Riker to Jellico: There's no Joy. -Are you #$# kidding me?!

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ As first officer, Data wasn't a yes-man. He was "not a dickhead". Big difference there.

 

[Dancing Doctor]

From Memory Alpha:

As captain of the Enterprise, Jellico was a very stern and authoritarian officer, with a micro-management leadership style. He abruptly made several changes to the operations of the Enterprise. He preferred a certain formality on the bridge, insisting that Deanna Troi wear a standard uniform and that his presence be announced whenever he entered. In contrast to the strict standards he expected on the bridge, he revealed a more personal side by putting up pictures drawn by his son in the Enterprise's ready room. However, he ordered the removal of Livingston the fish.

Though his manner of command is connected with high efficiency, Jellico ran into numerous confrontations with Enterprise's first officer, Commander William T. Riker. The initial problems between them stemmed from Jellico's desire to see the Enterprise run on a four shift rotation when it had previously run on three. The change was difficult to implement, but Jellico refused to accept Riker's reasons for not having made the change. The friction between the two came to a head after a major disagreement on how to deal with Picard's abduction by the Cardassians on Celtris III. Jellico relieved Riker and installed Lieutenant Commander Data as his new XO.

In an attempt to gain an upper hand against the Cardassians, Jellico intended to plant mines on the Cardassian ships hiding in the McAllister C-5 Nebula. Chief Engineer Geordi La Forge was willing to take on the mission but recommended to Jellico that the most skilled pilot on board Enterprise was Riker. After a frank conversation, Riker accepted the mission, content with his knowledge that Jellico still needed him. Riker admitted that he saw Jellico as someone who wound his crew up too tight, leaving them unable to perform their jobs with any efficiency.

With the anti-matter mines in place, Jellico contacted the Cardassian fleet and demonstrated his ability to destroy it at will. From his position of strength, he demanded that the Cardassian fleet eject their primary phaser coils, withdraw to the nearest Cardassian starbase, and immediately release Picard, who was being held prisoner by the Cardassians. The Cardassians complied completely.

 

[SeerSGB]

That scene right there, in Riker's quarters, really soured me on the character for a while. The fate of the Federation, of the ship, of his friends, is riding on this mission and his playing smart-ass games with Jellico. Had I been Jellico, I would have just ordered him to do it or cool his heels in the brig.

 

[Dancing Doctor]

I'd have been pissed, especially since "most skilled" doesn't necessarily mean "most important".

"You mean, I've got to stroke your damn ego before you do anything?"

 

[Shatnertage]

I'd have been pissed, especially since "most skilled" doesn't necessarily mean "most important".

"You mean, I've got to stroke your damn ego before you do anything?"

That's it exactly. It's really hard to see Riker as the good guy there. And it doesn't speak well for his command potential: if you can't deal with a superior officer who doesn't agree with you 100%, how will you tolerate differences in your crew?

 

[Dancing Doctor]

At that point, Riker should have given up on any further offers of starship command (until Nemesis came along).

 

[JarodRussell]

Wasn't the main reason for all the changes he made to give the impression of this being a long-term command, and not just a temporary replacement? In case Cardassian intelligence observed them somehow?

That scene right there, in Riker's quarters, really soured me on the character for a while. The fate of the Federation, of the ship, of his friends, is riding on this mission and his playing smart-ass games with Jellico. Had I been Jellico, I would have just ordered him to do it or cool his heels in the brig.

They don't to that in Starfleet. In times of crisis, people who disagree with the Captain are thrown into escape pods.

 

[Dancing Doctor]

Wasn't the main reason for all the changes he made to give the impression of this being a long-term command, and not just a temporary replacement? In case Cardassian intelligence observed them somehow?

I don't know if they ever said, but that's as good a reason as any.

Realistically, because he's the commanding officer, he has the right and authority to change the ship's routines, among other things. Starfleet and its ships aren't a democracy, contrary to what some crew members may think.

That scene right there, in Riker's quarters, really soured me on the character for a while. The fate of the Federation, of the ship, of his friends, is riding on this mission and his playing smart-ass games with Jellico. Had I been Jellico, I would have just ordered him to do it or cool his heels in the brig.

They don't to that in Starfleet. In times of crisis, people who disagree with the Captain are thrown into escape pods.

 

[Shatnertage]

Plus, Jellico had paid his dues to get the captain's seat, and was taking on a responsibility that Riker himself wasn't willing to. If crew members were killed, Jellico would be writing letters to their families, not Riker. If they'd have lost the ship, the folks back home would have said, "Jellico lost the Enterprise," not "Riker lost the Enterprise."

If you're a career officer, how do you not respect that? I can't see anything short of treason/violation of the Fed charter/unethical behavior being a reason to disrespect your commanding officer like that.

And it's pretty much at odds with how the character had been developed up until then.

Maybe if nuKirk had invested in a silky robe instead of his black t-shirt, he would have gotten a second chance?

 

[Hartzilla2007]

That scene right there, in Riker's quarters, really soured me on the character for a while. The fate of the Federation, of the ship, of his friends, is riding on this mission and his playing smart-ass games with Jellico. Had I been Jellico, I would have just ordered him to do it or cool his heels in the brig.

They don't to that in Starfleet. In times of crisis, people who disagree with the Captain are thrown into escape pods.

Unless the disagreeing officer is of flag rank then the captain shuts up and does what ever he says even if said officer

1) Brings up a good point about not leting billions die even if it kills you but is still clearly nuts.

and

2) Doesn't have the slightest clue how to command a starship.

 

[SeerSGB]

Wasn't the main reason for all the changes he made to give the impression of this being a long-term command, and not just a temporary replacement? In case Cardassian intelligence observed them somehow?

I don't know if they ever said, but that's as good a reason as any.

Realistically, because he's the commanding officer, he has the right and authority to change the ship's routines, among other things. Starfleet and its ships aren't a democracy, contrary to what some crew members may think.

That scene right there, in Riker's quarters, really soured me on the character for a while. The fate of the Federation, of the ship, of his friends, is riding on this mission and his playing smart-ass games with Jellico. Had I been Jellico, I would have just ordered him to do it or cool his heels in the brig.

They don't to that in Starfleet. In times of crisis, people who disagree with the Captain are thrown into escape pods.

IRC (gotta rewatch the ep now...as if I needed an excuse ) Riker comments that they don't go through the change of command ceremony for a temp. captain; which would seem to me to say they were putting on a lot of show for any Cardies watching.

 

[Red Ranger]

No, he just said it's not PURELY a military organization, which is pretty hard to debate if you look at TNG. They're obviously not just an outer space version of a military. If you acknowledge that their primary mission is exploration, how can you then say that they're purely military? What country has a military with a primary mission of scientific exploration???Yes, Starfleet has defense as part of their responsibilities, but no less an authority than the creator of Star Trek itself, Gene Roddenberry, didn't like the trend in TWOK and TUC of accentuating Starfleet's more militaristic traits.

In times of war, like the Dominion War, yes they're the ones called on, but they're not just a military.

This.

And from a civilian management perspective, I'd agree too. If you have a goal (stop the cardies) you don't increase confusion and add risk by complicating that with distractions. Switch shift rotations in the middle of a crisis is asinine.

You also shouldn't expect to roll in and think the entire unit culture will turn around on your whim. People can argue on principle as much as they want, it's all opinion and can't go anywhere, but in reality you don't purposely introduce disruptions without good reason. It reduces productivity. That is a fact, not an opinion. It's is the nature of workforces, military of civilian. Only difference is the military people will keep their mouths shut when around superiors, but let fly when they're alone.

This was precisely my issue. It just didn't make sense for Jellico to disrupt what was a pretty smoothly functioning organisation with a clear sense of hierarchy, especially when facing a major crisis.

Did he have the right? Sure. But that doesn't make it good management style.

Yes, he had the right. But that didn't make him right.

And this.

 

[Mark Antony]

At this point Riker was a Super Hero after he saved all of humankind by destroying the Borg. But Jellico never treated Riker with the respect he deserved - or was used to under Picard. Jellico seemed to think that Riker was his Personal Assistant. It makes you wonder how the Captain-First Officer relationship works on other ships.
If Riker had of been the XO on Voyager then Janeway would not have been allowed to murder Tuvix. If Riker was the XO on the ship in The Wounded, then its Captain would have been stopped earlier from his personal war against the Cardassians.
Riker was a second Captain on the Enterprise. But Jellico thought of him as just another jabroni XO. Jellico was disrespectful to Troi, Dr. Crusher, and La Forge. He never seemed interested in trying to get the crew on his side.
If Jellico had of continued as Captain, then Riker, Troi, Crusher, and La Forge, would of all transferred to other ships. Jellico would have brought his own people in. I'd say they probably would have been young and docile.

 

[Brutal Strudel]

I'd have been pissed, especially since "most skilled" doesn't necessarily mean "most important".

"You mean, I've got to stroke your damn ego before you do anything?"

That's it exactly. It's really hard to see Riker as the good guy there. And it doesn't speak well for his command potential: if you can't deal with a superior officer who doesn't agree with you 100%, how will you tolerate differences in your crew?

On NuBSG, Apollo, under arrest for disobeying Tigh's orders, sprung into action when his Viper was needed. Later, after he'd resigned the service to pursue a career as a civilian politician/lawyer, he jumped back into his Viper when the fleet was once again attacked.

Maybe Jellico was wrong for shaking too many things up at once but Riker was far more wrong in his insubordination and pissiness.

 

[Jonas Grumby]

Maybe Jellico was wrong for shaking too many things up at once but Riker was far more wrong in his insubordination and pissiness.

You're 100% right about Riker, but I don't think Jellico was wrong for shaking things up. Far, far better to find out if your new crew is going to balk at your orders before you're in the middle of a dust-up with the Cardies.

 

[Brutal Strudel]

Maybe Jellico was wrong for shaking too many things up at once but Riker was far more wrong in his insubordination and pissiness.

You're 100% right about Riker, but I don't think Jellico was wrong for shaking things up. Far, far better to find out if your new crew is going to balk at your orders before you're in the middle of a dust-up with the Cardies.

I agree, I don't think Jellico was wrong for making the demands he made on "the best crew in Starfleet," I just figured I'd try to meet the Jellico-haters halfway by saying "maybe."

I should add that this is one of the very few (10 or 15) episodes of TNG that I feel is worth re-watching, not just for Ronny Cox (awesome!) but also for David Warner (super awesome!). I never much cared for Riker so I have no problem with hating him here.

 

[Jonas Grumby]

I agree, I don't think Jellico was wrong for making the demands he made on "the best crew in Starfleet," I just figured I'd try to meet the Jellico-haters halfway by saying "maybe."

Well, they do say blessed are the peacemakers!

And to tell you the truth, I'm really beginning to wonder if maybe Picard was the only one who ever referred to these guys as "the best crew in Starfleet."

 

[SeerSGB]

I agree, I don't think Jellico was wrong for making the demands he made on "the best crew in Starfleet," I just figured I'd try to meet the Jellico-haters halfway by saying "maybe."

Well, they do say blessed are the peacemakers!

And to tell you the truth, I'm really beginning to wonder if maybe Picard was the only one who ever referred to these guys as "the best crew in Starfleet."

Hmmm...now that is a thinker. Maybe they weren't the worse, but not the best of the best either.

 

[Dancing Doctor]

I agree, I don't think Jellico was wrong for making the demands he made on "the best crew in Starfleet," I just figured I'd try to meet the Jellico-haters halfway by saying "maybe."

Well, they do say blessed are the peacemakers!

And to tell you the truth, I'm really beginning to wonder if maybe Picard was the only one who ever referred to these guys as "the best crew in Starfleet."

Hmmm...now that is a thinker. Maybe they weren't the worse, but not the best of the best either.

Eh. I would hope that the "flagship" would have the best of the best.

 

[SeerSGB]

Well, they do say blessed are the peacemakers!

And to tell you the truth, I'm really beginning to wonder if maybe Picard was the only one who ever referred to these guys as "the best crew in Starfleet."

Hmmm...now that is a thinker. Maybe they weren't the worse, but not the best of the best either.

Eh. I would hope that the "flagship" would have the best of the best.

Not necessarily. They might be great from a PR standpoint, but not top of the heap in the down-and-dirty real work of the fleet.