Riker to Jellico: There's no Joy. -Are you #$# kidding me?!

[Mutara Nebula 1967]

From CHAINS OF COMMAND Part 2-when Riker and Jellico have their long awaited confrontation....

I cannot believe the writers had Riker say that when he's describing that the crew has been wound up tight by Jellico.

I've never been in the military but I have to believe that Jellico is probably more what the real captain of a naval ship would be like compared to the more laid back Picard.

Can you imagine the XO of an aircraft carrier telling his captain that there is no JOY in the crew?

Best part of the storyline was early on when Riker looks to "daddy Picard" for help when he didn't carry out Jellico's orders to have the four crew rotation and Picard says nothing knowing that if Jellico asked for something he should have "Got it Done".

 

[JarodRussell]

The way the crew was depicted in this episode was pretty awful. Like a bunch of whiners. They are in the military. Space travel is dangerous, and so is being in a war with other races.

Sisko would have taken Riker apart in that episode, lol.

 

[Mysterion]

Jellico was right. Riker and the rest of the whiners were wrong.

 

[sonak]

As someone who has previously been in the military, I've seen this misconception about Jellico before.

Yes, crewmembers are expected to perform their duties with professionalism, and their is a limit to how much they can openly complain, but a commanding officer should be very concerned about crew morale, even during times of war. A Captain should not be a dictator, but should be interested in feedback from his subordinates about conditions on the ship, as well as the job he is doing.

Ideally, officers should strive to encourage an atmosphere of mutual respect. It's not just about issuing orders left and right, and making unreasonable demands on subordinates.

Jellico made clear that he didn't care very much about the feelings of the senior officers or how the changed work shift orders he gave would affect morale. This is not being an effective Captain who cares about what is going on with the people he serves with.

 

[SeerSGB]

I'll put it this way, on my list of Captains I'd served under Jellico is number three, Picard is number 7.

 

[Shatnertage]

Whenever I see this, I sympathize with Jellico. I agree that the 4-shift rotation was not a great move, but he sure knew how to handle the Cardassians.

And Riker just had a sense of entitlement that wasn't very flattering. It's not really consistent with the character as we've seen him.

 

[JarodRussell]

Ironically, weren't they doing the 4-shift thing on DS9 and were all positive about it?

 

[flemm]

Sisko would have taken Riker apart in that episode, lol.

Haha, I do get a laugh out of imagining that (very short) conversation

 

[Jonas Grumby]

This was an awful episode, made watchable only by Ronnie Cox' performance as Jellico. In this episode, I was pulling for Jellico all the way, and felt nothing but contempt for the Enterprise crew.

 

[milo bloom]

This does seem like an instance of overwriting a character to make our people look better, but the point remains that Starfleet is not a purely military group and it never made sense to me to make such a drastic change as the 4 shift thing right before what could possibly be a war or at least a very big battle. Riker would have come across better if he could have backed it up with Starfleet protocols about changing things like this so he didn't just come across as a whiner.

 

[sonak]

eh, I guess I just don't see them coming across as "whiners." They just seem like they're having trouble adjusting to Jellico's more abrasive and rigid style after serving so long under Picard.


However, I did like the change in having Troi wear an actual Starfleet uniform. It was just silly that a regular officer in the crew, especially one on the bridge, could just wear whatever casual clothes she felt like. In that case,why can't Riker be up there in a t-shirt and jeans?

 

[RAMA]

From CHAINS OF COMMAND Part 2-when Riker and Jellico have their long awaited confrontation....

I cannot believe the writers had Riker say that when he's describing that the crew has been wound up tight by Jellico.

I've never been in the military but I have to believe that Jellico is probably more what the real captain of a naval ship would be like compared to the more laid back Picard.

Can you imagine the XO of an aircraft carrier telling his captain that there is no JOY in the crew?

Best part of the storyline was early on when Riker looks to "daddy Picard" for help when he didn't carry out Jellico's orders to have the four crew rotation and Picard says nothing knowing that if Jellico asked for something he should have "Got it Done".

If morale was low, hell yes the exec would probably have said something along those lines...and remember for most of STNG starfleet was only quasi-military...till the Borg threat loomed...then the Dominion in the moives.

RAMA

 

[RAMA]

This was an awful episode, made watchable only by Ronnie Cox' performance as Jellico. In this episode, I was pulling for Jellico all the way, and felt nothing but contempt for the Enterprise crew.

I still can't believe there are people who liked Jellico in this two-parter. lol

RAMA

 

[Jonas Grumby]

^ Really? You actually "can't believe" it? Your view of the world must be very narrow.

 

[milo bloom]

The Troi in uniform was one of the few positive things to come out of that confrontation. Elizabeth Dehner set the precedent way back in WNMHGB so it was silly to have her out of uniform.

 

[STR]

As someone who has previously been in the military, I've seen this misconception about Jellico before.

Yes, crewmembers are expected to perform their duties with professionalism, and their is a limit to how much they can openly complain, but a commanding officer should be very concerned about crew morale, even during times of war. A Captain should not be a dictator, but should be interested in feedback from his subordinates about conditions on the ship, as well as the job he is doing.

Ideally, officers should strive to encourage an atmosphere of mutual respect. It's not just about issuing orders left and right, and making unreasonable demands on subordinates.

Jellico made clear that he didn't care very much about the feelings of the senior officers or how the changed work shift orders he gave would affect morale. This is not being an effective Captain who cares about what is going on with the people he serves with.

And from a civilian management perspective, I'd agree too. If you have a goal (stop the cardies) you don't increase confusion and add risk by complicating that with distractions. Switch shift rotations in the middle of a crisis is asinine.

You also shouldn't expect to roll in and think the entire unit culture will turn around on your whim. People can argue on principle as much as they want, it's all opinion and can't go anywhere, but in reality you don't purposely introduce disruptions without good reason. It reduces productivity. That is a fact, not an opinion. It's is the nature of workforces, military of civilian. Only difference is the military people will keep their mouths shut when around superiors, but let fly when they're alone.

 

[Hober Mallow]

Even when I saw this episode as a kid I thought the crew were whining too much.

LaForge: "Commander, you've got to do something about this crazy guy. He's making us work."

Riker: "I know, I know. I'll take care of it, don't worry."

Only a couple weeks after this episode first aired, DS9 premiered, and Picard had the audacity to lecture Sisko about Starfleet officers not always being able to serve in an ideal environment.

 

[Holdfast]

And from a civilian management perspective, I'd agree too. If you have a goal (stop the cardies) you don't increase confusion and add risk by complicating that with distractions. Switch shift rotations in the middle of a crisis is asinine.

You also shouldn't expect to roll in and think the entire unit culture will turn around on your whim. People can argue on principle as much as they want, it's all opinion and can't go anywhere, but in reality you don't purposely introduce disruptions without good reason. It reduces productivity. That is a fact, not an opinion. It's is the nature of workforces, military of civilian. Only difference is the military people will keep their mouths shut when around superiors, but let fly when they're alone.

This was precisely my issue. It just didn't make sense for Jellico to disrupt what was a pretty smoothly functioning organisation with a clear sense of hierarchy, especially when facing a major crisis.

Did he have the right? Sure. But that doesn't make it good management style.

 

[JarodRussell]

Even when I saw this episode as a kid I thought the crew were whining too much.

LaForge: "Commander, you've got to do something about this crazy guy. He's making us work."

Riker: "I know, I know. I'll take care of it, don't worry."

Only a couple weeks after this episode first aired, DS9 premiered, and Picard had the audacity to lecture Sisko about Starfleet officers not always being able to serve in an ideal environment.

That's because Picard, unlike Riker, knows that Starfleet is a military organization and not a pleasant vacation.

I'm reminded of the Barclay episode, where Geordi and Riker were constantly whining about Barclay and wanted to transfer him to another ship.
It was Picard who had to tell them how to handle the situation and that they just can't transfer him just because they don't like him.

 

[Brutal Strudel]

Ironically, weren't they doing the 4-shift thing on DS9 and were all positive about it?

Didn't Picard keep the 4 shift rotation?