^ I still disagree, but good answer.
Riker to Jellico: There's no Joy. -Are you #$# kidding me?!
- Thread starter Mutara Nebula 1967
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What I don't remember being mentioned here is that ultimately, Jellico had the Enterprise changed to a four shift rotation, and the mission was a success, so doing so proved to be a workable situation for the crew.
Jellico was proven right here.
It was mentioned that Jellico was disrespectful to the crew. Enlighten me. It's been a while since I've seen it, but I don't remember any unprofessional disrespect, although Riker and Jellico should have never had to come to the yelling match they had.
I remember Jellico ultimately talking with Geordi, and taking his advice that he needed Riker. For the good of the mission, Jellico swallowed his pride and asked Riker for help.
He liked to call his officers by their first name, and asked them what name they preferred. He showed no prejudice toward Data, unlike Pulaski or the first officer of the Sutherland. When Deanna tried to talk to Jellico about the crew's hard time adjusting, he was diplomatic in how he talked to her. Sure, he didn't give in, but he didn't have to. He was the captain.
Jellico was proven right here.
It was mentioned that Jellico was disrespectful to the crew. Enlighten me. It's been a while since I've seen it, but I don't remember any unprofessional disrespect, although Riker and Jellico should have never had to come to the yelling match they had.
I remember Jellico ultimately talking with Geordi, and taking his advice that he needed Riker. For the good of the mission, Jellico swallowed his pride and asked Riker for help.
He liked to call his officers by their first name, and asked them what name they preferred. He showed no prejudice toward Data, unlike Pulaski or the first officer of the Sutherland. When Deanna tried to talk to Jellico about the crew's hard time adjusting, he was diplomatic in how he talked to her. Sure, he didn't give in, but he didn't have to. He was the captain.
Jellico was not disrespectful. He was stern and demanding, but that is not the same as disrespect. It's simply a different, more professional style of command. In his mind, treating the crew as military men and women with a clear set of responsibilities, and a strict chain of command to follow, IS the highest form of respect.
Your commanding officer is not your friend. Nor do they have to be.
Your commanding officer is not your friend. Nor do they have to be.
I thought that was actually a very bold thing to say and I enjoy that episode very much. I really love Jellico and DO think he was a great Captain, but I like that line from Riker and think it's the sort of thing an XO should say to his Captain after seeking permission to speak freely, which he did.
Didn't the crew sort of complain a bit in how Picard operated during the first season? At least Encounter at Farpoint...
Maybe I'm misremembering.
What country has a military with the sole mission of combat??? After the big Earthquake in Haiti who were the first ones there?
This is exactly why Picard was planted back onto the Captain's chair. If the Federation council tried to micromanage Starfleet and have Picard beached or put on trial, Starfleet could have responded with a summery vindication of all of Picard's actions while under Borg control.
Which doesn't mean that while Picard was in France, Riker and Troi weren't pulled into the Admiralty and ordered to watch Picard closely.
Now that I think about it, did anyone other than the Enterprise's crew ever refer to the Enterprise Dee as the flagship?
Er, not sure why this is being brought up from like three pages ago, but I obviously never said a military has a "sole mission of combat," so I'm not sure why you're arguing against a point I didn't make.
I said that Starfleet obviously wasn't purely military, since its PRIMARY MISSION was scientific exploration, whereas any purely military organization's primary mission would be defense.
I said that Starfleet obviously wasn't purely military, since its PRIMARY MISSION was scientific exploration, whereas any purely military organization's primary mission would be defense.
I find it funny how people confuse an organization that asks for discipline, professionality and strict command hierarchy with a belligerent military.
First, being from three pages back is irrelevant, if I have a salient point from the first or second post, I (or anyone) could bring it forward. The ancient Roman legions were a pure military organization and a lot of what they did was build roads. The British navy was (and is) a pure military organization and they did a tremendous amount of exploration and map making. The British army too. A sizable part of the mission of the US armed services (a pure military organization) is disaster relief.
The point I'm making is that a pure military organization does a wide variety of things outside of combat/defense.
No, this is where you're wrong. Starfleet would drop a scientific mission in a heart beat, to engage in a combat/defense mission. The opposite isn't true. There may be long periods where exploration occupies them, but that sideline mission isn't their primary mission. In fact if you look at the long list of Starfleet's responsibilities and priorities, pure science is at best in the middle of the list.
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You know, this thread has been sticking in my mind even when I'm away from the computer, good or bad, there's a lot of interesting things to be said about this episode.
But one of the other thoughts that came to me was, didn't Jellico also order that there be a full-time science officer at the aft science station? That sounds like a very easy fix, but I don't recall seeing anybody there for the rest of the episode?
That's always been something that bothered me about the TNG bridge, not having a full time science officer.
But one of the other thoughts that came to me was, didn't Jellico also order that there be a full-time science officer at the aft science station? That sounds like a very easy fix, but I don't recall seeing anybody there for the rest of the episode?
That's always been something that bothered me about the TNG bridge, not having a full time science officer.
I don't know if it was ever stated onscreen, but I know that Data basically functioned as the science officer on the Enterprise.
However, I agree with you about it bugging me.
However, I agree with you about it bugging me.
T'Girl-
again you're arguing that military organizations do things other than engage in combat. I never wrote that they don't. If that's your point, I don't know why you keep repeating it.
I wrote that any military's(and this is pretty much confirmed by any reasonable definition of military) primary mission is defense. Look at oaths that soldiers in armies take. It usually has to do with DEFENDING either a government, a nation, a constitution, a republic, etc. from external or internal enemies.
Kirk and Picard define their mission as "seeking out new life and new civilization, boldly going, "etc...
They don't define it as "To defend the Federation and its citizens from threats and enemies."
And Picard says in NEM that he thinks of himself as an explorer.
again you're arguing that military organizations do things other than engage in combat. I never wrote that they don't. If that's your point, I don't know why you keep repeating it.
I wrote that any military's(and this is pretty much confirmed by any reasonable definition of military) primary mission is defense. Look at oaths that soldiers in armies take. It usually has to do with DEFENDING either a government, a nation, a constitution, a republic, etc. from external or internal enemies.
Kirk and Picard define their mission as "seeking out new life and new civilization, boldly going, "etc...
They don't define it as "To defend the Federation and its citizens from threats and enemies."
And Picard says in NEM that he thinks of himself as an explorer.
Thanks for the insight the episode maes more sense when you put it like that.
Well, Riker did defeat the Borg ship that was about destroy Earth...if that's not a good enough reason to have a sense of entitelment, I don't know what is.
Realistically, Data and Picard defeated the Borg ship.
Quite.Of course there's no joy. There's not SUPPOSED to be! Starfleet may not be militaristic, but it is MILITARY, and that's enough. You want joy, go on shore leave. You want a job done right, get serious!
That's true, actually.
Riker was actually at the end of his rope; his only remaining idea was to plow the Enterprise into the heart of the Borg ship and hope that would work.
Somehow, I get the feeling that Riker's standing with TPTB at Starfleet really isn't all that high.
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