Lost from the beginning (NO SPOILERS)

[OdoWanKenobi]

Really? I didn't find either flash-sideways boring. Both were a bit routine, perhaps, but were very true to the characters. Sayid's is worth it alone for seeing Keamy ham it up on screen. As for the action sequence, when it's the smoke monster blasting through a place, how is it going to be anything other than a total massacre?

I'm enjoying the season thus far. There's a clear tonal shift from previous season, but that also occurred in the fourth season. It feels like we've entered the final act, so to speak. Maybe the fact that I don't have to wait a week for a new episode helps my enjoyment. I'm able to watch whenever I feel like it. The narrative might flow a lot better that way.

 

[startrekwatcher]

Really? I didn't find either flash-sideways boring. Both were a bit routine, perhaps, but were very true to the characters.

Let's for the sake of the argument assume they aren't boring just routine--"routine" is the last thing I'd come to associate with LOST and "routine" should be the last thing associated with LOST's final season.

I watched them a couple of times and I find them dull. If you describe action by action what takes place in each of them to me there isn't a lot of meat to them. Just very ordinary scenes that move the characters around a bit. I could care less about Nadia being married to Sayid's brother or Sayid's brother being in danger from someone or seeing routine parental stuff involving Jack & David for instance. And I could care less about them being true to the characters because I know these characters by now and the last thing I need is to see warmed over rehashes from S1--I'd rather watch S1 than these FSW. We all know Sayid has issues about whether he is a good man and Jack has daddy issues--nothing new there and the way they were addressed here didn't provide a new take on them.

I don't mind stories free of action, revelations or twists--which were the "bread and butter" of LOST--but they need to make you care or involve you not encourage you to go for the fast forward button.

Sayid's is worth it alone for seeing Keamy ham it up on screen.

To each their own. I thought it was a gratuitous cameo appearance and Keamy always felt more like a S4 plot device than an interesting character. I can't even remember how he hammed it up so obviously it didn't leave too much of an impression on me.

As for the action sequence, when it's the smoke monster blasting through a place, how is it going to be anything other than a total massacre?

I'm not objecting to the massacre I'm complaining about the fact that the way it was executed lacked any tension or gravitas befitting such a wholesale vicious slaughter that wipes out almost all the Others and is meant to come across as a shocking escalation in MIB's plans.

I'm enjoying the season thus far. There's a clear tonal shift from previous season, but that also occurred in the fourth season. It feels like we've entered the final act, so to speak.

I didn't see much of a tonal shift in S4. S4 pretty much continued the tighter storytelling where the writers didn't drag stuff out, questions were answered, the pacing was dizzying and there was an urgency in ther storytelling.

S6 feels like a return to the malaise that the show was criticized for in the S3 slump--lots of padding, very little in the way of revelations, lots of back and forth from one camp to the other, the writers focusing on stuff the audience wasn't particularly crazy about.

S6 should have continued the storytelling style we got in S3-5.

Maybe the fact that I don't have to wait a week for a new episode helps my enjoyment. I'm able to watch whenever I feel like it. The narrative might flow a lot better that way.

For me it didn't. I've been watching them back-to-back over the summer and the problems are even more glaring.

 

[OdoWanKenobi]

Oh, don't get me wrong. I never said Keamy was interesting. I just think he's fun to watch, due to his mustache-twirling evilness.

What do you want from the flash-sideways, anyway? For them to all be cyborg ninjas fighting an evil galactic empire? I think it's interesting to see the same characters with their lives just a little different, even if I have no idea where it's all leading to at this point.

 

[startrekwatcher]

What do you want from the flash-sideways, anyway?

Something that holds my attention.

 

[OdoWanKenobi]

Well, I guess we're just going to have to agree to disagree. So far all of the flash-sideways (excluding Kate's, I guess) have been far more interesting to me than the large majority of the season 2 and 3 flashbacks. This isn't a show about slam bang action (though it can often do it well.) It's a show about the character. I enjoy the flash-sideways for giving us character moments that couldn't be done otherwise, but still ring absolutely true.

 

[startrekwatcher]

This isn't a show about slam bang action (though it can often do it well.) It's a show about the character.

Where did I criticize the show for not having action? I don't need action just so long as the character stories are well crafted and interesting. LOST had demonstrated it could do this just look at Juliet's flashbacks or Ben's flashback in S3 or the S4 flash forward character stories or the S1 flashbacks.

No, the problem isn't the lack of action but the absence of interesting character stories. Just because it features no action and only characters in a quiet scene doesn't magically mean it is great or interesting character drama.

I enjoy the flash-sideways for giving us character moments that couldn't be done otherwise

What character moments did they give us that we didn't get in either S1 flashbacks or present stuff.

 

[DonIago]

For starters, Jack finally coming to terms with his daddy issues.

I don't see how the temple massacre was ever going to be tension-filled. It's not like there was any chance the Others were going to not get massacred. Your mileage may (and certainly seems to) vary, but I thought the point was in the dull creeping horror that Sayid has gone completely Fruit Loops and, despite his questionable acts of the past, has just entered a new realm of darkness...no Smoke Monster puns intended.

For that matter, everyone else who goes with Smokie at that point might as well be damned given what we know of him/it.

Especially given that S6 had up to this point been repeating the pattern of character focus established by S1, I thought "Sundown" was a great episode with one of the darkest endings we'd yet seen for both a character and the overall situation. Better if Sayyid had stayed dead.

 

[Aragorn]

You know, I thought about posting a Lost viewing thread after yours was done, but I don't care to have it hijacked.

I'll still read what you have to say, OdoWan.

 

[OdoWanKenobi]

Now hold on a sec, here. I don't want to discourage debate at all. That's the essence of a good thread. I also don't want to discourage differing opinions. Startrekwatcher is certainly entitled to his opinions, disagree with them though I may. I'm happy to hear other opinions. I just don't want to see anyone (including myself) being told that they're wrong for having them.

 

[sidious618]

Sundown was awesome. I remember when I first watched it; my jaw was on the floor during those last sequences.

 

[startrekwatcher]

I thought the point was in the dull creeping horror that Sayid has gone completely Fruit Loops and, despite his questionable acts of the past, has just entered a new realm of darkness...no Smoke Monster puns intended.

That was certainly part of the point of the episode but like I said I didn't think it was executed well. It fell flat. Obviously you felt differently.

You know, I thought about posting a Lost viewing thread after yours was done, but I don't care to have it hijacked.

I'm not hijacking his thread. I thought the point of a discussion is for someone to start a topic and for others to respond. Otherwise if you aren't interested in hearing what another fan has to say why bother even coming to a board. You can sit alone in your room with only your own opinions if you don't want to be exposed to what someone else might have liked or disliked about something.

In fact, when I start topics I love having other people respond and engage in discourse. I'm always curious about what someone else liked or picked up on that I might have overlooked. It always interesting to see what others look for in entertainment.

Hijacking his thread would be to start discussing an episode before he had typed up his little review.

 

[Hunter X]

So, what's in the lighthouse? Pretty much the same stuff that we found out in the last episode. The only difference is Jack and Hurley finding out about it this time. There is a bit more number stuff, how they correspond to degrees on the wheel. It would seem that turning the wheel a certain way allows you to look at another place in the world. Is this how Jacob selected his candidates? Is there little more significance than they were the people that would appear in the mirror? This still doesn't explain where the heck the numbers came from and why they keep popping up. Jack puts an end to any further use of the mirror by smashing it to bits. Well, so much for that.

See, I take the numbers as being something like this:

Jacob made the lighthouse, which, using the Island's magical magic, allowed him to see different people's lives depending on where he turned the wheel. Jack was at 4 degrees (or 8, or whatever, I can't remember who matched up with what number), and so on. The numbers are the universe's way of saying that these six people are the big ones, the finalists. There are, in reality, 360 numbers and 360 corresponding candidates, for each degree on the lighthouse wheel. But the Island knows who the final six will be, and that they will all be on the Island at the same time, and so is calling out to them through their numbers.

It's thoroughly mystical and has a bit too much magic to be much of an explanation for some, but that's how I took it.

 

[Hober Mallow]

Incidentally, Odo, you may or may not have noticed, but while Kate's last name didn't appear to be on the cave wall, it was listed in the lighthouse. "Austen" was number 51.

Some other interesting names on the list, all crossed out, were Rousseau (20), Rutherford (31 in the cave, 32 in the lighthouse), Burke (58), Inman (62), Troupe (90), Faraday (101), Lewis (140 in the cave, 104 at the lighthouse), Friendly (109), Linus (117), Dawson (124), Straume (171), Pace (195), Carlyle (226), Littleton (313).

 

[DonIago]

Kind of makes me wonder in what order and for what reasons the non-obvious ones were crossed out.

 

[OdoWanKenobi]

Kind of makes me wonder in what order and for what reasons the non-obvious ones were crossed out.

Ben, Miles, and Claire would be the only ones that are not dead that are crossed out. Ben may be because, well, he's Ben. Claire is a mother. Miles is the only one there would be question about.

Dr. Linus:

Here's the best flash-sideways yet. No surprise that it follows Ben. I can't say enough what a fine actor Emerson is. He can play Ben Linus as kind, and caring man, and I can totally buy it. It's interesting to see just how different a man Ben is in this universe. He does have one thing that's the same as regular Ben: Alex. Though he's not her father here, they are still close. She's his "constant" so to speak.

Things aren't to rosy in the school. Principal Dickless isn't running things very well, and Locke suggests that Ben make a play for the job. A talk with Alex gives him the ammunition that he needs. However, when he tries to make his move, he's presented with the choice between the job, and Alex. In this world, he chooses her. It's such a sweet moment. The Ben of this world is unknowingly rectifying the mistakes of the other.

Jack and Hurley run into Richard, who is really scared and suicidal. Lately the writers have been all about showing us other sides of characters. Richard's usually calm exterior has been demolished. He takes them to the Black Rock to have them set the dynamite for him, since he says he cannot kill himself. Jack stays to talk, believing that since he's a candidate, he can't be killed by the dynamite, either. It's a gamble the pays off, as neither of them goes kablooey today.

The Ben in the main world has some more problems. The truth finally comes out that he was the one to kill Jacob. Illana is none too happy. She makes him start digging his own grave (the irony of which is not lost on him.) Smocke appears, and offers Ben a job as head of the island once he leaves, and tells Ben where there is a gun stashed. After escaping, and getting chased by Illana, Ben opens up his soul. It's a great scene where all the crap that's happened to Ben, and all the things that he's done come rushing back to him. He is truly repentant. He said he was only going to go with Locke because he's the only one that would have him. Illana comes to understand Ben, and allows him to return to camp. Did I mention Emerson is awesome? I don't know if I did. Well, Emerson is awesome, and Ben is a fantastic, complex character. Oh yeah, and Emerson is awesome.

Lost has to have cliffhangers, though. A periscope pops out of the water, and it's attached to a submarine, of course. Inside the submarine is OHSHITIT'SWHIDMORE! Well, things are about to get ugly.

 

[startrekwatcher]

This was another average outing for me which was shocking to me given how all the Ben-centered episodes tend to be excellent--"The Man Behind the Curtain", "The Shape of Things to Come", "Dead is Dead".

The only things I found enjoyable were the Richard insight, and the cliffhanger with Widmore and his return had me hoping the show was finally going to pick up some steam and get back to mythology.

I didn't care one iota about the flash sideways--oooh Ben is plotting to overtake the principal, he has a history club meeting and look Alex is part of it. Yawn.

I was bored by Ben digging his grave and Ilana wanting revenge. LOST used to be elegant in the use of continuity and namedropping but the whole referencing of "Expose" and Nikki/Paolo was so gratuitous and forced--"Hey remember S3? What it isn't making you nostalgic and sad to see LOST coming to an end?".

LOST started giving off a post season one Heroes vibe right about here. I mean I couldn't figure out how Kring could have given us a storyline like Heroes season one but then give us the mess that was S2-4. By the same token I was dumbfounded how Lindelof/Cuse gave us the brilliance of S1, S3-5 then were given us the unfocused, padded season we were getting here with those damn boring sideways storylines--at this point my only hope was that the FSW stink now but once the Big Picture was revealed they'd become more compelling within the new light.

 

[OdoWanKenobi]

^Clearly you are unable to enjoy quiet character based moments. I pity you.

 

[startrekwatcher]

^Clearly you are unable to enjoy quiet character based moments. I pity you.

Oh I can most certainly enjoy quiet character moments. Don't need one bit of action or twists or cliffhangers or cool-looking visual effects sequences or battles or fast pacing or any of those things that have become part and parcel of this generation's entertainment requirements. The quiet character based moments just need to be involving. In my opinion, these were not. But I'll take twists, cliffhangers, neat revelations, fast pacing and action that are compelling over lukewarm character scenes that are not compelling or involving.

 

[OdoWanKenobi]

Whereas I prefer character development, and emotional payoffs. The mysteries and twists are fun, but it's the depth of the characters that keep me coming back. Almost every character on this show is a different person than they were at the beginning (except Kate, she's stayed the same.) The best part is: the transformations, for the most part, have been subtle and believable. It would seem to me that we watch this show for entirely different reasons, and as such it is unlikely for us to see eye to eye.

 

[startrekwatcher]

Whereas I prefer character development, and emotional payoffs.

You keep saying that I don't like character development and emotional payoffs--which couldn't be further from the truth. I actually don't look for just one thing when it comes to entertainment--I like it all.

But we just happen to disagree about what constitutes quality character work or scenes. LOST has had a plethora of great character moments over the years I just happen to find the ones we are getting in Season Six to be lacking. Just because you don't have action doesn't mean that a scene constructed involving only two actors and dialog makes it compelling character-wise.

The mysteries and twists are fun, but it's the depth of the characters that keep me coming back

Well everyone looks for something different in their entertainment. I enjoyed the characters but I have to say that they worked best inserted into this big epic complex storyline and what I enjoyed the most were the mysteries because for the majority of the series that was what was so integral to the show's success and popularity.

It would seem to me that we watch this show for entirely different reasons, and as such it is unlikely for us to see eye to eye.

Most likely.