confusedmatthew's DS9 season seven review

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

FBTS is well-written, well-acted and an interesting take on what could and could not be accepted in 1950s America. Yet it also seems to be a masturbatory fest pointing out how brave DS9 is for having a black actor in the lead role. Whereas, I feel much more is said and done by seeing Sisko do his job and raise his son.

I totally agree here. I think a much stronger statement was made when race was NOT a big deal, than when it was made one.

You're actually quoting me not CordrazineOD. Speaking of which...

Sisko also ponders his racial consciousness in Badda Bing Badda Bang when he objects to the sanitized, historically inaccurate setting of a Vegas club that, were it depicted accurately for the period, would have discriminated against African American patronage. He's bothered by the historical revision, even if it is for purposes of entertainment in a holosuite, because he appreciates how important it is that humanity never, ever forget the oppressive and exploitative aspects of Earth's history. It's intellectual indignation from someone who believes in preserving accurate historical depictions.

Yet, Sisko had to be reminded of Earth's racial segregation and oppression by Quark in "Jem'Hadar," among other Earth historical atrocities. And I find that conversation a better discussion of race and history than what transpires in "Badda Bing Badda Bang," especially in the juxtaposition of the alien telling the black man about race. I think that says more than anything in the Vic Fontane episode.

Moreover, I've find Sisko's objections in that episode to ring false as if hammered in and not organic to both the character of Sisko or the story. Now, one can say it is because of FBTS and his experience as Benny Russell but that's stretching it for me.

Sisko's ties to his cultural/ethnic heritage were only trotted out as a convenience to the writers and that to me isn't progressive, rather I find it blatantly exploitative. The scene where he gets irate with Cassidy for participating in the program is so stereotypical of many portrayals of racial issues, and very cliche -- the angry black man trope.

And that to me is detrimental to the stronger image of Sisko as a career officer, a good father, a good husband and a person.

 

[Myasishchev]

^I dunno, if you wanted, you could kind of see it as an arc--Quark puts the idea in his head, he thinks it over from time to time (perhaps particularly when he goes back and becomes Gabriel Bell although afaik there's no overt racism in that ep). Years later he has the Benny Russel vision, and after that especially he's kind of sensitive about it. He effectively "lived" a whole life in the 1950s, all the memories of Benny--his childhood to his fall--are still with him... so a "whitewashed" recreation of a 1950s/early 1960s nightclub is bound to rub him the wrong way.

It's like Picard and his damned flute.

The arc ends with Kasidy gently telling him he's an idiot. He accepts it and plays along with their "ridiculous" game, despite historical inaccuracy.

You know, for my money, screw CM when it comes to his opinions of FBTS and Benny.

Benny Russel as a character-in-his-own-right/version of Sisko should have been followed so much more thoroughly than he was... after Shadows and Symbols, I expected it to have huge payoff in the Prophet v. Pagh Wraiths arc... and ultimately it didn't.

Hell, it could've made that nonsense interesting.

A metaphysical confrontation between Sisko and Dukat on 1950s Earth would have been so much more fulfilling than the superhero fight in the fire cave.

Dukat having a historical alter ego on old-timey Cardassia might have been a good addition too...

 

[Eddie Roth]

Wow, listening to that guy really has that train wreck factor. Somehow you can't stop looking (listening in this case) although it's just painful. Nowhere and at no time in the 17 years I have followed Star Trek and Star Trek reviews have I ever heard such petty and needlessly nitpicky ramblings delivered in such an immature fashion, with that angry tone as if the Star Trek writers had, with their well-intentioned entertainment, somehow burned his hometown to the ground, desecrated his grandmother's grave and killed his infant firstborn. Ridiculous. Man, if a "regular" person hears this, they'll just have all their prejudices about Trekkies confirmed and then some...

A few days ago, I watched this video of his about "awful Voyager moments", which, to be honest, the series had quite a lot of. But the moments he picks are a line about "no time!" coming from a time traveler; and debating the logic of why an alien civilization is hostile towards Voyager after technology from an Earth probe poisoned their planet. Huh? What about the lizard babies? That Irish holodeck village? Species 8472 giving Janeway flowers? Oh well... those were probably just "STOOOOOPID", now "awful".

You know, beating on Star Trek Generations... that's deserved. Voyager, too, in many cases. But Deep Space Nine? Really? Sure, Dukat's motivations. Yeah. But if that is all so "STOOOOOPID" then how could He Who Is My Confused Namesake EVER watch 90% of Star Trek episodes? Isn't Khan stupid for not destroying Regula One when he has Kirk trapped there? Isn't Gary Mitchell stupid for getting himself killed by a falling rock when he has godlike powers?

This whole thing just has this "Angry Young Man" vibe going on that I find grating in the extreme. It's so forced and self-absorbed. But it produces in me the feeling that we Germans call Fremdscham. You know, feeling ashamed for something someone else does. And that can be an addictive thing.... Kind of makes you feel good that you yourself are not this crazy.

 

[TheGodBen]

My big problem was his complaint in part three where he says that it is stupid and unrealistic that Sisko would go back to Earth because it wasn't helping get anything done.

I have, unfortunately, gone through moments in my life where I lost all hope and felt great pressure and pain upon me. How did I deal with it? I slided under my armchair and stayed there for hours on end because it was my claustrophobic comfort place. It sounds pathetic, and I'm sure I looked stupid with my legs sticking out from under a chair, but that is where I needed to be because it was the only place I could go to feel calm. Sometimes in a moment of crisis you need to find a place that brings you comfort, and once you are ready you can begin to deal with the problems you face. The time it takes to get to that point varies, but considering the fact that he felt he lost one of his oldest friends and a spiritual connection to his gods, I can absolutely believe that he would stay at his father's restaurant for three months trying to emotionally adapt.

I feel the same way about his complaints against Winn in part four; I felt she was absolutely consistent with her character. And even though I feel that evil Dukat wasn't as interesting as regular Dukat, I also feel that his mental breakdown was consistent with his character.

Just because a character doesn't act the way you would in their situation doesn't mean that the character is acting unrealistically.

 

[Eddie Roth]

Indeed! Which just goes to show the reviewer's immaturity.

 

[TheGodBen]

Indeed! Which just goes to show the reviewer's immaturity.

Thanks for saying that, I couldn't say it in the same post where I admitted to hiding from life under an armchair.

 

[Myasishchev]

I did find it kind of odd that he left Starfleet in the middle of a war. Stop-loss?

 

[CorporalClegg]

Holy Christ!

That's 40 minutes of my life I'm never going to get back!

Indeed! Which just goes to show the reviewer's immaturity.

Exactly. I was thinking the same thing as I was watching. Or really, I was thinking "Has this guy ever been laid?!" Or more to the point: in a meaningful relationship.

I also found it interesting when whiny, emo Stan was ranting about whiny, emo Ezri.

In any case, I came away with two observations:

1.) This guy has zero concept of theme and subplot. Maybe instead of wasting his time with these self-indulgent, narcissistic rants he should crack open a book or two.

2.) He didn't really watch the show. Pretty much every complaint, nitpick, whatever, he went on, and on, and on, and on, and on about could be traced back to a story device used in an earlier season/episode.

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

I generally agree with the argument on Matthew on the last episode of season 6 and the first couple of season 7. HOWEVER, I do not agree that season 7 is worse than the entire VOY, or even as bad. I love the season aside from those episodes. And I loved Jadgia way more than Ezri, even though I didn't really have an issue with her.

Anyway, I feel his argument about Dukat is spot-on. It never made sense that he wouldn't blame Damar for it. And blaming Sisko for it was even worse.

Yeah, I hated those three episodes (Season 6 finale, season 7's first two).

 

[Saito S]

GodBen, Eddie Roth, and CorporalClegg: THANK YOU for so neatly summing up so much of what was wrong with that review!
I have no problem with someone disagreeing with me on what was good or bad in a TV show. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and some of CM's review falls into that category (like his points about Dukat losing it from Tears of the Prophets on, which I happen to disagree with: I found that entire plot thread effective. But that's just my opinion, no more or less valid than his). But as you pointed out Corporal, there were so many points in those videos where I found myself saying "Uh... dude, your complaint doesn't make sense, cause of (thing X from episode Y of season Z)." I felt like he wasn't making legit criticisms as much as just missing stuff.

Case in point (Warning: this is LONG! But I wanted to be sure I'm making my points clearly. Also, I'm a windbag; so sue me): There are a couple of parts in the "season 7 review" during those first two vids (the parts that focused almost entirely on Tears of the Prophets) which not only make me question if he actually paid attention during the rest of the series, because of how easily they can be refuted by just remembering things from other shows (or by using common sense!) but also constitute a MASSIVE self-contradiction on his part. These videos were the first of his works I'd ever seen, and this damaged his credibility well beyond repair for me.

Here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqWyr7cDcks&feature=channel_page (the part beginning at 5:45) is the first part. He rags on the writers for having Ross tell Sisko that the time has come to choose between being a Starfleet captain and being the Emissary, saying "you can't be both." CM attacks the writers on this by pointing out that Sisko HAS been both for quite a while, and it hasn't impacted his duties (in fact, Ross just gave him a medal, which CM makes a BIG deal out of). CM goes on to point out that, in fact, Sisko's connection to the Prophets has had a direct and positive (for the Feds) impact, by stopping the Dominion reinforcments from coming through the wormhole in Sacrifice of Angels.
IMO, CM totally missed the mark here. Starfleet has NEVER been comfortable with Sisko being the Emissary; the show has made that VERY clear overtime. They accept that the Bajorans think of them as Prophets, but to Starfleet, they are an advanced alien lilfeform that lives in the wormhole. Ross gave Sisko a medal because of his actions during Operation Return; that doesn't mean he approves of Sisko's role as the Emissary any more than he already did. As for the Prohpets interfering in the war... I wouldn't be at all surprised to hear that Starfleet Command doesn't completely buy that "the Prophets" interfered cause "the Emissary" asked them to. Starfleet has been shown to be a little thick-headed at times when it comes to needing to ascribe a rational, scientific explanation to EVERYTHING, so it wouldn't surprise me if they don't really accept that explanation. CM says "you'd think they'd be inclined to listen to the Prophets like... well, like they always have." I submit that Starfleet has never listened to the Prophets. They respect the Bajoran belief and (barely) tolerate Sisko's role in it, but that's as far as it goes. I don't think this exchange was at ALL out of character for Ross.

The second thing is here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUGxisKfkH4&feature=related, at 1:40. He again gives the writers grief, this time over Dukat's declaration that the wormhole closing is a good thing, wheras Weyoun obviously doesn't agree. Dukat's explanation is that the Bajorans have been cut off from their gods, and Sisko has been cut off from the Prophets. In Dukat's eyes, this is all AWESOME; Damar and Weyoun are a little less enthused. CM rails on this, citing that there is NO reason to believe that closing the wormhole will have any positive effect for the Dominion war effort, and goes on to cite this as an example of "Voyager level stupid".

Excuse me, but... I believe you missed the point of the scene, Mr. Matthew. He comes at it like the show is trying to present Dukat as making a rational, logical, well thought-out point. HE'S NOT. Neither the audience nor Damar and Weyoun (especially Weyoun) are meant to take Dukat seriously. He's saying these things cause he's GOING STARK RAVING MAD. Weather or not one likes the whole "Dukat goes batso" plot thread is a seperate issue, but THAT is the only reason he's trying to convince anyone that the wormhole closing is good for the Dominion. The television show is certainly not trying to push Dukat's point on the viewer as being true, so why does CM feel that it IS?

And now the massive contradiction. In part one, he rails on the writers for having Ross tell Sisko he can't be both. CM says this makes no sense cause he has been both, and points out that in fact, Sisko's role as the Emissary has had a POSITIVE (for Starfleet) impact on the war. In part two, he rails against the writers for having Dukat try to convince Weyoun and Damar that closing the wormhole is good for them. CM says this is dumb writing since, in his words, "The Prophets have absolutely nothing to do with how Sisko manages himself in the war!" and "Just another Starfleet captain is all Sisko has ever been when it comes to fighting the war!"

Right! Except... except... for the VERY HEAVY and VERY DIRECT involvement from the Prophets - at the request of Sisko - in Sacrifice of Angels, as CM himself pointed out (actually... more like "hammered into your brain") in part one!!

So to sum up!

Part one: "OMFG what's wrong with these writers! Why is Ross refusing to acknowledge that the Prophets HAVE played a part in the war, and that Sisko has managed to be both a Starfleet captain and the Emissary and it's been fine! ARRGH!"

Part two: "OMFG what's wrong with these writers! Why is Dukat trying to convince them that cutting Sisko off from the Prophets is important? Why would anyone think that the Prophets or Sisko's role as the Emissary has affected the war in ANY WAY, since they CLEARLY haven't! ARRGH!"



Yeah. I don't put any stock in anything he says cause of that.

 

[Navaros]

The latest part is once again 'reviewing' only the Dukat/Winn/PahWraith /wormhole alien angle whilst neglecting all the other great aspects of Season 7.

He added some Vic bashing to it, and that's it. Still not a "Season 7" review, since Season 7 has a lot more going on that just that. LOL

Not sure why he harps on and on about the PahWraith cult still being active after Covenant...I don't recall seeing that cult again in further episodes.

Contrary to what cm says, you don't have to like Sinatra to like Vic. I don't like Sinatra, but I love Vic. In fact, every time I hear the radio or a TV ad/show playing a Sinatra song, it hurts my ears and annoys me because I'm accustomed to hearing Darren sing the exact same song in a much better way. Anyhow, you can't please all the people, all the time. Anything else they added in place of Vic would not have been universally accepted either; so cm saying they should have added something else in his place, or just stuck with Quark's and add nothing, is not a more-ideal situation like he presents it to be.

I'd still like to see cm prove his claim that Season 7 is worse than Voyager. He may not like some of DS9's Season 7 plots, but at least it has some plots, unlike Voyager.

 

[Myasishchev]

Here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqWyr7cDcks&feature=channel_page (the part beginning at 5:45) is the first part. He rags on the writers for having Ross tell Sisko that the time has come to choose between being a Starfleet captain and being the Emissary, saying "you can't be both." CM attacks the writers on this by pointing out that Sisko HAS been both for quite a while, and it hasn't impacted his duties (in fact, Ross just gave him a medal, which CM makes a BIG deal out of). CM goes on to point out that, in fact, Sisko's connection to the Prophets has had a direct and positive (for the Feds) impact, by stopping the Dominion reinforcments from coming through the wormhole in Sacrifice of Angels.
IMO, CM totally missed the mark here. Starfleet has NEVER been comfortable with Sisko being the Emissary; the show has made that VERY clear overtime. They accept that the Bajorans think of them as Prophets, but to Starfleet, they are an advanced alien lilfeform that lives in the wormhole. Ross gave Sisko a medal because of his actions during Operation Return; that doesn't mean he approves of Sisko's role as the Emissary any more than he already did. As for the Prohpets interfering in the war... I wouldn't be at all surprised to hear that Starfleet Command doesn't completely buy that "the Prophets" interfered cause "the Emissary" asked them to. Starfleet has been shown to be a little thick-headed at times when it comes to needing to ascribe a rational, scientific explanation to EVERYTHING, so it wouldn't surprise me if they don't really accept that explanation. CM says "you'd think they'd be inclined to listen to the Prophets like... well, like they always have." I submit that Starfleet has never listened to the Prophets. They respect the Bajoran belief and (barely) tolerate Sisko's role in it, but that's as far as it goes. I don't think this exchange was at ALL out of character for Ross.

You know, I agreed with this part. If it isn't out of character for Ross to be so stupid and ungrateful as to not be willing to listen to the Prophets, who saved his people when they didn't have to and for all he knows had no reason too, then your opinion of Ross' character must be low indeed.

To the same degree, the exact same thing can be said about Sisko.

Yes, the Federation ascribes rational, scientific explanations to everything--and they know empirically that aliens with powers far outstripping the wormhole-bound Prophets already exist, and they know the Prophets are non-linear future-seers with functional omnipotence against biological life inside their sphere of action. The Prophets are not artiicles of faith. They are very proveably real and have been great allies to the Federation.

So if the Prophets want one guy--ONE guy--to stay home, you let him. Hey, have Jadzia go fly the mission, like you have had her do many times before.

As for Dukat's closing of the wormhole, I think CM and I agree on this--one of the great failures of DS9 S7 was to not tie in the Prophet vs. Pagh Wraith storyline with the greater Dominion War, when it was obvious that they 1)needed to be dovetailed together so that our finale wouldn't stand as a disjointed mess (oops) and 2)were so closely related, given the Dominion's need to break the Prophets' blockade of the wormhole.

So I'm 100% with Matthew on these counts.

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

The final part of his Season 7 review is on his site, ok??

 

[Saito S]

You know, I agreed with this part. If it isn't out of character for Ross to be so stupid and ungrateful as to not be willing to listen to the Prophets, who saved his people when they didn't have to and for all he knows had no reason too, then your opinion of Ross' character must be low indeed.

To the same degree, the exact same thing can be said about Sisko.

Yes, the Federation ascribes rational, scientific explanations to everything--and they know empirically that aliens with powers far outstripping the wormhole-bound Prophets already exist, and they know the Prophets are non-linear future-seers with functional omnipotence against biological life inside their sphere of action. The Prophets are not artiicles of faith. They are very proveably real and have been great allies to the Federation.

So if the Prophets want one guy--ONE guy--to stay home, you let him. Hey, have Jadzia go fly the mission, like you have had her do many times before.

As for Dukat's closing of the wormhole, I think CM and I agree on this--one of the great failures of DS9 S7 was to not tie in the Prophet vs. Pagh Wraith storyline with the greater Dominion War, when it was obvious that they 1)needed to be dovetailed together so that our finale wouldn't stand as a disjointed mess (oops) and 2)were so closely related, given the Dominion's need to break the Prophets' blockade of the wormhole.

So I'm 100% with Matthew on these counts.

Well... I will backpedal a bit on Ross. I realized something interesting, actually, while thinking about this scene another way. There's a third way to interpret this.

Ross asks Sisko if he's asking permission to stay behind. When Sisko responds with, "It's not about what I want, it's about what the prohpets want," Ross says that's not an acceptable answer. He then tells him he needs to choose between being a captain and being the Emissary, that he "can't be both." And... he's right. Sisko can either listen to the prophets and stay behind, thus acting as the Emissary, or he can go on the mission Starfleet assigned him, thus acting as a Starfleet captain. He "can't be both." Even if Ross does realize that the prophets/wormhole aliens/whatever they are did help the Federation, and that they obviously have an interest in what happens to Sisko, that doesn't change the fact that for this situation, Sisko can't be both. They are directly conflicting. That's never happened before. There has been friction between the interests of the two before, but never this outright contradiction. The Prophets want me to do one thing, Starfleet wants me to do the exact opposite. What Ross may have meant by "that's not an acceptable answer" is that he won't let Sisko be wishy-washy about it. Note that the scene never gives any indication that Ross is telling Sisko he will not ALLOW him to stay behind. If Sisko is going to tell Ross he will not take the mission, fine, but he needs to commit, one way or the other. That's my take, anyway.

As for the Dukat/Dominion/Pagh Wraith angle, I think that Dukat declaring that the wormhole closing is a GOOD thing, with Weyoun and Damr looking at him like he had just grown antlers, represents why the two storylines were not more closely intertwined. The Dominion considers the whole Prohpet/Pagh Wraith thing to be nonsense. Weyoun even said so outright. Those in charge of making strategic decisions for the war effort have written the entire thing off as rubbish, and have likewise written Dukat himself off as a raving lunatic. It's likely that the Prophet/Pagh Wraith angle was never even brought to the attention of the Founder. The Dominion has decided to ignore the whole thing, believing it to be non-relevant. They're wrong, but that's the choice they've made.

And I maintain that Dukat trying to convince Weyoun and Damar that the wormhole closing is a good thing requires no further explanation. CM rants (and I mean RANTS) that this doesn't make any sense. OF COURSE IT DOESN'T! It's not supposed to. Weyoun doesn't buy it at all, and believes that Dukat is only saying this cause he is a raving lunatic. What more do you need?

(Of course, we the viewers know that in fact, there IS an upside for the Dominion of the wormhole closure, since Sisko really ISN'T just an ordinary Starfleet captain. But Weyoun neither realizes nor shows willingness to accept that possibility.)

And for the record, I very much enjoyed DS9's final episode, and didn't find it to be anything remotely resembling a "disjointed mess". Buuuuuuut... that's me.

 

[Myasishchev]

True, YMMV on What You Leave Behind. Even from a production standpoint, though, it was a bit disjointed to my mind, with stock footage instead of new battle scenes. From a writing standpoint, two completely separate story arcs requiring Sisko's presence made it seem like, well, two separate episodes. Finale One: Cardassia falls. Finale Two: Sisko jumps in a pyre.

 

[Navaros]

Modern Trek is ~95% exposition of characters talking about what they are gonna do instead of doing anything, so not sure why cm is picking on the Dukat/Winn thing as if it's uncommon when they do it there.

cm is right that the Breen are frickin' hilarious, but he is wrong in how he portrays that as a bad thing. Breen are awesome on DS9 precisely because of how hilarious they are!

I understood everything the Breen said just fine, cm just needs to repair his UT before he watches DS9 again.

Calling Garak "boring" and "repetitive" = sheer insanity. There's never been a single bad Garak line in DS9, ever. He's fascinating for every single second he's on screen.

At least gotta give cm credit for actually somewhat reviewing something other than Dukat/Winn/wormhole aliens in part 5. LOL

One thing I do agree with him on is how ridiculous it is to say Weyoun as a GQ native has no more clones to be made cuz they destroyed an AQ facility. Also agree with him on most of his other WYLB criticisms too.

He still blew the bad parts of Season 7 way out of proportion though, understated the great parts by equal proportion, and called many of the great parts bad.

 

[TheGodBen]

Matthew, Matthew, Matthew... you lost all credibility with what you said about Garak. Garak was awesome and while I can understand why you might think he was repetitive, the fact is that awesome + awesome = much awesome. This has been independently verified by science.

I'll always thank you for leading me toward sfdebris.

 

[CorporalClegg]

^
Whit that, I wonder if he really believes half of what he says. I'm starting to think he's just starved for attention.

 

[Bones2]

Confused Matthew's a bloody idiot. An example of one of the downsides of the internet - any twit can become well known.

Regarding Dukat's blaming of Sisko over Damar, we know Dukat was quite insane by that point, and we know he saw Sisko as a rival he came to hate. He would also see the Federation as having lured Ziyal away from Cardassia, to which he was so loyal, as was Damar. As he was mad, he would associate Sisko completely with the Federation, as seems to be borne out with the way he talks about him (it being Sisko who forced Damar's hand, "I forgive you too" at the end of Sacrifice of Angels). I think to Dukat, Sisko was synonymous with the entire Federation at that point.

 

[Zeppster]

I like confusedmatthew and I happen to agree with his review of season 7. Late season 6-season 7 were just to downfall of a great TV show. There's some things I disagree a little bit but I still can't stand to watch the final season+ of DS9 because of how bad it was. I remember when I first watched the finale thinking how bad the show was because of the ending of it. They screwed up 90% of the characters there. But CM is usually pretty fair on things even though he's a little over the top on what he doesn't like. He'll say what people did right and what they did wrong. Very little of the last 2 seasons was done right. DS9 had a chance to be one of the best SCI FI shows ever instead it's end is just so awful it sorta ruins the show for me.