Anyone else think it was wrong for the Federation to win? *Spoilers*

[timelord1010]

Re: Anyone else think it was wrong for the Federation to win? *Spoiler

I don't think it was outright conflict, just the end of their alliance and the start of a brief Cold War. Remember the Klingons stand down at the end of WOTW.


But you're right about Dominion strategy-they were practicing the old conqueror's method of "divide your enemies, take them on one or two at a time, don't let them unite against you."

That's why the Dominion didn't want the Romulans to join the Fed-Klingon alliance-they were going to deal with them after the other two powers were defeated.

The Dominion also tricked the Romulans and Cardassian security forces (Tal Shiar and Obsidian Order) to try and attack the founders homeworld in "The Die is Cast" and I believe the founder pretending to be a Romulan even said that the Federation wouldn't be a threat for much longer.

 

[timelord1010]

Re: Anyone else think it was wrong for the Federation to win? *Spoiler

"Divide and Conquer" is hardly exclusive to Star Wars...

No, but it's rare to see it done in Sci-fi until DS9 and the Star Wars prequels, before then it was usually direct conflict with maybe a Pearl Harbor / Battlestar Galactica style surprise attack.

 

[TheGodBen]

Re: Anyone else think it was wrong for the Federation to win? *Spoiler

The Shadows did it in B5.

 

[Anwar]

Re: Anyone else think it was wrong for the Federation to win? *Spoiler

Well, the Shadows weren't exactly out to "Conquer" anyone. For them it was more "Manipulate and foster war" for their BS philosophy.

 

[DS9 Gal AZ]

Re: Anyone else think it was wrong for the Federation to win? *Spoiler

The Feds never would have won if the Prophets hadn't been blocking reinforcements from the Gamma Quadrant from coming through the wormhole. And even w/o the reinforcements, the Dominion still had a damn good chance of winning. If they had been able to keep the AQ powers squabbling amongst each other instead of uniting they would've won easily. But even united, the Romulan-Klingon-Federation-Whatever-other-minor-powers alliance was hard-pressed to beat them. The clincher was really the Cardassians turning on them, I think.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Re: Anyone else think it was wrong for the Federation to win? *Spoiler

More on the subject of the plague-it was basically a war crime, so was it actually authorized by certain Starfleet officials? If so, were they prosecuted? It's not like you should get a pass on war crimes if you win.

But you do.

Still, this is Star Trek, not the real world. Oh-so-holy Starfleet couldn't have been in on the plague, so the cure could not be used as a bargaining chip. S31 presumably just wanted to kill off the Founders and not bargain about anything. Which is wise. A peace negotiated with people against whom you committed attempted genocide is not likely to last.

I don't know if anyone mentioned this but the only way the Dominion even had a chance to beat the Federation, Klingons, and Romulans is to trick them into fighting each other so by the time the Dominion decided to directly attack the three Alpha Quadrant powers a good percentage of their forces were destroyed and the Dominion was fighting much weaker fleets.
Weren't the Federation and Klingons fighting each other for almost a year before the Dominion attacked?

I thought that was their strategy for a while. But it's like they got impatient and wanted to get in on the fun, and that was a dire mistake!

 

[black_dranzer]

Re: Anyone else think it was wrong for the Federation to win? *Spoiler

I thought that was their strategy for a while. But it's like they got impatient and wanted to get in on the fun, and that was a dire mistake!

I guess it was the issue of weighing the advantage of maybe keeping the Alpha Quadrant powers in a state of low-scale warfare for a few more years, or gain a major foothold in the Quadrant with existing infrastructure without sustaining even a single loss in the form of absorbing the Cardassian Union as a willing member. Both strategies had merits and disadvantages, the Founders just happened to choose the foothold...

I remember reading somewhere that the Dominion actually knew about the Federation already before the discovery of the wormhole, and had plans to deal with them but weren't expecting to have the wormhole thrust the Federation into their back yard, so the Dominion War was just some kind of holding action - nice if they won, but not a huge disaster if they didn't.

Also, thinking about it - was it ever stated that the Dominion only became aware of the wormhole when the Alpha Quadrant powers did? For all we know, there could have been Changeling infiltrators in the Alpha Quadrant for decades

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Re: Anyone else think it was wrong for the Federation to win? *Spoiler

Also, thinking about it - was it ever stated that the Dominion only became aware of the wormhole when the Alpha Quadrant powers did?

I don't think that was every addressed one way or the other. The Dominion acted like it was a surprise...

It also was never definitively stated whether the Dominion was an oppressive empire bent on conquest or a pack of paranoid loonies that would leave you alone if you left them alone. If they're the former, then that peace treaty the Feds signed was a very dumb idea.

 

[black_dranzer]

Re: Anyone else think it was wrong for the Federation to win? *Spoiler

Also, thinking about it - was it ever stated that the Dominion only became aware of the wormhole when the Alpha Quadrant powers did?

I don't think that was every addressed one way or the other. The Dominion acted like it was a surprise...

But then, the Dominion also acted like they were a benevolent and helpful coalition of world....until you did something they don't like and they send in the Jem'Hadar

It also was never definitively stated whether the Dominion was an oppressive empire bent on conquest or a pack of paranoid loonies that would leave you alone if you left them alone. If they're the former, then that peace treaty the Feds signed was a very dumb idea.

Given the Founders' innate need to bring order to the universe, I can't see them leaving anyone alone indefinitely. A single planet maybe, if it stays quiet and doesn't openly defy them, but a power the size of the Federation/Klingons/Romulans? No chance, in my opinion...

 

[CommanderRaytas]

Re: Anyone else think it was wrong for the Federation to win? *Spoiler

Anyone who thinks the Federation advanced faster than the Dominion is wrong. The only reason the Federation won the war, is because of the actions taken by the Prophets. Imagine the Dominion with its full force descending down on the Alpha Quadrant. It was kind of a weak deus ex machina in my opinion, but the Federation was destined to win. After all, it is a show about humans

I don't think it was deus ex machina at all. At its core, the show was about Sisko, Bajor, and their relationship with the Prophets. When Sisko begged them to intervene, it was the first time he had asked them to do anything, and it was the latest step in his embracing of his role as the Emissary. It wasn't free though, it came at a cost - he nearly lost Jake, he lost Jadzia, and in the end he lost his mortal life.

I tried rationalising it like this to myself too, once upon a time. But really? It was one hell of a deus ex machina. Brought to you by your local god-like whatever! If that isn't the biggest irony of all.... it would be funny if it wasn't so horribly lame.