Vorta and Genders

[StarryEyed]

Doesn't explain why they sent Weyoun to deal with Dukat!

Someone got their intel badly mixed up. Or they read some of the same fanfics I have, and got the wrong impression about ole Dukey.

Seriously, though...maybe the Dominion had enough respect for Dukat's intelligence that they'd figure he'd see right through a blatant attempt at seduction, or that he wouldn't live up to his end of the bargain (and I don't think he would), which makes seduction a bad strategy to use on him. The better strategy is what Weyoun successfully used: an offer to restore him to power after he'd been tossed out on his butt because of Ziyal. He must have been inwardly fuming at the injustice of it all, plus power is his drug of choice. Even sex is just an aspect of power for him.

Bingo. Dukat might be a horn dog but he is first and foremost, a megalomaniac. Also, he IS intelligent enough to see through a seduction attempt and is plenty disciplined enough to resist it. This is a guy who blocked a forced Vulcan mind-meld.

 

[DevilEyes]

Doesn't explain why they sent Weyoun to deal with Dukat!

Someone got their intel badly mixed up. Or they read some of the same fanfics I have, and got the wrong impression about ole Dukey.

Seriously, though...maybe the Dominion had enough respect for Dukat's intelligence that they'd figure he'd see right through a blatant attempt at seduction, or that he wouldn't live up to his end of the bargain (and I don't think he would), which makes seduction a bad strategy to use on him. The better strategy is what Weyoun successfully used: an offer to restore him to power after he'd been tossed out on his butt because of Ziyal. He must have been inwardly fuming at the injustice of it all, plus power is his drug of choice. Even sex is just an aspect of power for him.

Bingo. Dukat might be a horn dog but he is first and foremost, a megalomaniac. Also, he IS intelligent enough to see through a seduction attempt and is plenty disciplined enough to resist it. This is a guy who blocked a forced Vulcan mind-meld.

Oh, I 100% agree with both of you. That was a joke, you know.

Seriously speaking... I believe that the gender differentiation is there mostly to put the other races at ease rather than freak them out. Also, attractive people are usually more popular and have an advantage in influencing people, even if there isn't any actual sex involved - so this can be the purpose of Kilana's cleavage. The Vorta might try flirting as a tactic, among other things.

But I don't see any reasons to believe that Vorta are even capable of having sex. I certainly don't think they have sexual drive - as I explained in an earlier similar thread, I think it would be too much of a risk for the Founders to give the Vorta a sex drive. Whatever they gained by having the Vorta use sex as a weapon, they could also lose because others could use the same weapon against them, and the Vorta themselves might become targets of seduction. Besides, the Founders don't want the Jem'Hadar and the Vorta to feel strongly about anything except the loyalty to their gods - which is IMo the reason why the Vorta have a very weak sense of taste and no aesthetic sense. As a Founder, you don't want to risk your Vorta becoming obsessed with foods, art, or men/women of the enemy or subject races.

 

[DGCatAniSiri]

I've always figured that the Vorta have the sexual organs but are designed to not receive pleasure from sexual stimulation. Sex can sometimes be used as a negotiating tactic, so I think that they should be capable of it, but DevilEyes is right that the Founders wouldn't want their Vorta to become gluttonous, alcoholic sex maniacs (as Ziyal once put it).

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ AFAIK, the Vorta can't derive pleasure from *anything* (apart from worship of the Founders of course) except certain roots and berries eaten from their original homeworld. Kind of a reminder of what they once were.

 

[Pemmer Harge]

If I recall correctly, when Weyoun showed up in Ties of Blood and Water and Sisko was surprised to see him, he explained that the Vorta are in the habit of cloning themselves, which reduces the danger of their work (somehow...). Seeing that, I assumed that not all Vorta were clones. In a later episode, I believe, one of the main characters made some reference to the Vorta being all clones. This could be a misconception on their part or a retcon on the writers' part, or indeed faulty memory on my part...

 

[DS9 Gal AZ]

You guys, I read your discussion and I had to get on it, I just registered and this is my first post! I forgot how much I loved the Vorta, and I'm glad I wasn't the only one wondering about their sexuality (or lack thereof). Speaking of Kilana though, Va-va-VOOM Vorta! Good thing she wasn't dealing with Kirk or pre-beard Riker, because you know they would have been way too distracted to negotiate, thinking about hittin' that. And of course, somewhere, Dukat is thinking "Damn, the Dominion had HER and they sent me Weyoun? No fair!"

But regarding the Vorta and sex, we know at one time they reproduced the old-fashioned way, as Weyoun told the story to Odo in "Treachery, Faith, and the Great River" about how a family of Vorta hid a Changeling from a group of Solids. Whether they are still capable of sexual reproduction or are even able to feel/express sexual desire is something the series never made clear. We knew that they were aware of sex and would not hesitate to use flirtation along with other forms of flattery as a negotiating tactic, as witnessed by Kilana's initial attitude towards Sisko, but I also assumed the Founders did their best to eradicate any sexual desire from the Vorta's genetic code. Like you guys have said, they were made in two genders to resemble other "solid" species and put them at ease, but the Founders wouldn't want them being seduced by other species or even having sex with/falling in love with each other. It would distract from their devotion to their gods. But ... *spoiler for books coming, stop reading now if you don't want to know*

I just got the DS9 Millenium novels, and in the last one, it's reveal that one of Weyoun's clones once had a romantic relationship with one of Kilana's clones! Now, I don't know if the books are considered cannon, but there it is. It's only mentioned briefly, so they don't elaborate on if this "romance" was something illicit that would have been forbidden by the Founders or not. I just found it very interesting, especially considering I'm writing a fanfic in which these two character have a relationship. Just something to think about.

 

[Deranged Nasat]

^ Welcome to the BBS!

I thought of the Millennium detail, too, seeing as I'm very fond of the trilogy. That said, I was always a little uneasy on that detail.

 

[DevilEyes]

I just got the DS9 Millennium novels, and in the last one, it's reveal that one of Weyoun's clones once had a romantic relationship with one of Kilana's clones! Now, I don't know if the books are considered cannon, but there it is.

No, they're not. That said, most of the books published after 1999 form a sort of primary continuity of contemporary Trek literature, but I believe that the Millennium trilogy is not even a part of that continuity.

 

[Kegg]

I find it unlikely the Vorta still engage in sex, if only because we know the Jem'Hadar no longer do and they're the other race the Changelings screwed around with. They're probably still male and female because eh, don't fix what isn't broken - remove the capacity and desire to reproduce, but don't bother with some fancy smanchy genderless model.

Obviously towards the seduction aspect. I figured if they were dealing with mostly hormone driven males this would work for them...

Doesn't explain why they sent Weyoun to deal with Dukat!

*cough*

You sure?

 

[DS9 Gal AZ]

Obviously towards the seduction aspect. I figured if they were dealing with mostly hormone driven males this would work for them...

Doesn't explain why they sent Weyoun to deal with Dukat!

*cough*

You sure?[/QUOTE]

LOL. Slash aside, I think if Dukat saw Kilana, he would immediately demand the Founders take Weyoun back and give him her instead. Even with his weakness for Bajoran women, he'd take notice of her.

Regarding the books I mentioned, I didn't think it was cannon, I just really like the idea of Weyoun/Kilana for some reason... is it really possible to genetically engineer something as basic as sexual desire out of a preexisting species? Supress it sure, but completely get rid of it? The Jem'Hadar are different, they are single-gendered and could have been made "from scratch" for all we know.

^ Welcome to the BBS! I thought of the Millennium detail, too, seeing as I'm very fond of the trilogy. That said, I was always a little uneasy on that detail.

Thanks, Deranged Nasat! Funnily enough, I always kinda liked that detail myself. In fact, I wish they had elaborated. Not only was Kilana freakin' gorgeous, I enjoyed the character and the actress. Would have liked to see more of her on the show. Oh well, that's what fanfiction is for.

 

[DevilEyes]

Obviously towards the seduction aspect. I figured if they were dealing with mostly hormone driven males this would work for them...

Doesn't explain why they sent Weyoun to deal with Dukat!

*cough*

You sure?

LOL Now that you mention it, it's interesting that Dukat is one of the very few male Trek characters that has been a subject of a far greater amount of het porn, erm fanfiction, than the obligatory slash.

LOL. Slash aside, I think if Dukat saw Kilana, he would immediately demand the Founders take Weyoun back and give him her instead. Even with his weakness for Bajoran women, he'd take notice of her.

Probably. But come to think of it, they'd probably be wise to refuse. In addition to all the reasons - that Temis and StarryEyed have listed - why using seduction as a tool on Dukat is not a good idea, you also have to keep in mind that Dukat is very manipulative, and particularly seems to specialize in emotionally manipulating women. It's probably better to keep the attractive females away from him. Which, I guess, means that, even if Vorta have sexual desire, Weyoun did not swing that way after all...

(Anyway, I got the impression that Weyoun mostly likes to watch... )

 

[DS9 Gal AZ]

(Anyway, I got the impression that Weyoun mostly likes to watch... )

HAH! But seriously, is it weird that I'm shipping a couple from a show that's been off the air for years, a "couple" that never had any actual screen time together, from a species that we're not even sure is capable of sexual desire, all based off a few lines in a non-can Trek book?

Wait, don't answer that. Oh well, I'm shipping them, I'm writing them, whatever! My poor Weyoun needs to stop watching and get in on the action, LOL! Weyoun/Kilana!

 

[Deranged Nasat]

But seriously, is it weird that I'm shipping a couple from a show that's been off the air for years, a "couple" that never had any actual screen time together, from a species that we're not even sure is capable of sexual desire, all based off a few lines in a non-can Trek book?

Wait, don't answer that. Oh well, I'm shipping them, I'm writing them, whatever! My poor Weyoun needs to stop watching and get in on the action, LOL! Weyoun/Kilana!

Go for it!