'm afraid we can't allow these kinds of unsubstantiated claims against public figures to happen on this board...
[SNIP of Facts About Rush (the drug-addled hypocrite, not the band)
That about covers it. Happy to be of service.
Post of the Day.As long as the kid wasn't using the flag in an act of bullying (and that would be on a case-by-case basis), then I see no problem with anyone flying the flag. It should be live and let live, not live and let die.
We received a notification about your post (yes, really), and I'm afraid we can't allow these kinds of unsubstantiated claims against public figures to happen on this board...
*snip*
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That about covers it. Happy to be of service.
You've got to be kidding me? Someone notified the moderator about that?
So now we're not allowed to state facts about public figures?
Well, God Bless America! Fly that flag proudly, folks!
PS: Thanks for the assist and the defense, Locutus. Sorry you had to get involved.
If anyone would come to school here with an Italian flag, everybody would think it was for supporting Italy in a football tournament. Nobody would think about nationalism or patriotism or veterans or bikers. I think the same would be true in a lot of other countries as well.
We have lorry drivers who've suddenly started mounting big LED displays on the back of their cabs (behind the driver). The most popular one is the Saltire. In this country displaying blue lights is illegal unless you're one of the emergency services. These blue panels look just like 'blues' from a distance at night. I wonder how they get away with it.
If anyone would come to school here with an Italian flag, everybody would think it was for supporting Italy in a football tournament. Nobody would think about nationalism or patriotism or veterans or bikers. I think the same would be true in a lot of other countries as well.
See, this is what I was trying to get at. Of course the kid can fly his American flag at school. That is not even really an issue (for me anyway).
But I've heard so many times from so many different people from different countries that they find the American style of patriotism/nationalism either silly or scary.
One woman I met from Germany asked me about our "Daily Loyalty Oath" (meaning of course the Pledge of Allegiance). I thought that was an interesting point of view.
From a "Citizen of the World" perspective, I think Americans sometimes do go overboard. And some of these public demonstrations seem downright....creepy.
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