Sarah Jane Adventures: Series 4

[Cutter John]

Re back to the 'political agenda' thing. DW has always had a pretty liberal slant anyway hasn't it? I can't keep track of how many 'evil corperations' have turned up over the years.

The Colonel: As there was no mention of a charred corpse by the door, I like to think she managed a miraculous escape. Someone on GB even put forward the idea that the Trickster might have spirited her away. Thats his thing after all. I just want to know what her backstory was and what she lost to make her turn.

So I'm guessing the Doctor did a lot of computer checks (that damn Tardis computer knows everything!) on past companions as well as visiting his more recent ones. I doubt he paid a visit to all of them.

In general, I had a few nitpicky gripes with the story, but overall I adored the whole thing. Only wish my allergies hadn't kept flaring up damnit!

 

[Whofan]

Regarding Ian and Barbera, they were sent home in a Dalek time machine, and it's said once or twice in the classic series that the Dalek time-travel technology (Which uses a "corridor" as oppossed to a vortex) is nowhere near as refined as the time lords. (This is sort of corroborated by the new series as well, the Temporal shifts seem to have some side effects.)

So it's possible that there was some side effects.


As for Ace, it's nice to finally have some resolution to her. The various WHO spin-off media have like a zillion different fates for her.


Although you've got to wonder, what about the companions who died? Did the Doctor pop in and save Adric at the last minute?

 

[OmahaStar]

Did the Doctor pop in and save Adric at the last minute?

Yes.

 

[The Wormhole]

Although you've got to wonder, what about the companions who died? Did the Doctor pop in and save Adric at the last minute?

I would imagine he just visited them at a point prior to when he met them, like he did with Rose.

 

[Whofan]

^Which would've been still difficult , considering Adric lived in another universe

 

[The]

For one, the gay rights thing, this is a kid's show. Like, really a kid's show beyond Doctor Who. So, they shouldn't dare get into sexuality either way.

You know, I have two cousins. The older cousin, Donna, has two children: Jim (5) and Sue (3). My younger cousin, Donna's sister sister, is Sarah. Sarah is a lesbian and has been in a committed relationship with another woman named Alex for the entirety of Jim's and Sue's lives. (All the names are pseudonyms for privacy's sake.)

I don't want Jim and Sue growing up in a world where nobody around them every acknowledges to them that Auntie Sarah and Auntie Alex are different from other people. I don't want Jim and Sue growing up getting the message that the fact that there are people like their aunts is something that's bad and should be avoided in the programs designed for them. I don't want them growing up thinking there's something weird or bad about Auntie Sarah and Auntie Alex. And I don't want stories that are designed for their ages groups to avoid acknowledging that LGBT people exist.

Because, hey, guess what? They're being raised with the help of their gay aunts. And that's as valid as any heterosexual relationship, it's as much a part of Jim's and Sue's lives as the heterosexual relationship that their mom and dad are in, and I don't think there's any good reason to say that children's media (such as The Sarah Jane Adventures) "shouldn't dare get into sexuality either way."

Well, you're wrong. Because it's easy to jump on your normal bandwagon tropes, Sci, and I know you love a good cause. But, when I say they shouldn't address sexuality in a show either way, I mean it. Not because you have some example that will make you feel better about yourself, and promote your life in the views of others. But, because it's a fucking children's show. Children don't deserve to be saddled with all the insecurities grown-ups have about sex, (and thus have to have their life constantly revolve around their sex life or sexual orientation) and especially not because some hack writer who's dying to make sure the world knows about gay people thinks it's "kewl". I'm sure it's fulfilling on some level to have an "agenda" but trying to brainwash kids with sexual propaganda isn't one I can support.

I'm really glad the Doctor isn't as malicious and mean-spirited of a bully as you seem to want him to be. That's not how you're supposed to talk to someone you love.

Ding-ding-ding! Congrats, you were able to squeeze in the current buzz-word in society, "bully". First, it was "racist", but then we elected a black man as President. So, that doesn't hold water anymore. Time to move on to "bully", where the Soap Opera Elite can make grandstands about their moral superiority. You are serving your cause well, Sci...

I know! It's just awful, imagining that the Doctor inspired people to dedicate their lives to making the world a better place. Just terrible and boring.

But, see, she didn't make the world a better place. All she did was run around to any haphazard "event" and "protest". That's not supporting a cause, or bettering the world. That's just protesting. Wanting to be heard because you think you know best. It doesn't change anything, except to make the protester feel as if they have accomplished something. Warm-fuzzies for everyone! Meanwhile, Sarah is actually doing something to pro-actively save the world. Jo is just a political puppet, like most all of her kind.

You're not responding to what RTD actually wrote, you're responding to your own assumptions about what the "activist trope" means.

Correct, I am responding to his normal anti-military, pro-liberal, pro-gay, anti-intelligence agenda. He cannot help but smear everything he writes with his own beliefs, and thus is not a good writer. Good writers can get past their need to insert a sexual reference into a children's show, or resist their desire to seem "kewl" in front of their peers and leave out the kindergarten-level political agenda. RTD is obviously incapable of such a thing.

(And anyone who tries to claim that non-violent activism doesn't accomplish anything can kiss Martin Luther King's ass.)

I like how you just compared Jo's insipid life with MLK. Obviously you have no internal gauge when it comes to the actual relevance of what makes the world work. But, no matter. You just keep defending RTD to the floor, man. I'm sure he'll come by and pick you up in his arms one day, and then you two can fly around the world righting wrongs and being so much better than the rest of the "plebes" on Earth...

 

[The]

So I'm guessing the Doctor did a lot of computer checks (that damn Tardis computer knows everything!) on past companions as well as visiting his more recent ones. I doubt he paid a visit to all of them.

Absolutely. It's ludicrous to think otherwise. And, to a point, I'd rather just accept that he only visited the nuCompanions.

Otherwise, it's a selfish move on RTD's part, to eliminate the possibilities for other writers. He's always saying "Oh you can't show the Time War because it's so much better in your imagination!" But, see, in my imagination, Ace, Tegan, Ian, Barbara, and all the rest have different, much better ends than to just think they saw the entire universe, and came back to Earth to insert themselves into the corporate and socio-political games of the world. So, what that tells me is, instead of having the balls to bring down the corruption of the system (like The Doctor has on most every world he's visited) they instead become one of the billions of cogs in the system? That's how The Doctor makes them "better"? Got it, Russel...

 

[wamdue]

right so part two, a better episdoe than the first, even if whole thing was "memory creates problem, memory solves problem". Moving on I was not the only one to express concern about the Sanseeth, but the costume was not as bad as the trailer suggested. The voice could have had a bit more passion in it however.

RTDs takes the chance to stamp his view across pretty much all of Classic Who, first we find out that the 10th Doctor went to see other companions (with his body dying, im very surprised he had the time), and then goes on to give all the other compaions, post Doctor lives, im sure Big Finish will be thrilled to see all there hard work written off in a few lines like that.

The Colonel: As there was no mention of a charred corpse by the door, I like to think she managed a miraculous escape. Someone on GB even put forward the idea that the Trickster might have spirited her away. Thats his thing after all. I just want to know what her backstory was and what she lost to make her turn.

I like the idea of her returning with the Trickester, however just because the Doctor didnt mention her dead body, does not mean she didnt die, this is CBBC after all, your only allowed to kill Siltheen.

Santiago was ok, nice back story, would be in no way surprised to see him return at some stage, he could replace Luke even.

Not sure what to make of the "507" comment, but it did come after Cylde was talking about the Doctors eyes, and crawling backwards for his life, was just looking for an answer that wouldnt distract from the crawling backwards for his life.

The clips featured, maybe a few too many, but not totally over done, the Doctor mentioning Mona Lisa to Raini was assuming, he would struggle to impress Rani or Cylde if they were to become companions.

Matt Smith looks even younger than usual when stood with Sarah & Jo, unavoidable maybe.

 

[captcalhoun]

i enjoyed it and i'm pretty sure Sarah-Jane said 'Dorothea' not Dorothy...

 

[Allyn Gibson]

we find out that the 10th Doctor went to see other companions (with his body dying, im very surprised he had the time)

As a joke back after New Years, I wrote out a really short fanfic on the morning commute. (Two handwritten pages, that's how short.) Basically, the premise was that the Doctor kept going and visiting people, and he realized, after he'd spent a week making visits to everyone and everyone, plus a very intense romantic (ahem) weekend spent with Lady Christina, that he was going to be okay.

So, then he goes to visit Rose, just to be sure, exactly as we saw in "The End of Time, Part Two." Only, we learn what really made him regenerate.

Rose maced him. Because he was a creepy weirdo who knew her name.

Of course, the Doctor doesn't want to remember it that way, so he remembers what we saw in "The End of Time, Part Two." The staggering about? He couldn't see. Thinking he couldn't make it back to the TARDIS? Do you know how fucking bad mace burns?

I'll have to find what I did with it. I write really strange stuff at times out of boredom.

Santiago was ok, nice back story, would be in no way surprised to see him return at some stage, he could replace Luke even.

I really thought that was the plan. Why introduce the character and spend valuable story time on him if he's not going to be important? So when he takes off with Jo at the end, I was like, "RTD? Why did you have this character? There was absolutely no need for him in the story."

*sigh*

 

[VDCNI]

Well, you're wrong. Because it's easy to jump on your normal bandwagon tropes, Sci, and I know you love a good cause. But, when I say they shouldn't address sexuality in a show either way, I mean it. Not because you have some example that will make you feel better about yourself, and promote your life in the views of others. But, because it's a fucking children's show. Children don't deserve to be saddled with all the insecurities grown-ups have about sex, (and thus have to have their life constantly revolve around their sex life or sexual orientation) and especially not because some hack writer who's dying to make sure the world knows about gay people thinks it's "kewl". I'm sure it's fulfilling on some level to have an "agenda" but trying to brainwash kids with sexual propaganda isn't one I can support.

But there haven't been any sexual references in SJA have there?

 

[VDCNI]

we find out that the 10th Doctor went to see other companions (with his body dying, im very surprised he had the time)

As a joke back after New Years, I wrote out a really short fanfic on the morning commute. (Two handwritten pages, that's how short.) Basically, the premise was that the Doctor kept going and visiting people, and he realized, after he'd spent a week making visits to everyone and everyone, plus a very intense romantic (ahem) weekend spent with Lady Christina, that he was going to be okay.

So, then he goes to visit Rose, just to be sure, exactly as we saw in "The End of Time, Part Two." Only, we learn what really made him regenerate.

Rose maced him. Because he was a creepy weirdo who knew her name.

Of course, the Doctor doesn't want to remember it that way, so he remembers what we saw in "The End of Time, Part Two." The staggering about? He couldn't see. Thinking he couldn't make it back to the TARDIS? Do you know how fucking bad mace burns?

I'll have to find what I did with it. I write really strange stuff at times out of boredom.

Santiago was ok, nice back story, would be in no way surprised to see him return at some stage, he could replace Luke even.

I really thought that was the plan. Why introduce the character and spend valuable story time on him if he's not going to be important? So when he takes off with Jo at the end, I was like, "RTD? Why did you have this character? There was absolutely no need for him in the story."

*sigh*

Maybe Luke was originally in this script? Or maybe he felt the need to show Jo's family rather than just tell us about it.

 

[wamdue]

Santiago was ok, nice back story, would be in no way surprised to see him return at some stage, he could replace Luke even.

I really thought that was the plan. Why introduce the character and spend valuable story time on him if he's not going to be important? So when he takes off with Jo at the end, I was like, "RTD? Why did you have this character? There was absolutely no need for him in the story."

*sigh*

I think its a case of "someone new for Sarah Jane" and "someone new for Rani & Cylde" the two qge groups, he also served to flesh out Jos family, maybe if this wasnt a CBBC show he might not have been created.

That said im not too surprised he didnt stick around, we know they are filming the two sasons back to back, so I would not put it past RTDs to think he is clever, introduce the Luke replacement mid season, and bring him back at the start of next season.

and the idea that the Doctor visited all his previous companions takes away from the idea that the 10th Doctor was worried HE was going to die, rather than The Doctor was about to die.

 

[The Wormhole]

^Which would've been still difficult , considering Adric lived in another universe

Well, I do have limited knowledge of classic Who. I haven't even seen any stories with Adric yet.

In which case, maybe he popped in while Adric was with whichever Doctor he travelled with and just stayed really well hidden from his past self. For that matter, he'd have to do the exact same thing if he visited Romana, since that's the only way to get around the Time Lock cutting off Gallifrey.

I don't know. This could have been avoided if they just had the Doctor say he randomly ended up whereever it was he said he ran into Jo. That would be plausible. Instead, he had to track every companion down. Just imagine if they had shown him meeting everyone. You'd need another 60 minute episode.

 

[Bones2]

Are we really entertaining the idea that the Tenth Doctor dragged out his awful regeneration even longer to take in some classic companions too? When he said he'd looked in on Jo and some others (or whatever he said), I took it to mean at some point other than when he was meant to be dying.

 

[Cutter John]

RTDs takes the chance to stamp his view across pretty much all of Classic Who, first we find out that the 10th Doctor went to see other companions (with his body dying, im very surprised he had the time), and then goes on to give all the other compaions, post Doctor lives, im sure Big Finish will be thrilled to see all there hard work written off in a few lines like that.

The folks at BF are adults. I'm sure they knew they were taking that risk when they started. Especially when the show came back on the air.

Are we really entertaining the idea that the Tenth Doctor dragged out his awful regeneration even longer to take in some classic companions too? When he said he'd looked in on Jo and some others (or whatever he said), I took it to mean at some point other than when he was meant to be dying.

Well you heard my explaination. If Sarah could find info on Teagan, Ben, and Polly on the internet, the Tardis database should have no problem at all digging up life stories for some of the others.

 

[Saga]

Are we really entertaining the idea that the Tenth Doctor dragged out his awful regeneration even longer to take in some classic companions too? When he said he'd looked in on Jo and some others (or whatever he said), I took it to mean at some point other than when he was meant to be dying.

agreed. i doubt he actually took the time to visit each companion.

 

[Sci]

Well, you're wrong. Because it's easy to jump on your normal bandwagon tropes, Sci, and I know you love a good cause. But, when I say they shouldn't address sexuality in a show either way, I mean it. Not because you have some example that will make you feel better about yourself, and promote your life in the views of others. But, because it's a fucking children's show. Children don't deserve to be saddled with all the insecurities grown-ups have about sex, (and thus have to have their life constantly revolve around their sex life or sexual orientation) and especially not because some hack writer who's dying to make sure the world knows about gay people thinks it's "kewl". I'm sure it's fulfilling on some level to have an "agenda" but trying to brainwash kids with sexual propaganda isn't one I can support.

Lovely to hear that you want families like mine to be ignored and for my cousins' children to grow up thinking there's something wrong with their aunts, all in the name of protecting children from being "brainwashed" with "sexual propaganda." Very accepting of other people's families, that attitude.

As though it's even possible to avoid sexuality! Any time children see their parents kiss, they're exposed to sexuality. Any time they see a boy and a girl hold hands, they're exposed to sexuality. Hell, any time a child asks why mommy has breasts or what the difference is between boys and girls or where babies come from, they're exposed to sexuality.

The issue is not exposure to sexuality, the issue is exposure to levels and manifestations of sexuality that are appropriate to the audience's age levels and that are not psychologically harmful to children. There's nothing intrinsically harmful about the idea of homosexuality; hell, I was told what gay people were at the age of five ("When a man and a man or a woman and a woman fall in love instead of a man and a woman") and I didn't find it any more disturbing than the idea of a man and a woman falling in love, which I'd already seen depictions of a million times in Disney movies and children's fairy tales.

It is irrational to refrain from depicting LGBT persons in children's media. LGBT persons and their sexualities should be depicted in children's media in the same manner that heterosexuals are (i.e., no, we don't hear about their intimate acts, but we do see people who are in love, who have made commitments to one another, who express their sexuality in ways like short kisses or hand-holding that aren't psychologically damaging to children and to which children are exposed all the time by heterosexual parents). But to say that they should be ignored, should be rendered invisible, simply because you find the topic uncomfortable?

By that logic, there should be no black people in children's media, either -- after all, that might mean we'd have to explain what race is and what racism means. We might actually have to tell children about the fact that people aren't all the same! How horrible.

Well, you're wrong. Because it's easy to jump on your normal bandwagon tropes, Sci, and I know you love a good cause. But, when I say they shouldn't address sexuality in a show either way, I mean it. Not because you have some example that will make you feel better about yourself, and promote your life in the views of others. But, because it's a fucking children's show. Children don't deserve to be saddled with all the insecurities grown-ups have about sex, (and thus have to have their life constantly revolve around their sex life or sexual orientation) and especially not because some hack writer who's dying to make sure the world knows about gay people thinks it's "kewl". I'm sure it's fulfilling on some level to have an "agenda" but trying to brainwash kids with sexual propaganda isn't one I can support.

But there haven't been any sexual references in SJA have there?

The only sexual references I've noticed in the episodes I've seen (Invasion of the Bane, The Wedding of Sarah Jane Smith, and, now, Death of the Doctor) were Sarah Jane's getting married and Luke getting distracted by how pretty Rani looked, both in The Wedding of Sarah Jane Smith. (And, yes, a depiction of a heterosexual marriage is as much a sexual reference as a hypothetical same-sex marriage would be.)

It's just The going on an anti-RTD rant. "I stubbed my toe! GODDAMN YOU, RUSSELL T. DAVIES!"

 

[The Wormhole]

Are we really entertaining the idea that the Tenth Doctor dragged out his awful regeneration even longer to take in some classic companions too? When he said he'd looked in on Jo and some others (or whatever he said), I took it to mean at some point other than when he was meant to be dying.

Unfortunately the Doctor actually does say to Jo he looked in on her "the last time I died." That's the actual quote. So it would seem the intention was that the Tenth Doctor tracked everyone down and visited them, despite having been exposed to a lethal dose of radiation and close to death.

I don't like this at all. The sequence as seen in The End of Time was pushing it as it was, but I accepted it since the RTD era was ending, this sort of helped make it a finale. But now, apparentally it went on even longer. That's why I said in my previous post the Doctor should have just said he randomly ended up at the same spot as Jo once. Yeah, it's unlikely, but things like that do happen.

 

[Starkers]

He didn't just track them down, he tracked many of them down at specific points where they were in danger (Luke, Martha and Mickey) which must have complicated the process. It seemed a trifle silly when he did it with just a handful, to imagine himdoing it to litereally dozens of people stretches credulity. (especially factoring in the fact that he visited two relatives of someone he knew into the bargain!)

Like I've said before though, if he'd said to Wilf something along the lines of... "It's started. No way back now but I can probably hold it off for a while, a few days, a week maybe. Long enough..." I'd have accepted it. It would have still been silly, but not as silly.

And I say this as someone who quite liked some aspects of Ten's farewell tour