Well no and they can't reinvent the wheel nor do I think they tried to.
Is the Star Wars saga better with Episodes I to III or worse?
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Well no and they can't reinvent the wheel nor do I think they tried to.
Funny, I don't remember the scene where Anakin accuses the Jedi of killing his mom by their inaction.
Actually, he was... but he wasn't considered likable. Those are two different things. And of course the OT never said he was likable.
None of those adjectives create mutual exclusivity with "good", especially "arrogant", a charge explicitly leveled against the Jedi leadership by itself.
You weren't necessarily supposed to. His description in the OT never promised especially sympathetic qualities. He was described as someone with a lot of power and anger issues. Remind you of anyone?
Except for the parts where they seemed like good friends.
JarodRussell said:
As seen in ROTJ. However, we could easily substitute: Believing to be on the right track because you are attempting to save your wife from certain death, that's the tragedy about joining the dark side of the Force.
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I think better. I agree with Sidious, you can just ignore them if you dont like them.
I'll say better because at least they give us a backstory and wether you like it or not is up to you. They provide some eye-candy special effects and are cool and entertaining to watch, though not necessarilly "good." We get to see younger versions of the characters we know and love (Vader, Kenobi, Yoda, Palpatine).
There was a scene in the original Star Wars where Ben and Luke are wandering around the spaceport. A strange, cloaked alien informant with a trunk spots them. She then turns to inform the troops.
Well, you've all seen the movie.. but in recalling this scene, doesn't it take you back? I mean, in a very vivid way, reminding you that this, dirty, grimey spaceport is alive with life. In thinking about that scene, doesn't the spaceport feel like a real place?
The prequels seem to have jettisoned this kind of feel. As good as the CGI is, the settings lacked the texture and the life that made these fantastical films feel real.
Well, you've all seen the movie.. but in recalling this scene, doesn't it take you back? I mean, in a very vivid way, reminding you that this, dirty, grimey spaceport is alive with life. In thinking about that scene, doesn't the spaceport feel like a real place?
The prequels seem to have jettisoned this kind of feel. As good as the CGI is, the settings lacked the texture and the life that made these fantastical films feel real.
ANH was made, what, in the late 70's? Film making was a lot different back then. Now, everything is CGI because it is the new normal, the new standard for movie making. One day every movie that comes out will be in 3D because it will be the new standard of film making. If you want to remain a big shot Hollywood film director you have to keep up with the changing times.
What I'm saying is that the reason the spaceport feels real is not simply how it looked. It was also how it was used in the story. It's the writing combined with the how it looks.
Peter Jackson had a team of people to bring whole cities to life. Yet, what was Bree? A dingy little village. A perfect place to meet Strider.
Peter Jackson had a team of people to bring whole cities to life. Yet, what was Bree? A dingy little village. A perfect place to meet Strider.
I think I get what you're saying. It wasn't the fact that so much CGI was used in the prequels that "lessened" scenes, it was the way in which Lucas had the characters interact with their surroundings that made it seem worse than the ANH Mos Eisly scenes.
I think it's perfectly possible to create cool, "lived-in" looks with CGI. The problem is that it's too damned expensive, so it's typically used to depict "the big shiny"; i.e., the fantastical, eye-catching thing that can't exist, the thing you can put in the trailer to make people go "whoa." IMO, CGI is best when you didn't even know it's there, like the "almost Chicago but not" Gotham skyline in Nolan's Batman films. Lucas, being a technician at heart, has always been a bit too in love with putting the Big Shiny front and center - hell, he practically invented it.
As to the main point of the thread, I think the prequels revealed how much of a savant Lucas actually is - full of interesting images and visions, with a sense of myth, yes, he has all of that. But when it comes to translating those mythical themes and fantastic worlds to believable and engaging human stories, he falters. I've often wondered how much of what I love in the OT benefited from the timely suggestions of Gary Kurtz, Francis Ford Coppola, and others - back when Lucas still had people around him who could say, "You know George, this bit where Padme dies of a broken heart, it just doesn't ring true."
But the short answer is this: what the prequel films were really missing was a proper scoundrel.
As to the main point of the thread, I think the prequels revealed how much of a savant Lucas actually is - full of interesting images and visions, with a sense of myth, yes, he has all of that. But when it comes to translating those mythical themes and fantastic worlds to believable and engaging human stories, he falters. I've often wondered how much of what I love in the OT benefited from the timely suggestions of Gary Kurtz, Francis Ford Coppola, and others - back when Lucas still had people around him who could say, "You know George, this bit where Padme dies of a broken heart, it just doesn't ring true."
But the short answer is this: what the prequel films were really missing was a proper scoundrel.
Exactly. My complaint isn't solely about the look the look of the film, or the technique used. I like CGI.
What I'm saying is that making the audience feel like they are there requires a combination of said technique with good writing and a sense of scope. Just one of these wouldn't do. The cantina resonates so well because of all of these things, and the recent Adidas commercial that brought us back to the cantina only serves to remind us how good the original scene was. The original scene felt like it inhabited a place we could somehow visit.
I'm going to say that, overall, the Star Wars saga is better with Episodes I-III. There's no denying the flaws of the PT, but on the same token, there's no denying how the PT has kept Star Wars relevant for well over a decade now. As a case-in-point, people are still discussing and debating --passionately, no less! -- Star Wars 25 years after ROTJ. And for all the shoulda-woulda-couldas of the PT (and I've no delusions in that regard), we've got a number of indelible cinematic moments (both good and bad) to reminisce about.
Plus, without the PT, we wouldn't have the soundtrack to TPM -- which is as diverse and enjoyable as any OT soundtrack. If for no other reason, having three new Star Wars scores from John Williams is worth the PT -- even if Lucas utterly eviscerated Williams for AOTC.
Plus, without the PT, we wouldn't have the soundtrack to TPM -- which is as diverse and enjoyable as any OT soundtrack. If for no other reason, having three new Star Wars scores from John Williams is worth the PT -- even if Lucas utterly eviscerated Williams for AOTC.
I agree. More John Williams music was a good thing, but what do you mean about Lucas? What did he do to Williams, exactly?
Yeah, whether it was intentional or not, the fact Lucas had to rely so much on real locations for the original movies did a LOT to make those worlds feel like real, tangible places.
Half of what made those movies so magical was the way you could easily imagine yourself with Luke under the searing heat of Tattoine, or trudging through the freezing snow of Hoth.
I never felt that with any of the new worlds in the prequels. They were so fantastical and overdesigned and overpopulated that I couldn't identify with any of it.
Exactly! You got it.
I think, in terms of screen-time, more time is spent in Mos Espa than Mos Eisley. Guess which one is more memorable?
I think, in terms of screen-time, more time is spent in Mos Espa than Mos Eisley. Guess which one is more memorable?
It's pretty well-documented (though I cannot find a suitable link at present) that Lucas had Williams score much of AOTC before the film was fully completed. The result is an AOTC score that is almost entirely forgettable (at least by Star Wars standards). Furthermore, almost all of the highly heralded Reel 6 (the battle of Geonosis) is scored with tracked music -- that is, music that was recorded for (and already included in) TPM.
Put simply the score within AOTC is a complete and utter mess. And in soundtrack itself has very few highlights (Across The Stars being an obvious standout).
Actually, I have to include Ben Burtt in this accusation as well, since Burtt was biased so much in favor of his sound effects that he effectively lobbied to have significant portions of Williams' score removed from the film (for example, much of the CD track "The Arena" is left out of AOTC). Still, the final decision was Lucas' to make, and for that he is ultimately responsible.
I could go on about how musical motifs were sorely misused, but really, the entire score of AOTC is a mess -- even with the incomparable Williams as the composer.
I wouldn't go as far as to proclaim the score that Williams wrote to be a mess (there are a few memorable tracks, including the Across the Universe theme which you mention), but it was certainly eviscerated in editing. And even though I like it (on CD), I'll be the first to admit that it is the weakest score of the series.
I read this at first as "the prequels have a jettisoned kind of feel." Which is equally true.
Eh, you may have a point that my statement: "the entire score of AOTC is a mess" might be a bit of hyperbole, I suppose. But if so, it's not by much. By "mess" I don't necessarily mean "awful" -- just ... messy. As in, it's a soundtrack with little overall direction, and purpose. It's light years behind the energy and diversity of even TPM -- a film whose score was also butchered in the final Battle of Naboo scenes, but at least didn't suffer from reusing old music.
There really isn't much creative thought inherent in the AOTC score. It's got the muted "storm" and Kamino themes but that's it for new material (along with Across the Stars, of course). There are some Duel of the Fates variations ... and "The Arena" is a good track, but it's also a variation of the Droid March ... and that's pretty much it. The rest is either incidental or nondescript (the asteroid chase and Obi-Wan's fisticuffs with Jabgo, for examples). For that I blame the process of making the film, which left Williams without an opportunity to score a completed (or nearly completed) product.
