The Problem with the Comic Book Industry

[RJDiogenes]

Where does this 'Generation ADD' bullshit come from? As you were told before, most kids do read (Harry Potter & Twilight) plus other popular things like manga. They're just not reading DC and Marvel as much.

There may be current fads, but book sales have been declining for years, just like Comics and magazine sales. Compare the sales of Analog or Asimov's or F&SF to ten, twenty or thirty years ago.

As for low quality, I dare you to compare a story from 35 years ago and the paper it was printed on to what's being made now, and see how it is!

I do that all the time. It would be hard to find a contemporary writer who can compare to the likes of Englehart, Moench, Gerber et al.

I personally tried to get into old comic books a few years back by buying a copy of Superman's Girl Friend Lois Lane (at Toronto Comicon)-the story was the usual thing with exclamation points every word, printed on cheap paper. I instantly took it back to the vendor and got myself a copy of Superman: Birthright; better reading and a better storyline, I've not sampled elsewhere. This whole post/topic sound to me like misplaced nostalgia, the same affliction that's plaguing North America; I don't think that comic books are that bad, it's just the perception of them that is.

I suppose you don't watch black-and-white movies, either.

 

[Dusty Ayres]

I suppose you don't watch black-and-white movies, either.

I do, but movies and comics are different in my eyes.

 

[FormerLurker]

I just found this thread, so bear with me.

The big problem with comic books and the comic companies that create, market and profit from them, is that, especially for the overwhelming majority of superhero comics dominating the industry, the creators greatest concern seems to be telling all the "really cool" stories they told each other on the playground, that the creators at the time would have never told, in print, and claiming ownership of the concept of the characters because of it.

Well written comics are one thing. But even today, the public perception of comics is "kiddie entertainment." Thus, any comic, especially a superhero comic, that has content inappropriate for younger audiences, regardless of how well written it is, is a bad comic. And the writers and artists currently working for the likes of Marvel and DC don't have the talent, or the concern for the industry or the audience, that they need to have to be able to claim ownership of the concept the way they do. If Frank Cho cannot draw a female character, even a teenage girl, with anything smaller than EEE cup breasts, and Brian Michael Bendis cannot write dialog without some character or other(especially one who would never do such a thing) saying "-The hell?" or "Aw, shit.", these two should not be employed writing or drawing superhero comics.

And that's my two cents.

 

[RJDiogenes]

^^ I agree. Bendis is a great writer on stuff like Powers or Alias, but he shouldn't be writing Avengers (not without an editor that isn't afraid of him, anyway).

I suppose you don't watch black-and-white movies, either.

I do, but movies and comics are different in my eyes.

Well, to each his own. I like to indulge in most styles from most eras.

 

[Smiley]

I think there was some misunderstanding of the word "quality" earlier in this discussion. Quality of things like paper and artwork have gone up since the early years of comics. Quality of writing and characterization are subject to debate.

I inwardly roll my eyes when I see the exclamation marks at the end of every sentence, but I don't let that get in the way of enjoying the story. After a while, my mind accepts the style and pays attention to the content.

 

[Stone_Cold_Sisko]

Comics themselves are too short. There's so much quality dilution with so many titles based around specific heroes. There's no consistent creative vision in the ongoings. They are inaccessible creatively (and no having big huge info dumps in a big balloon or a recap page doesn't make it more accessible). The entire industry revolves around specialty stores. The storylines lack meaning because of how often they up-ended, relaunched, re-jiggered.

 

[Dusty Ayres]

I think there was some misunderstanding of the word "quality" earlier in this discussion.

Not on my part there wasn't; I meant every word. The main problem with the perception of the media, and it's partly the fault of the North American people, is nostalgia. People believe that things in the past were better than things in the present, and as a result, nothing in the present is liked or appreciated until the distant future; that, to me, is the only way somebody could believe that superhero comics of the past are completely better than comics of the present (especially with regards to paper quality, characterization, and story quality). I'm sorry, but anybody with half a brain who's an outsider to comics and is a casual observer could tell you that today's comics are better than yesterday's (check out the reviews of the new Jonah Hex title, or any recent story line; would you see critics going gaga over the storylines of the past books that you and other are saying are better than ones now? Did you not see the critical reviews about the recent Captain Americastoryline? Or the storyline for Batman R.I.P.)

Try to sit down, really read a current story, look at the reviews, and then tell me that today's comic books are crap compared with yesterday's.

 

[Broccoli]

Hasn't Ed Brubaker's ongoing run on Captain Americabeen universally praised by critics and readers alike?

 

[Nerys Myk]

Other than me? Could be.

 

[Andonagio]

Try to sit down, really read a current story, look at the reviews, and then tell me that today's comic books are crap compared with yesterday's.

Today's comics aren't crap. Again, the average story quality in comics today is no worse than it was thirty years ago, at least in my opinion. What's changed is the increasing effort readers of many of Marvel and DC's titles have to put out just to follow a story.

I would love to sit and read Batman R.I.P., but could I read just the one trade without feeling like I was walking into the middle of a larger epic?

 

[C.E. Evans]

I suppose it could be argued that most superhero books are written very much like soap operas in the sense that they generally contain story arcs that sometimes build on one another. There may also be a case of "writing for trades," in which not only are single issue stories decompressed to fit a trade format, but the creators are thinking in terms of trade collections that form a larger story.

A secret motto might be "Don't give readers a good jumping-off point."

 

[FormerLurker]

Which far too quickly and easily becomes "Don't give the readers a good jumping on point."

I don't see the problem with writing and drawing comics that will attract new readers, and then publish and distribute those comics in formats and arenas where new readers, that is, kids, can find them. The incestuous nature of the current comics industry, especially superheroes, will not end well, mainly because the current industry is doomed to end at all.

 

[C.E. Evans]

Which far too quickly and easily becomes "Don't give the readers a good jumping on point."

Not really. Publishers are constantly pushing for new storylines that will allow new readers to come on board. Both Marvel and DC are both using their respective "Heroic Age" and "Brightest Day" banners to that effect.

The incestuous nature of the current comics industry, especially superheroes, will not end well, mainly because the current industry is doomed to end at all.

If so, it's more the fault of consumers than the industry itself. The average age of comic book readers has been steadily skewing older for at least the past 20 years now as more kids have turned to other forms of entertainment. Adults (17 and up) are mostly what's left and the industry has changed to reflect that. If anything, it could be argued that more kids are into comic book-based movies, video games, and cartoon shows rather than comic books themselves...

 

[Mr Light]

What kid in high school could afford to buy a bunch of $4 comic books every week anyway? Hasn't this become a market for the wealthy?

 

[C.E. Evans]

A lot of the move towards $4.00 books is a result of a steadily shrinking customer base and the increased price of making comic books in general (for smaller independent publishers, they generally have to charge $3.50 to $4.00 just to stay afloat), but it's also because publishers like Marvel and DC realized that many of their customers would pay that price for their favorite books. And so far, they've been proven right, IMO.

Comics have been moving towards a luxury item catering to an exclusive market for a long time.

 

[RJDiogenes]

If the average age is skewing higher, why is the content becoming increasingly juvenile?

 

[The Grim Ghost]

Let me be honest here, and say that I much prefer comics from the 50s through the mid 80s to what is coming out today.

That said, my problem is the price. I am not going to spend $4.00 on something that only gives me 10 minutes of entertainment. In fact I wouldn't even spend $3 on a comic.

Everybody has their price cut off point, mine was around $2.00.

I can buy a paperback for $8.00 and get 2 or 3 days of entertainment out of it. And the writing is usually much better. All you lose is the art, and my mind can do a better job than the greatest comic book artist ever could.

We can go on about the paper quality, plots, art, sex, violence, etc. in comics today. And there are good points to be made about that. I do still look through today's comics and I see a lot that I don't like. But I also see a few books I might be interested in picking up...if they weren't so damned expensive.

They aren't ever going to get any cheaper either, only more and more expensive. So I said good bye to comics years ago and I haven't missed them a bit. If I want a fix, I can buy one of those Marvel or DC b/w collections for $20.00 and get days of entertainment out of it.

 

[Lookingglassman]

I was an avid war comic fan and still am, but all the ones I love are too expensive now since they are old. I do like how DC has produced the "Showcase" series which are 500 page volumes of different war series such as GI Combat and SGT Rock, but it sucks that they are all black and white and not the original color.

 

[C.E. Evans]

If the average age is skewing higher, why is the content becoming increasingly juvenile?

What is considered "juvenile" likely varies to person to person. But--IMO--they wouldn't be putting out the books they currently do unless the majority of consumers didn't want them. Consumers once complained about comic books not being edgy and gritty enough, and the industry (namely Marvel and DC) subsequently entered a period of deconstructing characters and making them more flawed, dysfunctional, and a bit more self-serving with stories to match.

 

[RJDiogenes]

Well, I've said before that a big part of the problem with quality is current fashions in pop culture. But we also can't say that the majority of consumers want them when sales volume is down so drastically.