13-year old not allowed to fly American flag at school.

[Alidar Jarok]

I think they seem creepy from a European perspective, where their history is marked with things like this having led to excess. I'm not saying we haven't had problems with too much patriotism, but the worst I can think of is the Red Scare and that eventually fizzled out. So I generally think our normal patriotic displays (flying a flag, saying the pledge, celebrating the fourth) are generally harmless, especially the pledge, which I recited by rote so often when I was a kid I'm surprised I can still recognize individual words (and to the republic for whichistan, one nation undagod, indivisible with libertian justice for all).

 

[Locutus of Bored]

PS: Thanks for the assist and the defense, Locutus. Sorry you had to get involved.

No worries. The notification was so rigoddamndiculous I felt compelled to say something.

 

[Deckerd]

I think they seem creepy from a European perspective, where their history is marked with things like this having led to excess.

Not really. Europeans see it as quirky rather than creepy. If the USA were seen to be more menacing it might be more sinister but not as it stands.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

That's kind of how I hope it would be interpreted, because that's really the extent of it. But I was replying to Digits here. Creepy was his word.

 

[iguana_tonante]

So I generally think our normal patriotic displays (flying a flag, saying the pledge, celebrating the fourth) are generally harmless, especially the pledge, which I recited by rote so often when I was a kid I'm surprised I can still recognize individual words (and to the republic for whichistan, one nation undagod, indivisible with libertian justice for all).

While I agree with you on flag-flying and national celebrations (even tho the flag thing is more immediately linked to sport than patriotism here in Italy, we do celebrate our national holidays quite emphatically, too, especially Liberation Day), the pledge always strikes me in the wrong way. But that's just me, I guess.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

I view it mostly as an identity thing. The ideals of the pledge are actually quite nice. Regardless of ethnicity, we all recognize our common heritage and ideals as Americans.

While I think having children say it can be seen as wrong, it's more counterproductive than anything else. I still don't technically say it correctly. When I was 6, the fact that it was called the "Pledge of Allegiance" stuck in my head, so I would say "I pledge of allegiance". I'm pretty sure I still do that if I don't pay attention to what I say. So, in many ways, it's lost its meaning both as a positive thing (recognizing common values) and as a negative thing (most people aren't actually pledging loyalty).

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Ω especially the pledge, which I recited by rote so often when I was a kid I'm surprised I can still recognize individual words (and to the republic for whichistan, one nation undagod, indivisible with libertian justice for all).

Eed pleb nista?

 

[Sector 7]

When I was a kid there was an American flag in every classroom. Shit, it wasn't even that long ago. And we said the Pledge of Allegiance every day. Have things changed that much?

Unfortunately, the state of our country is such that having pride in The United States of America, saying The Pledge of Allegiance, and respect for veterans is now considered "right wing lunacy". It is a messed up time in which we live.

If this is true-- and one has to wonder considering the news source-- then it's pretty ridiculous. Just more evidence that the Left Wing has become nearly as bad as the Right Wing.

I'm not sure what you mean by "considering the news source" as my link was to only one of many news entities reporting on this story. I'm not really sure why the validity of the story is in question...

While it's stupid to disallow the flag for the sake of some oversensitive, anti-American Hispanic parents (the kids had to get it somewhere), the response with all those bikers is just the kind of creepy nationalism that makes one want to ban ALL flags at schools, simply because it engenders politics which are disruptive to the school. A school should not be a political battleground for the egos of parents, nor a place for indoctrination, it should be neutral.

But the response? A biker escort "rallying around" this kid and making a huge deal out of it? Ew. Just ew. Creepy, distasteful nationalism. Ew.

Banning the flag was stupid in the extreme. But somehow the biker escort was even worse. The school let the kid put the flag back on so why this extra nonsense?

Okay, some folks here are clearly misunderstanding the reason for the escort. They weren't trying to intimidate people, nor was it about indoctrination. This was not just a random group of bikers, this wasn't the Hell's Angels. Cody flew his flag in tribute to the men and women in the military, past and present, including his grandfather who is a vet. The people on the bikes were also veterans and supporters. The group my parents belong to is called Warrior's Watch. They will often greet a returning soldier as they arrive home from overseas and give them a motorcycle escort home. It's a way of showing them that people care, as far too many veterans have come home to nothing close to a celebration of their return.

That's what the escort was about...showing this kid that he wasn't alone in his love for his country. If that's what some would call "distasteful nationalism", well I can't say I understand that because I see nothing wrong with expressing love for one's country. Because that's all Cody was doing, and the riders today were simply showing him a gesture in return.

See my above response. As a disabled veteran who came home without fanfare or anyone caring, I think what Warrior's Watch does is awesome!!! God Bless Warrior's Watch! If I could ride a motorcycle, I would join them. I am neither a right winger nor a teabagger, but I am a patriotic American. I loved my country enough to volunteer, fight and be wounded.

 

[iguana_tonante]

Unfortunately, the state of our country is such that having pride in The United States of America, saying The Pledge of Allegiance, and respect for veterans is now considered "right wing lunacy". It is a messed up time in which we live.

Oh, the drama.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

Unfortunately, the state of our country is such that having pride in The United States of America, saying The Pledge of Allegiance, and respect for veterans is now considered "right wing lunacy". It is a messed up time in which we live.

It is a messed up time. One where up is down, black is white, and the very fabric of reality is warped to such a degree that the things you mention actually happen to any significant degree.

I don't think any of the things you mentioned are right-wing lunacy at all, but thinking that any of those are actually a common problem in the US is.

Seriously, what mainstream group of any sort calls respecting veterans either right-wing or lunacy? Please, enlighten me.

 

[Trekker4747]

Just a quick question, that most likely doesn't have a quick or easy answer, but do children have 1st Amendment Rights?

They're Americans. They have 1st Amendment rights. Your school restricting your rights was done by a Private (Catholic) School. They CAN limit your "rights", they can do that because what they signed up for. Public Schools, paid for on the tax payers' dime. Should not be, by any means, suppress freedom.

 

[Crash]

I don't think any of the things you mentioned are right-wing lunacy at all, but thinking that any of those are actually a common problem in the US is.

That does seem to be the order of the day.

Muslims are building a victory mosque at ground zero.
Hispanics are invading the country.
Welfare queens are stealing your tax dollars.
The country is bankrupt.
The gay agenda is in full force and will teach our youngsters to be fags.
Death panels are included in the health insurance reform bill.
"They" stole our country. We need to take it back.
Obama is a socialist-Nazi-communist-Kenyan-muslim-sleeper-agent who wishes to destroy America.

Did I miss anything, or have I covered the hysterics?

 

[Robert Maxwell]

I don't think any of the things you mentioned are right-wing lunacy at all, but thinking that any of those are actually a common problem in the US is.

That does seem to be the order of the day.

Muslims are building a victory mosque at ground zero.
Hispanics are invading the country.
Welfare queens are stealing your tax dollars.
The country is bankrupt.
The gay agenda is in full force and will teach our youngsters to be fags.
Death panels are included in the health insurance reform bill.
"They" stole our country. We need to take it back.
Obama is a socialist-Nazi-communist-Kenyan-muslim-sleeper-agent who wishes to destroy America.

Did I miss anything, or have I covered the hysterics?

It's a terrifying time to be alive in America.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

The War on Christmas.

 

[Trekker4747]

I don't think any of the things you mentioned are right-wing lunacy at all, but thinking that any of those are actually a common problem in the US is.

That does seem to be the order of the day.

Muslims are building a victory mosque at ground zero.
Hispanics are invading the country.
Welfare queens are stealing your tax dollars.
The country is bankrupt.
The gay agenda is in full force and will teach our youngsters to be fags.
Death panels are included in the health insurance reform bill.
"They" stole our country. We need to take it back.
Obama is a socialist-Nazi-communist-Kenyan-muslim-sleeper-agent who wishes to destroy America.

Did I miss anything, or have I covered the hysterics?

Your kids are being saddles with debt.
Marijuana is evil and will make your kids turn to heroin and meth.
God is being taken out of our lives and needs to be put back in.
Murphy brown is a dirty whore and shouldn't be seen by our kids.
"They" want to take away your guns.
OIL! More OIL!
You need your money to by jets and smoke $100 bills. Fuck those people living check-to-check in an inner city tenement.

I think that covers some more.

 

[Crash]

The War on Christmas.

.... HAPPY HOLIDAYS, man!

 

[Trekker4747]

"Happy Holidays" I've never had a problem with. There are a lot of Holidays this time of year (Hanukkah, Christmas and New Year's being chief among them, though there are others.) I've never read anything too secular into that just that it's trying to be inclusive of everyone and everything going on this time of year. "Happy/Merry Winter Solstice" is far lamer.

Even lame is when people complain about "X-Mas" not knowing what the "X" means, apparently.

 

[1001001]

I don't think any of the things you mentioned are right-wing lunacy at all, but thinking that any of those are actually a common problem in the US is.

That does seem to be the order of the day.

Muslims are building a victory mosque at ground zero.
Hispanics are invading the country.
Welfare queens are stealing your tax dollars.
The country is bankrupt.
The gay agenda is in full force and will teach our youngsters to be fags.
Death panels are included in the health insurance reform bill.
"They" stole our country. We need to take it back.
Obama is a socialist-Nazi-communist-Kenyan-muslim-sleeper-agent who wishes to destroy America.

Did I miss anything, or have I covered the hysterics?

You forgot evolution being a trick of the Devil ("Teach the Controversy!"). Other than that, you're pretty on-target.

The War on Christmas.

When, oh when will the White Christians finally get their say in America???

 

[sidious618]

As always, Rush has the right perspective (the band, not the drug-addled hypocrite)

We received a notification about your post (yes, really), and I'm afraid we can't allow these kinds of unsubstantiated claims against public figures to happen on this board...

<snip>

That about covers it. Happy to be of service.

No reward for figuring out who sent the notification.

God, I love a good Locutus smackdown.

 

[Pemmer Harge]

Why would anyone need to fly a flag around the neighbourhood? Surely everyone already knows what country you're in?