Dude, Lucas catered the original Star Wars to your generation, also to kids who were simply too young to know any better, and I'm pretty sure you found a lot of movies from the 40s and 50s pretty boring. Please get off your high horse, man.
Is the Star Wars saga better with Episodes I to III or worse?
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Dude, Lucas catered the original Star Wars to your generation, also to kids who were simply too young to know any better, and I'm pretty sure you found a lot of movies from the 40s and 50s pretty boring. Please get off your high horse, man.
Gee Golly Willikers, why would our generation ever want to watch that stinky "Grease" when "Bye-Bye Birdie" is so much cooler??
Not with Clone Wars cartoon news filling up geek sites/blogs and continuing to rewrite OT history, one can't.
I watch the show and I don't see how it's rewriting OT history. Care to elaborate?
It legitimizes and extends the fiascoes of the PT movies: the absurd inclusions of R2, Threepio and Boba Fett, the bastardization of Yoda (I'm fine with him fighting, but not with him carrying a lightsaber) and, most of all, the catastrophic bad-droids-vs.-good-clones interpretation of the Clone Wars itself. Does it significantly worsen these PT movie sins? Maybe not. But continuing to build off them is failure enough to keep me at arm's length.
1. The droids are too advanced to fit with the OT universe. Period. I've heard all the apologist rebuttals, and they're all crap.
2. Droids are far less scary and interesting than living beings. They make for dull and soulless opponents.
3. Boba Fett was always assumed to be of no particular galactic significance. Having people who look exactly like him make up half the Clone Wars eviscerates his mystique and is such a hard fanwank it practically breaks the fourth wall every time it comes up.
4. Evil droids aren't mentioned in Zahn's Thrawn trilogy, which is as vital as the OT to my personal SW canon.
5. Just because it's the "Clone" Wars doesn't mean all the clones half to share the same genetic source. There ought to be different clones for pilots, fighters, etc.... and even Sith apprentices. Thrawn trilogy again.
Five strikes, and the PT, CW series included, is out.
2. Droids are far less scary and interesting than living beings. They make for dull and soulless opponents.
3. Boba Fett was always assumed to be of no particular galactic significance. Having people who look exactly like him make up half the Clone Wars eviscerates his mystique and is such a hard fanwank it practically breaks the fourth wall every time it comes up.
4. Evil droids aren't mentioned in Zahn's Thrawn trilogy, which is as vital as the OT to my personal SW canon.
5. Just because it's the "Clone" Wars doesn't mean all the clones half to share the same genetic source. There ought to be different clones for pilots, fighters, etc.... and even Sith apprentices. Thrawn trilogy again.
Five strikes, and the PT, CW series included, is out.
Yeah, the only things established in ANH are:
-That there was a war called the Clone Wars.
-That Obi-Wan served as a general
-That he served Bail organa (That hasn't really been explained 100% yet).
-That Anakin also fought in the wars.
The PT actually supports the OT novelization fact and the early scripts which said that Commerce and Trader Barons helped Palpatine get to power.
The Thrawn trilogy, while good, doesn't pertain to what Lucas was doing what the story. Apart from the cameos from Aayla Secura, who Lucas liked on an artistic basis only, the EU has no effect on the films.
There have been fixes for some of the contradictions in the EU . Heroes of Cartao, a Clone Wars story by Zahn, establishes that Palpatine did use the Spaarti containers in addition to the Kamino ones. Jorus C' Baoths backstory and that of the Outbound flight is weaved into the prequel story well enough in Zahn's novel.
The Art of Episode II establishes that Boba's origin is based on the revelation in Dark Empire II (comic series) that he was somehow connected to the Imperial Stormtroopers. Also the novels state he was involved in the wars.
-That there was a war called the Clone Wars.
-That Obi-Wan served as a general
-That he served Bail organa (That hasn't really been explained 100% yet).
-That Anakin also fought in the wars.
The PT actually supports the OT novelization fact and the early scripts which said that Commerce and Trader Barons helped Palpatine get to power.
The Thrawn trilogy, while good, doesn't pertain to what Lucas was doing what the story. Apart from the cameos from Aayla Secura, who Lucas liked on an artistic basis only, the EU has no effect on the films.
There have been fixes for some of the contradictions in the EU . Heroes of Cartao, a Clone Wars story by Zahn, establishes that Palpatine did use the Spaarti containers in addition to the Kamino ones. Jorus C' Baoths backstory and that of the Outbound flight is weaved into the prequel story well enough in Zahn's novel.
The Art of Episode II establishes that Boba's origin is based on the revelation in Dark Empire II (comic series) that he was somehow connected to the Imperial Stormtroopers. Also the novels state he was involved in the wars.
1) Not really.
2) Programmed clones aren't any different.
3) Star Wars is all about the same group of people for generations, this is no different.
4) Irrelevant.
5) Makes sense though. Why NOT be economic and make them all the same? Thrawn Trilogy doesn't matter.
I got this far and skipped to the next post.
Using the droids also demonstrated the need for a 'thinking' army, and also provides an origin for the troopers. This is implied in some of the dialogue in AOTC, specifically in the Kamino scenes.
Plus it gives Palpatine an easy 'out' for the "rival" faction, they simply shut down the droids from their command ships. He gave this order to Anakin in ROTS.
Plus it gives Palpatine an easy 'out' for the "rival" faction, they simply shut down the droids from their command ships. He gave this order to Anakin in ROTS.
The OT didn't establish that Anakin wasn't a bdsm-obsessed homosexual who only knocked up Luke and Leia's mom because he was really, really high off of Wombat dung pellets. Doesn't mean that if Lucas had gone that route, we wouldn't have been right to reject it.
1) Yes really.
2) Yes, they are.
3) Misguided apologism.
4) Not to my personal SW canon, it ain't.
5) Because different people have different talents. Clone the best pilot for piloting duty. Clone the fittest fighters for infantry. Etc.
I think it's stated in some EU (Mainly the comics) that some of the Jango-type clones were bred or trained slightly differently-for instance the ARC troopers are more muscular and have more of Jango's persona in them.
There's even an EU story out there about one Clone who had all of Jango's memories (and was used to 'fix' some continuity issues with the old Marvel comics):
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Alpha-02
There's even an EU story out there about one Clone who had all of Jango's memories (and was used to 'fix' some continuity issues with the old Marvel comics):
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Alpha-02
That's what genetic engineering is for. Take Jango's genetic template and alter it where you see fit. Craft certain genetic parameters for pure infantry, others for commanders, others for espionage, others for piloting, etc.
Much easier than trying to sift through trillions of beings to find the one person best suited for a specific task, and then paying him or her to supply their genetic material, like they did with Jango.
That's the biggest problem, but it's not their soulessness - it's that they exist just so Lucas could dodge the issue that the Jedi need to kill people in wars. Of course since they're in the war only because they're clueless dolts, then it would be hard for us to get past them killing anyone. So the solution is: rewrite the damn story so they don't have to be clueless dolts!
There's so much wrong with the PT that it's useless to zero in on any one element. It's easier to pick out they few things that worked.
I agree, it's too fanboyish.
They're a family of prominent Force users. I understand why they're the focus of the story. Boba Fett should have just been some guy who happened to intersect the story once. What's wrong with that? Everything doesn't have to be linked to everything else - that's a fanwanky urge.
It's okay to cite the EU in some cases. The EU is where Coruscant and Kashyyyk got their names, and where characters such as Quinlan Vos and Aayla Secura (and the name of the Twi'lek species) were first introduced, among other things.
Worse
a) Midichlorians.. i honestly don't know what made them think this was a good idea. It flies directly into the face of everything that was established at this point and de-mystified the Force to be dependent on some microorganisms to make the connection to the force.
If i were a crime lord and manage to kill off some Jedi all i need to do is filter their blood and give myself an injection to become force sensitive?
b) The humor.. from Jar Jar to slapstick droids the humor was way below anything. I get that kids may love Jar Jar and merciless killer droids slipping on some spilt oil but it was such a huge distraction that it killed several scenes for me.
Episode 2 introduces the bigger combat droids and they are presented as a pure menace, even batting their smaller "cousins" out of the way to fight the Jedi. Episode 3 has them slipping on oil and doing a Laurel & Hardy slapstick stunt totally destroying their credibility for the sake of a cheap laugh.
c) The writing in general together with the overabundance of special effects.
Best example is the Podrace in Episode 1. It's entire service to the story is to set Anakin free and the scene is about 15 minutes long.
It doesn't further the plot along for the entire 15 minutes because it's just a pretty action piece with cool graphics.
A similar thing occurs when Han is fleeing from Hoth and is flying through the asteroid field. However this time we have the romance between Han and Leia develop further interspersed with Luke arriving on Dagobah and meeting Yoda which are all key points to the entire story only broken up by a few action pieces and not the other way around.
I know that Star Wars is a fantasy/science fiction action movie but what good is it to just flash our eyes for a time of all it is good for is a tiny plot advancement. I'm pretty sure that if a professional and capable writer would have written Episode 1 he'd have shortened the entire Podrace scene by at least 5 minutes or more and introduced some additional scenes relevant to the plot.
About the only thing good were the bare facts the movies delivered.. how Palpatine masterfully manipulated and used people to further his goals and the fall of the Jedi. These are the only things the prequels were good for but surrounding them were so many bad things that it spoiled the entire experience.
a) Midichlorians.. i honestly don't know what made them think this was a good idea. It flies directly into the face of everything that was established at this point and de-mystified the Force to be dependent on some microorganisms to make the connection to the force.
If i were a crime lord and manage to kill off some Jedi all i need to do is filter their blood and give myself an injection to become force sensitive?
b) The humor.. from Jar Jar to slapstick droids the humor was way below anything. I get that kids may love Jar Jar and merciless killer droids slipping on some spilt oil but it was such a huge distraction that it killed several scenes for me.
Episode 2 introduces the bigger combat droids and they are presented as a pure menace, even batting their smaller "cousins" out of the way to fight the Jedi. Episode 3 has them slipping on oil and doing a Laurel & Hardy slapstick stunt totally destroying their credibility for the sake of a cheap laugh.
c) The writing in general together with the overabundance of special effects.
Best example is the Podrace in Episode 1. It's entire service to the story is to set Anakin free and the scene is about 15 minutes long.
It doesn't further the plot along for the entire 15 minutes because it's just a pretty action piece with cool graphics.
A similar thing occurs when Han is fleeing from Hoth and is flying through the asteroid field. However this time we have the romance between Han and Leia develop further interspersed with Luke arriving on Dagobah and meeting Yoda which are all key points to the entire story only broken up by a few action pieces and not the other way around.
I know that Star Wars is a fantasy/science fiction action movie but what good is it to just flash our eyes for a time of all it is good for is a tiny plot advancement. I'm pretty sure that if a professional and capable writer would have written Episode 1 he'd have shortened the entire Podrace scene by at least 5 minutes or more and introduced some additional scenes relevant to the plot.
About the only thing good were the bare facts the movies delivered.. how Palpatine masterfully manipulated and used people to further his goals and the fall of the Jedi. These are the only things the prequels were good for but surrounding them were so many bad things that it spoiled the entire experience.
The basic storyline of the PT was okay. Jedi discover amazingly talented young Force user (I'd have made him a teenager just to avoid the pitfalls of a movie centered on a child actor). They see trouble brewing but ignore it and decide to train him. Kid gets too big for his britches, clashes with the Jedi, and finally turns to the Dark Side. Oh yeah, romance with Padme and all that. Big fight, the end.
There are some massive problems that needed to be solved before the PT had a chance to be a minimally competent story, such as:
1. It's no fun to watch a story where the good guys are being duped and they don't see it but the audience does. The Jedi should have been allowed to be more heroic than that, but the needs of the story turned them into schmucks.
2. Everyone was so damn humorless. This wasn't at all necessary. Anakin for instance, could have been very funny, with the kind of anarchic, frak-you wit that Han showed, but with a harsher edge. Even Vader had a mordant wit, so why not Anakin? It would fit his character if he was constantly being defiant, disrespectful and sarcastic towards the Jedi. And considering the Jedi were stuffy and kinda full of it, it would have been a nice way to get the audience on Anakin's side (even if we knew that his "wit" was a symptom of something darker that we shouldn't be rooting for).
3. Lucas made too many excuses for Anakin. Star Wars is the tale of the eternal clash between good and evil. Whether you believe this clash exists in the real world is irrelevant. Star Wars doesn't necessarily happen in the real world. Lucas got cold feet about the implications of his own story and tried to turn it into Star Trek - which it isn't, and shouldn't be, and he's no good at that anyway.
Anakin should not have fallen to the dark side because Palps fooled him, or because he loved Padme too much, or any other excuse to mitigate what he did. He needed to fall because he wanted to. Because evil is a shortcut to power, and he wanted power. We needed a scene where he told Palps that he knew exactly what was going on, that Palps didn't fool him for a minute (well maybe at the beginning) and that he wanted to join him, of his own free will. That would have been tragic. What we got was a silly farce that made no sense.
Good example of how the PT isn't even competently written at the barest level of writing craft. A pointless scene should hit the cutting room floor. Eye candy is not a good enough reason to keep it in.
I really didn't see him as "masterful" so much as the Jedi as woefully unobservant and even naive. In their position, you'd think they would be the savviest guys around, with a very healthy dose of paranoia.
There are some massive problems that needed to be solved before the PT had a chance to be a minimally competent story, such as:
1. It's no fun to watch a story where the good guys are being duped and they don't see it but the audience does. The Jedi should have been allowed to be more heroic than that, but the needs of the story turned them into schmucks.
2. Everyone was so damn humorless. This wasn't at all necessary. Anakin for instance, could have been very funny, with the kind of anarchic, frak-you wit that Han showed, but with a harsher edge. Even Vader had a mordant wit, so why not Anakin? It would fit his character if he was constantly being defiant, disrespectful and sarcastic towards the Jedi. And considering the Jedi were stuffy and kinda full of it, it would have been a nice way to get the audience on Anakin's side (even if we knew that his "wit" was a symptom of something darker that we shouldn't be rooting for).
3. Lucas made too many excuses for Anakin. Star Wars is the tale of the eternal clash between good and evil. Whether you believe this clash exists in the real world is irrelevant. Star Wars doesn't necessarily happen in the real world. Lucas got cold feet about the implications of his own story and tried to turn it into Star Trek - which it isn't, and shouldn't be, and he's no good at that anyway.
Anakin should not have fallen to the dark side because Palps fooled him, or because he loved Padme too much, or any other excuse to mitigate what he did. He needed to fall because he wanted to. Because evil is a shortcut to power, and he wanted power. We needed a scene where he told Palps that he knew exactly what was going on, that Palps didn't fool him for a minute (well maybe at the beginning) and that he wanted to join him, of his own free will. That would have been tragic. What we got was a silly farce that made no sense.
Good example of how the PT isn't even competently written at the barest level of writing craft. A pointless scene should hit the cutting room floor. Eye candy is not a good enough reason to keep it in.
