confusedmatthew's DS9 season seven review

[Zeppster]

As for the Lion King I would agree with him there too. I don't get why everyone likes that movie because there is no protagonist in the movie.

Just because you can't warm up to a character with flaws doesn't mean the movie has no protagonist. I think you called Simba psychotic as a kid earlier in the thread . . . why, because he got into trouble? Jesus Christ, you've obviously never seen or talked to a child in your life if you think Simba was nuts.

I was a kid when that movie came out and he annoyed the hell out of me. Here's Simba the first part of that movie. "I'm the king the world, and no one else matters" He was not in the least bit likable. And then as an older lion he just didn't really care.

Also the big plot hole that movie about Simba saying he was dead obviously if someone says Simba is dead and he comes back at the end someone was obviously lying and it can't be Simba like they think. There is nothing good about the Lion King other than it has some decent songs.

 

[Char Aznable]

I was a kid when that movie came out and he annoyed the hell out of me. Here's Simba the first part of that movie. "I'm the king the world, and no one else matters" He was not in the least bit likable. And then as an older lion he just didn't really care.

That's called CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT. He starts off as an obnoxious kid who, "just can't wait to be king," and knows nothing of what that really means. His dad dies, so he runs off and befriends some lazy bums who teach him the easy way of life. So, he becomes lazy like them and forgets his troubles. Then, the old ape comes to Simba and reminds him of his responsibilities and need to honor his father. This is called a character arc.

Also the big plot hole that movie about Simba saying he was dead obviously if someone says Simba is dead and he comes back at the end someone was obviously lying and it can't be Simba like they think. There is nothing good about the Lion King other than it has some decent songs.

Ok, if you want to debate with someone about good movie making and writing, please learn to write properly yourself. I have no clue what your babbling about here. You're either misremembering or making things up.

 

[Saquist]

Confused Mathew is foul mouth twit that gets your jollies by the use of rants and expletives. I'm sure the uncultured juveniles and the rebelious love it but their easy to please any way just throw some blood in front of them

I used to watch him when he was milder and he made more sense but now it's OLD and EXCESSIVE. He wants your views so he gives you what you want which is a you tube staple.

 

[Zeppster]

Ok, if you want to debate with someone about good movie making and writing, please learn to write properly yourself. I have no clue what your babbling about here. You're either misremembering or making things up.

Here's the last scene with the bad guy(who was no more bad than Simba IMO) saying that Simba killed his dad. Even though he said earlier in the film that Simba and his dad were dead.

So basically they believe a guy that already lied about what happened. And also what exactly did Simba do to kill his dad? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING! He didn't cause the stampede that killed his dad. He's a little tiny cub so he had no chance of saving his dad. Also he never showed any signs up till then that he really cared about his dad. He was basically a psychopath from all of his actions til that point.

 

[Admiral Shran]

And also what exactly did Simba do to kill his dad? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING! He didn't cause the stampede that killed his dad.

From Simba's perspective, he thought he did. He thought the echo of his roar started the stampede. The fact that Scar and the hyenias actually caused it is immaterial. We, as the audience, know this. Simba, however, does not know it until Scar tells him (which I think is a valid criticism CM has - why would Scar, for no reason, just up and tell him that he killed Mufasa? )

The big problem I have with CM anymore is that he expects things to be spoon-fed to him in terms of story, plot, and character development. He can't put two and two together on his own. His main criticism of this part of the movie is that there is no explanation for why Simba believes he is responsible for Mufasa's death. Well, what does he want exactly? For Simba to go running up to Scar and, over the corpse of his father, launch into a detailed exposition scene of how it is his roar and the echo of it that caused the stampede in the first place? IMO, that seems to be what he wants, since he's essentially saying "THIS ISN'T EXPLAINED TO ME AND I DON'T WANT TO WASTE MY PRECIOUS TIME THINKING FOR MYSELF! WAH WAH WAH! WOE IS FUCKING ME! "

Also he never showed any signs up till then that he really cared about his dad.

How so? Because he disobeyed him in going to the Elephant Graveyard? You must really have never spent time around kids, especially spoiled ones, if you think they never disobey their parents.

And, it's clearly shown in the scene immediately after Mufasa rescues them from the hyenias, when he "teaches Simba a lesson," that they do care for each other - "We're pals, right?"

 

[Char Aznable]

however, does not know it until Scar tells him (which I think is a valid criticism CM has - why would Scar, for no reason, just up and tell him that he killed Mufasa? )

Not really. Its a common trope in fiction for the villain (when he feels he's won or is about to kill the hero) to reveal the final brush stroke of his plan or, in this case, how wicked he truly is in order to pour salt on Simba's wound.

So, yeah. CM doesn't know what he's talking about.

 

[Char Aznable]

Basically, the weakest season of DS9 is still better than the best season of VOY.

 

[FalTorPan]

I thought most of season seven was crap, and I enjoyed the program on the whole.

 

[Bones2]

Basically, the weakest season of DS9 is still better than the best season of VOY.

Nah. Over in the DS9 versus thread I've come to the conclusion that, at the very least, VOY's season 5 is better than DS9's season 7.

 

[DevilEyes]

Basically, the weakest season of DS9 is still better than the best season of VOY.

Nah. Over in the DS9 versus thread I've come to the conclusion that, at the very least, VOY's season 5 is better than DS9's season 7.

No, it's not.

However, VOY season 4 is better than DS9 season 1. Even though none of VOY episodes comes close to "Duet".

 

[RyuRoots]

Basically, the weakest season of DS9 is still better than the best season of VOY.

Nah. Over in the DS9 versus thread I've come to the conclusion that, at the very least, VOY's season 5 is better than DS9's season 7.

Oh, hell no. I'm in the minority that thinks S7 was the best of the show (tied with S6), but just...god, no. If ANY Season of VOY could compete with DS9 it sure as hell wouldn't be 5 (I'd say VOY S4, though I'm not sure it's quite up there with the last two seasons of DS9).

 

[Saquist]

Basically, the weakest season of DS9 is still better than the best season of VOY.

Seasons 1-2 of DS9 were a cure for insomnia.
If I had to watch Kira's flavor of the week boyfriend episodes one more time I could die.

There was NEVER a WHOLE season of VOYAGER that was that boring. Every Season had some very interesting episodes even admist the corny holographic episodes. Even worse we have to tolerate the soap style of DS9's story-telling. If that's your thing kewl, but don't ever, EVA,EVA say DS9's weak season weren't anything more than paint drying monotony.

Voyagers Weak Season were like Season 7 of DS9. Just lazy writing....not very engaging but watchable...that's general how Voyager was in the last 2-3 seasons....

But I've always said that Voyager was always just plain Smarter than DS9, like TNG. It followed the mystery and moral road better.

 

[Char Aznable]

But I've always said that Voyager was always just plain Smarter than DS9

Voyager

Smarter than DS9

It followed the mystery and moral road better.

So, because VOY's characters were always morally upright and never made compromising decisions, it was somehow smarter than the show that depicted its conflicts as shades of grey? Y'know, like how the world actually is?

 

[TheGodBen]

Seasons 1-2 of DS9 were a cure for insomnia.
If I had to watch Kira's flavor of the week boyfriend episodes one more time I could die.

You make a valid point, except for the fact that Kira had no romance-of-the-week episodes in seasons 1 or 2... or 3, 4, 5, 6 or 7. She had a long-term relationship with Bareil in seasons 2 and 3, another long-term relationship with Shakaar in seasons 4 and 5, and a final relationship with Odo in seasons 6 and 7. The only romance-of-the-week she had was in season 6 with Mirror Bareil, and that was based on her feelings for "her" Bareil. In season 3, Thomas Riker kissed her, and she had a make-out session with Bashir while under the influence of horny-flu, but both those events were minor and took place while she was dating Bareil.

Can anybody think of any others?

There was NEVER a WHOLE season of VOYAGER that was that boring. Every Season had some very interesting episodes even admist the corny holographic episodes. Even worse we have to tolerate the soap style of DS9's story-telling. If that's your thing kewl, but don't ever, EVA,EVA say DS9's weak season weren't anything more than paint drying monotony.

They were much more. Season 1 isn't great and is easily the worst season of DS9, but even that season balances out to average due to some great episodes like Duet. Season 2 is actually pretty damn good, there's a slump in the middle of the season, but the opening group of episodes is very strong, as is the final 8 or so.

Personally, I feel that no season of DS9 even comes near to how bad Voyager's 3rd season is. Don't get me wrong, VOY season 3 has some great episodes, and Scorpion is a classic, but the majority of that season was somewhere between horrendous and underwhelming.

But I've always said that Voyager was always just plain Smarter than DS9, like TNG. It followed the mystery and moral road better.

I disagree, Voyager tended to stay away from moral issues, and on several of the occasions when they did broach the subject they tended to screw it up somehow, such as the end of Alliances or Nothing Human.

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

I just watched Scorpion, one of Voyager's big episodes and was surprised by how convenient it was that Janeway was seriously injured (neural damage even!) for exactly seven minutes of episode time, long enough for Chakotay to do exactly the opposite of what she wanted, then she takes command again..


Voyager is so far below DS9 in every conceivable way.

 

[Zeppster]

Voyager is flat out bad. There's just not much to like about that show or Enterprise. They always just technobabble their way to a reset button. If Voyager was a little more like Year of Hell but for 6 or 7 seasons and not near as bad obviously. That show would have kicked ass.

 

[Bones2]

Voyager is flat out bad. There's just not much to like about that show or Enterprise. They always just technobabble their way to a reset button. If Voyager was a little more like Year of Hell but for 6 or 7 seasons and not near as bad obviously. That show would have kicked ass.

Nah, Voyager had some terrific stories. If I'm honest, it's probably on a par with TNG for me, which after all had a dismal first two seasons and was capable of a tedious clunker with the best of them. And I'd take the latter two seasons of Enterprise over a fair bit of DS9.