Lost from the beginning (NO SPOILERS)

[Delta1]

Emily Nussbaum did a great job at deconstructing season 6's character missteps in her series retrospective. Her thesis is that the writers stopped telling a story about characters so they could tell a story about the story they were telling. This self-awareness was not new, but it was dialed up to 11 at the end of the series. Hurley had always been the voice of the audience, and near the end he was joined by Miles and Lapidus. Their function was "to joke about logic problems or clichés instead of addressing them. The snarky chorus stood in contrast to the main ensemble, which, with a few exceptions, devolved from archetypal (but layered) characters into action figures, their aims narrowing, like video-game heroes, to a single goal: Find Sun, find Jin, find Claire, return to the island, get off the island." Regarding Jacob and Frater, Nussbaum writes, "While the pair were not named Cuse and Lindelof, it was hard to ignore the resemblance, since Lost’s characters—like its fans—had been revealed as the pawns of narrative overseers who spoke in riddles, were hard to trust, and continually reassured them to be patient, the end was near." If Lost is a record of Cuse and Lindelof's relationship with their fans, I wonder what that says about the various massacres perpetrated at the behest of Jacob, Widmore, and Smokie?

My two cents, in the 6th season the characters lost their internal compasses and became passengers in a plot that, it turns out, I did not like so much. Total reversals in characterization were explained by offscreen conversations or magic. They slammed the brakes on nearly every character arc, even throwing some of them into reverse. And every now and then a character would turn to the camera and tell me how I was supposed to be watching the show, what I was supposed to feel, what I was supposed to ignore. It felt like nothing more than a metafictional exercise in audience manipulation. The characters I loved had been replaced, if not by smoke monsters, then by something far more insidious. Plot devices and author surrogates.

So it didn't really matter to me whether season six was full of quiet character scenes or slam-bang action. (It had both, in fact.) The quiet character scenes just served to remind me how poorly the characters had been treated, and the slam-bang action was pretty silly stuff.

I look forward to reading the rest of your reviews.

 

[RoJoHen]

My two cents, in the 6th season the characters lost their internal compasses and became passengers in a plot that, it turns out, I did not like so much. Total reversals in characterization were explained by offscreen conversations or magic. They slammed the brakes on nearly every character arc, even throwing some of them into reverse. And every now and then a character would turn to the camera and tell me how I was supposed to be watching the show, what I was supposed to feel, what I was supposed to ignore. It felt like nothing more than a metafictional exercise in audience manipulation. The characters I loved had been replaced, if not by smoke monsters, then by something far more insidious. Plot devices and author surrogates.

I'd really like more specific examples, because in my opinion, nobody acted out of character.

 

[propita]

My two cents, in the 6th season the characters lost their internal compasses and became passengers in a plot that, it turns out, I did not like so much. Total reversals in characterization were explained by offscreen conversations or magic. They slammed the brakes on nearly every character arc, even throwing some of them into reverse. And every now and then a character would turn to the camera and tell me how I was supposed to be watching the show, what I was supposed to feel, what I was supposed to ignore. It felt like nothing more than a metafictional exercise in audience manipulation. The characters I loved had been replaced, if not by smoke monsters, then by something far more insidious. Plot devices and author surrogates.

I'd really like more specific examples, because in my opinion, nobody acted out of character.

I'd really NOT like more specific examples YET because imo, this likely would not be done without spoiling it for Odo.

And Delta is coming close. I'm not a mod or anything, but posters are trying to respect Odo's request to not spoil. C'mon guys! Let him finish the season before some things get hashed out in this particular thread.

 

[RoJoHen]

Oh yes, definitely. I forgot which thread I was in.

 

[propita]

Oh yes, definitely. I forgot which thread I was in.

No prob. I know it's easy to forget, both because Odo's summaries invite comment and various posters' observations are often very interesting.

I hope that the interest in detailed comments will continue after Odo's done because it's a great read.

 

[OdoWanKenobi]

I really haven't seen a thing that's out of character so far this season. Yes, there's Sayid's growing darkness, but that's been explained by outside influence. The other major character changes like Claire, Jack, and Ben are easily explained by circumstance. Jack has been building to being a man of faith for quite some time. Ben has harboring the guilt and anger for Alex's death for some time. In his encounter with Jacob, he finally snapped. He's realized how bad he made things in his anger and grief, and now wants to repent. The flash-sideways was great in showing a Ben that never went through all of the awful things that made him the man he is. I can totally see the Ben of the real world having actually become this man had circumstances been different. The fact of the matter is that each and every person (Kate aside, but that's typical) has a legitimate reason for being where they are at the moment.

Now for another episode:

Recon:
I smell a spin-off! He's tough talking, southerner. He's can speak to dead people. Together, they fight the crimes nobody else can. This fall on ABC, it's "Ford and Straume" Seriously, I would totally watch a buddy cop show with Miles and Sawyer. I'm sure it would be awesome. In this universe, Sawyer is pretty much the same guy. He's just on the other side of the law. He does apprehend Kate, though, so perhaps I can finally get my wish of some justice? Awww, who am I kidding? She'll escape again.

The island storyline has Sawyer heading to Hydra island. There, he makes a deal to double cross Smocke. Then he goes back to Smocke and tells him of the deal to show that he's going to double cross Whidmore. Then he tells Kate that they're going to steal the sub instead of taking the Ajira plane, thereby double crossing everyone. You're good, Sawyer. You're good.

Sorry for the really short write-up this time. I guess I just don't have much to say on this one. The episode is fairly decent, I guess. It's certainly more setup than payoff, though. The best part is the flash-sideways and seeing Sawyer and Miles as cops.

 

[LitmusDragon]

Recon:
I smell a spin-off! He's tough talking, southerner. He's can speak to dead people. Together, they fight the crimes nobody else can. This fall on ABC, it's "Ford and Straume" Seriously, I would totally watch a buddy cop show with Miles and Sawyer.

I had this same thought after this episode.

I've enjoyed reading your writeups and I'm curious to see what you think of the finale.

 

[startrekwatcher]

I have to say I've been a bit underwhelmed by the structure of the episodes this season coming off of nearly 2.5 seasons of near perfectly structured hour installments coupled with the expectations of this being the final season. Seasons 3-5 for the most part had jam-packed hours that did a little bit of everything and all of it was engaging.

This season I don't like how things have slowed down. LOST really readjusted my thresholds for pacing and this season feels like the writers discovered they had 18 hours of episodes but not enough story so I get the distinct feeling they are stretching things almost like back in the early years of the show. Another problem that adds to this is the addition of the alternate flash thread. None of them have been able to hold my interest. Maybe down the road or out of pure nostalgia when I revisit the series years from now they'll be looked on more favorably.

I can see the writers using it in part to bring back old dead faces like Martin, Alex and Charlotte but a lot of these characters were just plot devices that I never had a connection with so one final cameo doesn't seem worth it plus the ptrope of characters crossing paths and having intertwined lives was fascinating in the early years but by now that effect has worn off--it doesn't carry the same shock factor or intrigue it once did. And I can see an appeal to testing out other pairings the show never did but Charlotte and Sawyer?!? Really? They barely ever interacted in the original universe so it seemed pretty pointless to saddle him with a relationship in the FSW.

And one of the things I could care less about in the final season as far as outstanding unresolved issues is the whole Kate/Sawyer romance. Sure it has been a major ongoing thread but it has also been an uninteresting one.

Like every episode so far while the alternate flashes are the least interesting the stuff on the island fares better in particular the mystery of Widmore's return. At first, I thought he might be in league with the smoke monster but now it seems they might have conflicting agendas. And where is Jacob in all this?

On a purely superficial note I hate Claire's wig--in every scene it is distracting just get rid of it already. It reminds me of the hideous one they gave Hayden on HEROES.

Let's hurry up and add some urgency to the remaining episodes, lets get Eloise, Widmore and the remaining players and mysteries front-and-center and if there is a more interesting point to the alternate flashes get to it since in a vacuum on their own they are boring. See that's always the downside to the double-edged sword of getting viewers used to such high standards that you have to keep it up.

Overall though it was still hovering in average territory but the on-island stuff was a tad bit better.

 

[RoJoHen]

On a purely superficial note I hate Claire's wig-

In the LOST episode recaps, they refer to her as "Crazy Jungle Claire with her Crazy Jungle Hair." I can't watch her in Season 6 without that popping into my head.

 

[OdoWanKenobi]

And one of the things I could care less about in the final season as far as outstanding unresolved issues is the whole Kate/Sawyer romance. Sure it has been a major ongoing thread but it has also been an uninteresting one.

That was laid to rest pretty definitively when Sawyer hooked up with Juliet.

And where is Jacob in all this?

Dead.

 

[DonIago]

^It's funny because it's true.

Other opinions to the contrary, I never ceased being entertained by the unexpected crossings of characters. Sayyid finding Jin in the freezer was particularly awesome.

 

[Hober Mallow]

Going back to the Ben episode for a second...

It was for me the best season six episode up to that point. I thought they did a fantastic job of integrating the two stories. This was the flash-sideways done right.

And Odo, I'm glad you picked up on who Principle "Dickless" is. "May I please see the containment unit, Dr. Linus?"

 

[OdoWanKenobi]

^How could I not? Ghostbusters is one of my favorite movies.

 

[DonIago]

Dr. Linus was definitely a fave for me, and I have to admit I rather enjoyed seeing Dickless (funny, I recognized him from Die Hard but failed to realize he was also in Ghostbusters) so effortlessly turn the tables on SidewaysBen.

Loved pretty much any conversation that occurred involving Miles during the episode, and there's nothing I can say about Ben's monologue at the end that hasn't already been said.

 

[Delta1]

I'd really NOT like more specific examples YET because imo, this likely would not be done without spoiling it for Odo.

And Delta is coming close. I'm not a mod or anything, but posters are trying to respect Odo's request to not spoil. C'mon guys! Let him finish the season before some things get hashed out in this particular thread.

I was going to go back into lurking, but I suppose response is appropriate. If you think I spoiled anything from season six, PM me or post it in spoiler tags and I'll clean it up. But I don't think I posted anything like a spoiler. A spoiler is something that ruins a surprise and detracts from one's enjoyment. "Over the course of the series complex characterization gave way to snarky self-references and behavior defined by the needs of the plot" is not a spoiler, since this transformation began no later than season 5 and continued into the episodes under discussion. (Nussbaum sees traces as early as season 1.) It is a generalization that may or may not be accurate, but it doesn't tell anyone anything they mightn't already have noticed. "In episode 613 Hurley compares Sayid to the virus-infected Alex Krycek of The X-Files and we get almost get an info dump from Widmore but Jack skips it so he can get right to the miniboss fight" would be a spoiler.

I'm not going to give any more specific examples of Lost characters as author/fan surrogates or plot devices, even from episodes that have already aired, because to do so would limit the story possibilities of future episodes and spoil them.

Spoiler: A real spoiler

And while you're backseat modding, be sure to police up #434. If Odo was paying attention, it spoiled the final scene in the entire series.

 

[sidious618]

Spoiler: A real spoiler

And while you're backseat modding, be sure to police up #434. If Odo was paying attention, it spoiled the final scene in the entire series.

Spoiler: Spoiler

No, it doesn't. Locke screams IN YOUR LIFE in the episode. It didn't even occur to me about the ending. And he's not back seat modding. No need to be rude.

 

[Starbreaker]

Dr. Linus is the best episode of the season. It really brought Ben's character full circle. When he makes his decision at the end... just wow. Great directing and and great acting and a great script. I wish we had seen some more of Mario Van Peebles work on the show. It felt like early Lost.

 

[propita]

I'd really NOT like more specific examples YET because imo, this likely would not be done without spoiling it for Odo.

And Delta is coming close. I'm not a mod or anything, but posters are trying to respect Odo's request to not spoil. C'mon guys! Let him finish the season before some things get hashed out in this particular thread.

I was going to go back into lurking, but I suppose response is appropriate. If you think I spoiled anything from season six, PM me or post it in spoiler tags and I'll clean it up. But I don't think I posted anything like a spoiler. A spoiler is something that ruins a surprise and detracts from one's enjoyment. "Over the course of the series complex characterization gave way to snarky self-references and behavior defined by the needs of the plot" is not a spoiler, since this transformation began no later than season 5 and continued into the episodes under discussion. (Nussbaum sees traces as early as season 1.) It is a generalization that may or may not be accurate, but it doesn't tell anyone anything they mightn't already have noticed. "In episode 613 Hurley compares Sayid to the virus-infected Alex Krycek of The X-Files and we get almost get an info dump from Widmore but Jack skips it so he can get right to the miniboss fight" would be a spoiler.

I'm not going to give any more specific examples of Lost characters as author/fan surrogates or plot devices, even from episodes that have already aired, because to do so would limit the story possibilities of future episodes and spoil them.

Spoiler: A real spoiler

And while you're backseat modding, be sure to police up #434. If Odo was paying attention, it spoiled the final scene in the entire series.

I didn't mean to offend and I don't believe I'm backseat modding.

Your post was so damn interesting, honestly. I wanted more comments on it--but not yet, for Odo's sake. That's why I posted that I was hoping that when Odo was done with the series, people would post comments just like yours. You noticed and connected things that I had missed or just not remembered--which is why hoped you and others would post more when Odo's done,to read and enjoy.

Don't blame me just because you post interesting thoughts, leaving me wanting more.

 

[OdoWanKenobi]

Ok people, chill out.

I encourage discussion and debate, but if we can't all be civil I'm not going to continue this thread. It would seem to me that people have been good about keeping spoilers out. Let's keep that up, please. Certain people do need to stop leaping down other people's throats for what they perceive to be spoilers though. I haven't detected anything that could be a spoiler yet. Since it's my thread, I think the ultimate choice is up to me. I will still encourage debate. Once I've finished the show, we can all debate to out hearts content in this thread, as there will be nothing left to spoil. Until then, let's all remember to keep it to what I've seen.

Now that we've cleared the air, let's get another episode in the can.

Ab Aeterno:

In short, an exciting, and heartwarming episode all in one. Easily the best episode so far this season, and I think would easily rank in my top ten for the series, as well.

Richard has lost his freaking marbles. He's being asked to tell them what to do next, and he has no idea what to do. What he does do is go nuts, tell them that they're all in hell and then wander off alone into the jungle to find Smocke. What better a time than now for a flashback to finally give us Richard's story.

Man, what a crappy life he had. His wife is gravely ill, and they are not wealthy. He tries to get assistance from Doctor Douchebag, but it doesn't go well. In his desperation, he accidentally kills the doc. Hmmm, not shedding any tears there. Even more tragically, his wife dies before he can return with the medicine. He's also now wanted for murder, and is arrested. In prison, he meets Father Douchebag, who refuses to grant him absolution. Richard is granted a reprieve of sorts when he's sold into slavery, and taken to America.

The ship that will bring him there is the Black Rock. Ha! I had guessed it. Granted, it's not like it was a huge well hidden mystery. Richard's Black Rock in a bottle last season pretty much sealed the deal, there. Needless to say, the Black Rock crashes on the island. It's also what destroys the statue. I do question the physics of a wooden ship shattering a stone statue, and also staying mostly in tact itself, but whatever. Also, how the hell did the dynamite not all explode there? Ok, ok, stop trying to apply conventional logic to this show.

It's not long before all hell breaks loose on the ship. One of the officers goes mad and starts killing the prisoners down below. Richard is the last man standing when the smoke monster intervenes and kills the officer, along with every other survivor. Richard is then forced to lie there in shackles for god only knows how long. Eventually, he wakes up to see his wife, who tells him they are in hell. That's a rather cruel move by the Man in Black. But hey, anything to turn someone to his cause. After the smoke monster "takes" Richard's wife, the Man in Black himself comes down to free Richard and ingratiate himself. The guy is a master manipulator, and soon enough has Richard heading to kill Jacob. I notice the dagger is the same one that Dogen gave Sayid. Is there some actual magic ability to this dagger? It didn't seem to work too well on Smocke. Ben was able to kill Jacob with one of Locke's knives. Maybe this thing is just a red herring.

Jacob can be equally manipulative. He manages to convince Richard of the truth (or at least his version of it.) Jacob isn't exactly a saint, though. He's been bringing people to the island, to their deaths, essentially to settle a bet. Jacob also provides a pretty good metaphor with the wine bottle that gives me a much better idea of what the island is (or at least I think it does.) Richard agrees to be Jacob's liaison in exchange for immortality.

Now we go back to the present, where crazy Richard is yelling for the Man in Black, claiming that he was wrong and wants to accept the offer he made long ago. Hurley has been following him, though. He's been talking with Richard's wife. What follows is a scene that reminds me much of the end of The Constant. Of course, I'm not quite as invested in Richard as I am in Desmond, but the effect of the scene is still there. Through Hurley, Richard is able to speak to his wife again, and to hear what she has to say to him. It's beautiful. It's exactly what he needed and when he needed it. I'll even admit to tearing up a bit. That's actually saying something, since this is really the first major bit of character development Richard has had at all. They did it very, very well.

 

[RoJoHen]

Ok people, chill out.

No, you chill out!