I don't like the new movie better...

[YARN]

You knew exactly what I meant with the words I used. You were just being a smartass. And pointing out people's grammatical errors is annoying, not nice. But that's all water under the bridge.

I most certainly was not.

I am sorry that you took offense friend, but it is much better to get suggestions for improved language use on an anonymous BBoard than it is to be corrected in public or at work.

Forget I said it.

Yes I can, actually. I did like his review, and I'm using him as an authority. The problem with that is, what, exactly?

The problem is this: An argument from authority depends on the actual "authority" of the person cited as support for a claim.

I challenged the substantive authority of RLM, noting that RLM is simply a comedy internet vlog.

You responded by saying, "I don't know who the guy is or what his credentials are, or care. I just said that I liked his review."

Here you have backed away from the claim that RLM has any real authority and clarified that you only meant to voice a personal preference. That's fine, but the result is that you no longer have an argument from authority, but merely an expression of personal preference. "I like it" is not really a compelling argument.

You can't have it both ways,

Are you merely expressing your personal preference or are you wishing to say more than that? Are you wishing to say that RLM is an authority on this topic whose comments carry argumentative weight?

That's true, but this entire post is just YOU saying you didn't like the film,

I have the sense that you didn't really read what I wrote.
I did like the new film. I explicitly said that I liked it. Like RLM, however, I think the film has flaws which deserve discussion.

and that you didn't like discussion of the new movie in the old movie forum. Well, why didn't you just complain to the person who started that topic? Or a mod? That wasn't our fault. We were just responding to the post.

The TrekBBS is not a hermetically sealed environment. Things get posted where they shouldn't. That's why we have moderators to fix things like that.

There's more than one way to make a point. I think that other thread is a troll thread and I have seen people who are posting in this thread posting in that thread.

Sometimes it is easier to demonstrate/perform a point than it is to explain it.

 

[YARN]

You might consider saying "I couldn't care less" for maximum effect. Saying, "I could care less," indicates that you actually do care.

Well, technically, you're wrong, because he did indicate that he does care right in the next sentence:

I loved the movie, but I could care less whether anyone else loved it or hated it. I'm just glad it was a success.

Anyway, I don't see why would anyone compare the new one with ten other movies. They might have been all Star Trek, but they were quite different. Except for the bad ones – they were all bad in the same way.

That said, I'd put the new one right after First Contact, which is my favourite Trek movie. This would mean that I like the new one better than the rest! Fans of the old movies, go after me!

First Contact was good, it was definitely the high-water mark of the TNG films. I still hold TWoK in high regard and despite some misgiving about the new film Nu-Trek certainly ranks higher than most Trek offerings.

With regard to the technicality, one should not confuse strict entailment with hyperbolic embellishment. To even comment on a topic indicates that one, at least, cares enough to say something about it. If I say, "You're on my last nerve", what you have is the hyperbolic expression of irritation, not a biological description.

Nevertheless, you have a fair point with regard to Dukhat. It is hard to see how one can claim not to care about subjective perceptions, but also be glad that those subjective perceptions led to people spending hard-earned money on the film, making it a success. Better advice would center dealing with this tension. In the context of Dukhat's post, my suggestion only exacerbates the tension you observe. I stand corrected.

 

[YARN]

Loved it. Trolling this forum is not going to work.

Just making a point.

Failing to, because:

If this thread is a troll of this forum, then its sister thread in the I-X is a troll of that forum.

Not surprisingly, you're wrong - and probably disingenuous.

The thread that you're imitating was started by someone to whom you're ascribing motives because you don't like his POV. He describes an event which may actually have taken place - he says it did, and we have no reason to doubt it - in which a friend said something after watching Abrams's movie.

You're not doing that. You copied the essence of his initial post and changed the POV to be the opposite, and posted it here with the express intent of annoying people - what you call "making a point."

The OP in the other thread was expressing an opinion while relating an experience. You choose to interpret that as provocative.

You made up a story - actually copied it - and started this thread to stir things up.

You probably can see the difference, but may deny that and I'm sure can justify it to yourself as worthwhile. It's not.

I think the poster in the other thread new exactly what he was doing. It has the markings of a subtly crafted troll.

You certainly appear to be enjoying the opportunity it afforded as you have been actively posting in that thread blasting the TOS/TNG movies. You certainly have not made that situation any better.

Even if he didn't mean to do this, he should have known better. I might tell an racial joke without intending to give offense, but that would not make it any less offensive.

 

[sonak]

As I'm sure you know Yarn, considering your all around mastery of the English language and grammar rules, one should not say "an racial joke," one should say "a racial joke."

Since we're being pseudo-intellectual and liberal with our use of the internet thesaurus and all.

 

[YARN]

As I'm sure you know Yarn, considering your all around mastery of the English language and grammar rules, one should not say "an racial joke," one should say "a racial joke."

Since we're being pseudo-intellectual and liberal with our use of the internet thesaurus and all.

I never claimed to be a master of the English language. I certainly didn't claim to be free of writing mistakes! Indeed, I make them all the time. For example, I've already noted one of my own flubs in this thread.

As I said before, it is only worth noting errors when it is apparent that the error is habitual. If a person is unaware that what s/he is doing is wrong, you do him/her a service if you point it out.

With regard to the error that you note, it is the result of an edit. I decided to go with "racial" instead of "offensive", but forgot to switch the article from "an" to "a." This is a mundane error that isn't even really worth mentioning.

At any rate, I hope you know the difference between pseudo-intellectual and anti-intellectual. You appear to lack understanding of the former, while exemplifying the latter.

 

[sonak]

I'm not sure what that means, but I shall consider myself properly insulted.


If you are truly trying to educate people with your insights and comments, then my apologies.
At any rate, my fault for contributing to off topic asides.

 

[shapeshifter]

All this... mastery of... grammar and English... is going to... give me... a... ah... ah... BRAINGASM!

Phew! Thank you.

 

[DonIago]

Question - if the original thread was a troll, and by that logic this thread is a troll, are you advocating responding to problem posters in kind? Because as a Moderator elsewhere I don't condone that practice, and as a person I think it's counterproductive.

Better to not feed the trolls and/or contact the people who are in a position to actually do something about the situation, if you feel it's a problem.

 

[YARN]

I'm not sure what that means, but I shall consider myself properly insulted.


If you are truly trying to educate people with your insights and comments, then my apologies.
At any rate, my fault for contributing to off topic asides.

I tend to cringe just a little when people say "could care less," even though that is now a common expression.

It is, as Dukhat put it, rather snarky to point stuff like this out, and I have should have built more a rapport with him before offering any advice to enhance his word power.

But this is a kind of troll thread, so I am trying to be a bit of a jerk as a way to point how jerky the sister of this thread is in the I-X forum. The point is not to be a jerk, however, so much as point out how jerkish a thread like this is.

Ye' Olde Tyme TOS fans are pretty easy to rile up (I am a TOS fan too) and it seemed like that thread was a cute way to pick on the old timers.

 

[M'Sharak]

Having glanced at the thread in the I-X forum and having more than a passing familiarity with its starter, I think I can say with some certainty that that thread is not a troll. (I mean: darkshadow?! Come on.) I feel that what YARN has done here with this thread is more a parody based upon a mistaken impression of the I-X thread OP's intent than it is an outright troll, and I'd suggest to all that it be treated as no more than that.

 

[Psion]

And as a powerless plebe with less authority than a drunk snail in a brewery (that is to say, about equal to most of the rest of us), may I humbly request we get back on topic and knock it off with the language lessons and sophomoric put-downs? Jeezus, one little slip provided all that digression?! Look at the little Romulan ... what's he doing?



He's laughing at you. All of you. Or maybe he's laughing at me, in which case he's gonna have a little accident tonight, but let's just move on.

Personally, there was lots about the new movie I liked. The effects were excellent, Karl Urban was amazing, Anton Whatshisnamesky's Chekov was different, but more believably Russian. I hated that they blew up -- or rather sucked-in -- Vulcan, but I loved the guts it took to do that. It reminds me of Star Trek II when they killed Spock. I hated it, but it was ballsy and added weight to the Star Trek universe. Then they reversed that in Trek III, but at least they balanced that with the destruction of the most iconic spaceship in entertainment. And then they reversed that. Please, let Orci and Kurtzman learn from those mistakes ... leave Vulcan dead.

I easily liked this film better than Nemesis, Generations, and The Voyage Home. On some days I even liked it better than Insurrection, First Contact, and Final Frontier. But unlike the folks at Red Letter Media, I don't think this movie's as good as The Motion Picture (a flawed movie, too). It's not as good as Wrath of Khan, either -- a movie that bugs me because of the ridiculous Genesis device and Meyer's compulsion to put blinking lights on everything. Come on, a blinking boson's whistle?!

This film has, like Wrath of Khan before it, changed the direction of the franchise. Arguably better for the masses, but it's not what I personally want out of a science fiction franchise. For that reason, I started telling friends that I'm no longer a Star Trek fan. This new movie is going in a direction where the years of detail and semi-consistency are being abandoned in favor of flash and excitement. The movie isn't even internally consistent and presents implausible encounter after implausible encounter, and that's just fine for the general audience. The movie made tons of cash and invigorated the franchise and that's terrific for the folks involved. But like I said, it's going in a direction I'd rather not follow.

Oh, I'll be there when Trek XII comes out. I might even see it two or three times and buy the disc (eventually, I still haven't bought 2009). I'll even tune in when the series inevitably returns to TV (or the Internet). But I'm not interested in buying all the merchandise anymore. Two weeks ago, I saw the TOS tricorder on the shelves in Toys R Us. For a moment, I got excited and almost snagged it, and then I thought about where the show's going.

Naaah, put it back and let someone who really likes the show have it.

 

[UFO]

Personally, there was lots about the new movie I liked.

Yes it had energy, freshness, and yet some how, nostalgia. Quite a bit of nostalgia really. Actually nostalgia was oozing out of every orifice ... .

I hated that they blew up -- or rather sucked-in -- Vulcan, but I loved the guts it took to do that.

Mmmmm … The kind of "guts" that makes me reconsider the positive aspects of cowardice.

It reminds me of Star Trek II when they killed Spock. I hated it, but it was ballsy and added weight to the Star Trek universe. Then they reversed that in Trek III …

Technically I suppose that was the first NuSpock (a "cloned" body with a memory "transplant"). But effectively sure.

Please, let Orci and Kurtzman learn from those mistakes ... leave Vulcan dead.

Someone needs to put their fingers down the throat of the black hole thingy and get it to puke that sucker up again (good as new). What?

On some days I even liked it better than Insurrection, … , and Final Frontier.

You have a refreshing and devastating ability to damn with faint praise. I love it. But better than The Voyage Home?! You have to learn not to take shock tactics too far!

… Meyer's compulsion to put blinking lights on everything.

Everyone knows the future is mostly blinking lights, and Apple Stores.

…but it's not what I personally want out of a science fiction franchise. Oh, I'll be there when Trek XII comes out. I might even see it two or three times and buy the disc … . I saw the TOS tricorder on the shelves in Toys R Us. For a moment, I got excited and almost snagged it, and then I thought about where the show's going.

Ah STXI, for hate's sake, I spit my last breath at thee! Or just get your psychiatrist to bill Paramount, that's what I did!

 

[NuFan]

Naaah, put it back and let someone who really likes the show have it.

Done and done.

 

[Psion]

Someone needs to put their fingers down the throat of the black hole thingy and get it to puke that sucker up again (good as new). What?

Oh, and your avatar rocks!

 

[SISKOONE]

Anyone that has a problem with the new star trek movie need to put up 200 million dollars of his or her own money...go to the studio and make a star trek movie or any movie for that matter. I know how fans feel ( yes i'm a fan also) but the long and short of it is, we don't have that kind of money to make a film. Prehaps moviegoers don't view the closing credit scroll at the end of a movie to see how many hands it takes to make a movie ( not to mention the names that aren't shown) We will never get what we really want. Even if a studio gave you 200 million dollars, chances are...you still won't get exactly the movie you wanted. Poor Micheal Bay, even he was disappointed in Transformers: Revenge of The fallen. After the suits get a hold of your flick...chances are, it won't resemble the film you made or set out to make. It all goes down in the editing room people.

 

[UFO]

Anyone that has a problem with the new star trek movie need to put up 200 million dollars of his or her own money...go to the studio and make a star trek movie ... .

That's great advice, thanks. You don't mind if I make a few comments on other people's efforts in the meantime though do you?

But seriously, are you really suggesting that just because it can take as much effort to make a bad movie as a good one, no one should ever complain about any movie?