What does marriage mean to you?

Discussion in 'Miscellaneous' started by bigdaddy, Jul 30, 2010.

  1. Marie1

    Marie1 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Exactly!

    I'm not opposed to prenups either- sometimes (and I have experience with this) people who are sociopathic can hide who they are- and if they do, I see no reason why they should get half my stuff.
     
  2. Kestra

    Kestra Admiral Premium Member

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    I've found plenty of things you've said to be offensive, but that doesn't make it right to presume you know my opinion on every subject. And what was so important and needed to be said that it was worth offending me, if you were so sure of it? You didn't even comment on the rest of my post which was a response to your actual question.
     
  3. Hermiod

    Hermiod Admiral Admiral

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    ^Quite some time ago I made a joke about men ending up paying for sex one way or another. You took offence and said you hoped your husband didn't feel that way. In addition, I've found that married people do tend to get a bit defensive on this subject.

    I make no comment on the state of your marriage. As you say, I don't know you or your husband. I'm sorry if you think I was making presumptions.

    I didn't comment on the rest of your reply because you'd answered my question and I had nothing else to say.
     
  4. Kestra

    Kestra Admiral Premium Member

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    I know you're not commenting on the state of my marriage. That's not what this is about. I'm upset with your question because a) you assume most married people do get offended, b) that I am like said married people, and c) that you would deliberately ask me something that you thought would offend me, something which ultimately had little importance. It's rude and unnecessary.

    Sorry if this is coming off as defensive, but it's really not the whole marriage topic that's bothering me here. It's that I don't like when people assume they know my thoughts on a particular subject, and also that while you say you have no problem with me, you also apparently have no issue offending me over a simple question. It definitely changes my view of you.
     
  5. Hermiod

    Hermiod Admiral Admiral

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    ^As I've said, you've taken offence at things I've said about marriage in the past. I only cited one example.

    I'm sorry you think less of me now, but I'm not going to tip-toe around issues just because somebody might be offended.
     
  6. Kestra

    Kestra Admiral Premium Member

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    So the fact that I don't take offense at being asked about a pre-nup ... how does that factor in?

    Edit: Ignore the question. Having a discussion with you is near impossible.
     
  7. Adm_Hawthorne

    Adm_Hawthorne Admiral Admiral

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    You know what marriage means to me?

    It means that I could show the world in an instance how I feel about the one person in the world I would do anything for in a way that others would know exactly how much we are committed to each other.

    It would mean that I could put into tradition and know that my (possible) future children would know that it is okay to love the person you do.

    Marriage, not the ceremony or act of getting married, but the actual marriage means that I have found that one person that I could never be without and, even if we're separated for a short time, the world would know and recognize that, in our hearts, we're always together.

    I wish I could have that.
     
  8. Hermiod

    Hermiod Admiral Admiral

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    I'm not going to ignore that. I'm glad you didn't take offence, for what it's worth.

    You are demonstrating the attitude that caused my initial comment and reinforcing my opinion of married people.
     
  9. Kestra

    Kestra Admiral Premium Member

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    I wish you could have that too. I also wish we didn't need that though, as a society. Plus with the rates of divorce and other issues, many people probably don't recognize marriage as a symbol of the things you posted.

    It's not about being married! Good lord.
     
  10. Hermiod

    Hermiod Admiral Admiral

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    No, it's about your attitude when I say things you disagree with. This is like the fifth time we've had this conversation!
     
  11. Kestra

    Kestra Admiral Premium Member

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    So why are you generalizing that to "married people" and not just leaving it about me as an individual, and how I react to disagreements?
     
  12. Adm_Hawthorne

    Adm_Hawthorne Admiral Admiral

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    In a lot of ways, I think you're right. But, in the back of many people's minds, I can't help but think that ideal is still there, you know?

    I've been with the same woman for almost 6 years now, and I still have moments where I think, "I'd love to be her wife."

    We're as committed as anyone could be, but I still have that thought, and it's exactly what I said.

    I like the concept of belonging to someone and knowing that others know that.

    I don't mean in sense of slavery, but in the sense of being with that person.
     
  13. Hermiod

    Hermiod Admiral Admiral

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    ^It's because your reaction is common. You can't speak negatively about marriage without somebody thinking you've somehow violated their vows.

    You didn't react that way, and I'm sorry for thinking you would.
     
  14. Kestra

    Kestra Admiral Premium Member

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    Oh, that ideal is definitely there. It's just not standard, and individual people can even be of two minds on whether marriage symbolizes that or not. I think I dislike the notion that we need other people to legitimize the relationships we're in to any extent. Is it just human nature to want other people to recognize our commitment, or is it just a shortcut to explaining how strongly you feel about your partner (as you explained in your initial post)?

    Fair enough. I can get defensive about marriage (and pretty much everything else) but I want you to understand that that wasn't the case here. My reaction was about something else.

    FWIW, I didn't really even want to get married. It was the result of my husband wanting it, family pressure, societal pressure, and eventually seeing some of the benefits of such a union. That's why my husband and I were together seven years before I wanted to get married. As a result I have some conflicted views on marriage.
     
  15. Adm_Hawthorne

    Adm_Hawthorne Admiral Admiral

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    I definitely see it as a shortcut. If I cared if society on the whole recognizing the legitimacy of my relationship gave it validity or not, I wouldn't bother to be in a relationship as the likelihood of that type of recognition is slim to none.
     
  16. Deckerd

    Deckerd Fleet Arse Premium Member

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    It's impossible to make generalisations about marriage. Each one is different.
     
  17. Kestra

    Kestra Admiral Premium Member

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    Pfft. Misc wouldn't exist if we couldn't generalize!
     
  18. Deckerd

    Deckerd Fleet Arse Premium Member

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    But then again, it's such a personal thing that no two people are ever going to agree about it. The dynamic of the whole conversation would have been different if the question were only posed for married people.
     
  19. Hermiod

    Hermiod Admiral Admiral

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    I get that.

    As others have tried to establish, there's Marriage and then there's Marriage. It's hard for people to separate the legal framework, the sharing of assets and so on and so on from the part where two people love each other and want to spend the rest of their lives together.

    It's not the second part I have any problem with at all. My problem is very much with the first.

    First, the ability to have such a legal relationship is denied to a great number of people who love each other just as much as any heterosexual couple.

    Second, such an arrangement gives them financial benefits they haven't earned. It's unacceptable to me that having a piece of paper gives you tax benefits.

    Third, and this is where a lot of people get offended, I believe that it is extremely disadvantageous for a man to get married in the legal sense. Like it or not, a great many marriages end in divorce. Such divorces are typically initiated unilaterally by the woman, taking advantage of the so-called 'no fault' system of divorce which allows the splitting of assets with no need to prove any wrongdoing.

    The divorce system in no way favours men, so custody of the children and ownership of the family home is typically retained by the woman.

    I believe that men would be better off cohabitating in an 'unofficial' marriage but even then, as others have said, a man can't even do that because eventually the law will say he's married anyway.

    I just can't accept a system that allows a man to lose his home and his children without anyone having to demonstrate that he actually did anything wrong.
     
  20. Deckerd

    Deckerd Fleet Arse Premium Member

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    It works both ways. One of my sister's friends was married to a man whose family were wealthy. When he ran off with another woman, the family made sure she got squat. Her parents had to find somewhere for her to live. He buys the kids presents but keeps them at the other house because the other woman's kids have a better games setup, so the only time they get to play them is when they're visiting him. This is also happening to another friend of mine as we speak, who has lost her home because her husband's parents lent it to him.