Oh, for Pete's Sake: They're actually filming the Potter 7 epilogue

[DarthPipes]

Re: Oh, for Pete's Sake: They're actually filming the Potter 7 epilogu

I enjoyed the epilogue as well. It was a nice ending for the series and I really don't see what the problem is.

Is it because of the various ships? So Harry ended up with Ginny and Ron with Hermione? Big freaking deal. I thought Harry and Hermione would have made a decent couple too but I got over that.

almost got her KILLED at age 11

Oh, give me a break with this. Did Ron know a cave troll would break into Hogwarts and just happen to wander into the exact same place Hermione was at? Who the hell could have seen that coming? Hermione was being an annoying know-it-all and Ron made fun of her. That's the way kids act. Who the hell could have seen it resulting in Hermione being in the exact same place where a cave troll would be? This is a ridiculous complaint.

I like Harry and Ginny but I agree this was a woefully underdeveloped relationship. When they finally kiss in HBP, Rowling decides to tell us how great their relationship is instead of showing it to us.

As for Dumbledore, I think his greatest crime is that he is the biggest enabler when it comes to how badly children are treated. He could have taken the Durselys to task long ago in regards to their treatment to Harry but he didn't. This seems to be his standard MO.

A couple of years ago, a reader asked JK Rowling why Dumbledore allowed Snape to be so nasty a teacher. Rowling said "Dumbledore believes there are all sorts of lessons in life ... horrible teachers like Snape are one of them!" . It's very true that we have to deal with people who don't like us and with teachers that are tough on us. But to allow and enable Snape to bully his students is wrong. It's one thing to have to deal with students who bully you but teachers?

The fact that Neville Longbottom's greatest fear is his DODA teacher Snape is very, very distrubing. But evidently, it doesn't bother DD that Snape bullies students like Neville and is blatantly unfair to anyone not in his house. By not reiging in Snape, DD effectively condoned Snape's tactics.

Not to mention how unfair it was to the student's education. Snape was the only known teacher to accept students only if they obtained a perfect grade on their OWLs. How many potential good potionmasters had their careers cut short because they fell a little short of Snape's absolutely perfect standards? It's telling that Harry learned more about potions from Snape's writings than Snape's verbal teachings. I guess DD isn't that concerned about his students education as well.

EDIT: About the epilogue pictures, both Harry and Ron look ridiculously old. While they did make Radcliffe look like the actor who played his father in the films, he looks more like a 57-year-old man than a 37-year-old. Same with Ron. Ginny looks perfectly aged. Draco looks a little too old here but I don't mind in this case. Draco deserves to prematurely age. The kids look right.

 

[Tulin]

Re: Oh, for Pete's Sake: They're actually filming the Potter 7 epilogu

and that means it's ok to talk about that subject.... still...
grow up....

Homophobe.

Oh and where I live(Australia), age of consent is 16.

Deal with it.

 

[Gaith]

Re: Oh, for Pete's Sake: They're actually filming the Potter 7 epilogu

I don't think there's a single mention of sex in the series. Maybe wizards don't do it. Maybe storks send them babies via apparition.

And, given how reactive Harry is the whole series, I can't help but wonder if he prefers it when Ginny pitches...

 

[darkwing_duck1]

Re: Oh, for Pete's Sake: They're actually filming the Potter 7 epilogu

almost got her KILLED at age 11

Oh, give me a break with this. Did Ron know a cave troll would break into Hogwarts and just happen to wander into the exact same place Hermione was at? Who the hell could have seen that coming? Hermione was being an annoying know-it-all and Ron made fun of her. That's the way kids act.

Well he certainly didn't learn his lesson, because he continues his mistreatment of Hermione throughout the rest of the series.

I like Harry and Ginny but I agree this was a woefully underdeveloped relationship.

There was no relationship AT ALL. Ginny was a cypher for five books, good only for sticking her elbows in butter dishes, etc.

When they finally kiss in HBP, Rowling decides to tell us how great their relationship is instead of showing it to us.

A relationship fueled by Harry's "chest monster" obsessiveness, which is a sign of potions at work, not hormones.

As for Dumbledore, I think his greatest crime is that he is the biggest enabler when it comes to how badly children are treated. He could have taken the Durselys to task long ago in regards to their treatment to Harry but he didn't. This seems to be his standard MO.

Well, we agree on this at least, though you don't go far enough.

A couple of years ago, a reader asked JK Rowling why Dumbledore allowed Snape to be so nasty a teacher. Rowling said "Dumbledore believes there are all sorts of lessons in life ... horrible teachers like Snape are one of them!" . It's very true that we have to deal with people who don't like us and with teachers that are tough on us. But to allow and enable Snape to bully his students is wrong. It's one thing to have to deal with students who bully you but teachers?

In any REAL school, DD would be canned for what he allowed Snape to do.

The fact that Neville Longbottom's greatest fear is his DODA teacher Snape is very, very distrubing. But evidently, it doesn't bother DD that Snape bullies students like Neville and is blatantly unfair to anyone not in his house. By not reiging in Snape, DD effectively condoned Snape's tactics.

Yep.

Not to mention how unfair it was to the student's education. Snape was the only known teacher to accept students only if they obtained a perfect grade on their OWLs. How many potential good potionmasters had their careers cut short because they fell a little short of Snape's absolutely perfect standards? It's telling that Harry learned more about potions from Snape's writings than Snape's verbal teachings. I guess DD isn't that concerned about his students education as well.

Yep again.

Oh, and lets also add in the bright idea of having said bully in teacher's robes be forced into the position of tampering with Harry's mind with so-called "Occumulency lessons". Snape's treatment of Harry during those lessons is nothing short of mental abuse...LITERAL mental abuse. One could call it akin to rape in terms of the violence done to Harry's mind.

And THIS is the man whom Rowling insists that Harry would name a child after...one a passive abuser/abuse enabler, the other the worst sort of bully and serial child abuser...yeah right...

 

[Tulin]

Re: Oh, for Pete's Sake: They're actually filming the Potter 7 epilogu

When you put it that way, I kinda have to agree....

 

[Shazam!]

Re: Oh, for Pete's Sake: They're actually filming the Potter 7 epilogu

we'll see... I reported it....

*epic facepalm*

 

[opali]

Re: Oh, for Pete's Sake: They're actually filming the Potter 7 epilogu

The epilogue was what she wanted it to be, and I can see the reasons they would end the movie with that scene.

My son and I had tons of fun throughout the series with her subtle hints and hidden clues. She is a good writer and has mastered the art of exploring and communicating human emotions. We both really enjoyed her wit and attention to detail. Consequently, the epilogue fell pretty flat for me, and I thought it could have been more on par with her abilities.

But then, it was just an epilogue, not part of the plot or story line. My son liked it, and liked finding out what 'happened' to everyone. That's good enough for me.

 

[Lapis Exilis]

Re: Oh, for Pete's Sake: They're actually filming the Potter 7 epilogu

And that's the stupid: instead of leaving the future up to readers' imaginations, Rowling forces the shiniest, absolute best-case scenario down our throats, credibility be damned. The characters are bent into serving the needs of the plot, a fundamental artistic error. The whole thing just stinks.

I don't see where credibility was ever a big part of the HP books. They rely on a variety of authorial invention of new rules for the fictional universe introduced at the last minute (several outlined in this thread) and generally explained afterwards in the inevitable, "Let me tell you what just happened, Harry" scenes with Dumbledore - which Rowling even manages to throw in after DD is dead in TDH! They always struck me as formulaic tales that make no attempt to present a realistic human psychology within the characters. So applying a credibility criticism to the epilogue alone doesn't really seem that reasonable. The epilogue seemed to me to fit exactly with the tone and direction of all the previous storytelling. In fact, it was pretty inevitable all along. Rowling was not trying to create some complex exploration of... well, anything. These were simple, enjoyable young adult adventure wish-fulfillment tales in which good inevitably triumphs over evil. Wrapping up with a safe, domestic, circle-of-life Harry-becomes-a-marvelous-parent-and-has-a-lovely-normal-family-after-offing-his-parents'-murderer - how in the world else did anyone expect it to end? Every single thing in every book was leading exactly to that.

 

[opali]

Re: Oh, for Pete's Sake: They're actually filming the Potter 7 epilogu

And that's the stupid: instead of leaving the future up to readers' imaginations, Rowling forces the shiniest, absolute best-case scenario down our throats, credibility be damned. The characters are bent into serving the needs of the plot, a fundamental artistic error. The whole thing just stinks.

I don't see where credibility was ever a big part of the HP books. They rely on a variety of authorial invention of new rules for the fictional universe introduced at the last minute (several outlined in this thread) and generally explained afterwards in the inevitable, "Let me tell you what just happened, Harry" scenes with Dumbledore - which Rowling even manages to throw in after DD is dead in TDH! They always struck me as formulaic tales that make no attempt to present a realistic human psychology within the characters. So applying a credibility criticism to the epilogue alone doesn't really seem that reasonable. The epilogue seemed to me to fit exactly with the tone and direction of all the previous storytelling. In fact, it was pretty inevitable all along. Rowling was not trying to create some complex exploration of... well, anything. These were simple, enjoyable young adult adventure wish-fulfillment tales in which good inevitably triumphs over evil. Wrapping up with a safe, domestic, circle-of-life Harry-becomes-a-marvelous-parent-and-has-a-lovely-normal-family-after-offing-his-parents'-murderer - how in the world else did anyone expect it to end? Every single thing in every book was leading exactly to that.

Well, if you are to read many of her comments and conversations about it, she put quite a bit of thought into the complexity of the characters and their motivations; that's part of why it bridged the gap and appealed to both young and old readers. And especially because of her nagging internal thoughts about life after death, the untimely death of her mother, and other deep issues she had to deal with in her life, I would not go so far as to say it was a simple young adult adventure tale. She wanted it to be thought-provoking and challenging as well.

All that to say, again, it was just the epilogue, so I take it for what she wanted it to be.

 

[darkwing_duck1]

Re: Oh, for Pete's Sake: They're actually filming the Potter 7 epilogu

And that's the stupid: instead of leaving the future up to readers' imaginations, Rowling forces the shiniest, absolute best-case scenario down our throats, credibility be damned. The characters are bent into serving the needs of the plot, a fundamental artistic error. The whole thing just stinks.

I don't see where credibility was ever a big part of the HP books. They rely on a variety of authorial invention of new rules for the fictional universe introduced at the last minute (several outlined in this thread) and generally explained afterwards in the inevitable, "Let me tell you what just happened, Harry" scenes with Dumbledore - which Rowling even manages to throw in after DD is dead in TDH! They always struck me as formulaic tales that make no attempt to present a realistic human psychology within the characters. So applying a credibility criticism to the epilogue alone doesn't really seem that reasonable. The epilogue seemed to me to fit exactly with the tone and direction of all the previous storytelling. In fact, it was pretty inevitable all along. Rowling was not trying to create some complex exploration of... well, anything. These were simple, enjoyable young adult adventure wish-fulfillment tales in which good inevitably triumphs over evil. Wrapping up with a safe, domestic, circle-of-life Harry-becomes-a-marvelous-parent-and-has-a-lovely-normal-family-after-offing-his-parents'-murderer - how in the world else did anyone expect it to end? Every single thing in every book was leading exactly to that.

No one wants to deny Harry his "happy ever after". But we want it to be based on some reasonable semblance of logic. Naming kids after men who abused him is not logical. Marrying the Potions Princess is not logical. Hermione marrying moRon is not logical.

 

[JoeZhang]

Re: Oh, for Pete's Sake: They're actually filming the Potter 7 epilogu

I haven't read these books - so do they end with Harry doing some girl up the Gary Glitter as suggested above? Really?

 

[Caligula]

Re: Oh, for Pete's Sake: They're actually filming the Potter 7 epilogu

No one wants to deny Harry his "happy ever after". But we want it to be based on some reasonable semblance of logic. Naming kids after men who abused him is not logical. Marrying the Potions Princess is not logical. Hermione marrying moRon is not logical.

Such is life. People get married for all sorts of reasons. If logic factored into it, and we all wed based solely on who was the best choice for us rather than what our hormones tells us is right, would there be any need for divorce? We're not Vulcans, after all.

 

[darkwing_duck1]

Re: Oh, for Pete's Sake: They're actually filming the Potter 7 epilogu

No one wants to deny Harry his "happy ever after". But we want it to be based on some reasonable semblance of logic. Naming kids after men who abused him is not logical. Marrying the Potions Princess is not logical. Hermione marrying moRon is not logical.

Such is life. People get married for all sorts of reasons. If logic factored into it, and we all wed based solely on who was the best choice for us rather than what our hormones tells us is right, would there be any need for divorce? We're not Vulcans, after all.

BS.

You're just trying to "give a bye" to Rowling's utter lack of reason and logic in her pairing choices. She spends the whole series setting things up one way, then pulls a "bait and switch" and does another.

That's bad writing no matter how you try to justify it.

 

[Joy]

Re: Oh, for Pete's Sake: They're actually filming the Potter 7 epilogu

The whole idea of the books was that "love trumps all." So the fact that it all ends with a nice scene showing a bright, shiny peek at familial love... it makes perfect sense to me.

 

[darkwing_duck1]

Re: Oh, for Pete's Sake: They're actually filming the Potter 7 epilogu

The whole idea of the books was that "love trumps all." So the fact that it all ends with a nice scene showing a bright, shiny peek at familial love... it makes perfect sense to me.

Again, NO ONE IS DENYING Harry his "happy ever after".

NO ONE.

What those of us who hate the Crapalogue are saying is that the FORM of that "happy ever after" is illogical and inconsistent with the rest of the books.

 

[Gaith]

Re: Oh, for Pete's Sake: They're actually filming the Potter 7 epilogu

darkwing, though your pic weirds me out, I agree with you on this one, but really think "psychologically credible" would be a better choice of terminology than "illogical" when describing romantic pairings.

 

[cultcross]

Re: Oh, for Pete's Sake: They're actually filming the Potter 7 epilogu

She spends the whole series setting things up one way, then pulls a "bait and switch" and does another.

Hermione/Ron is set up almost from day one, and I can't believe you didn't see it - the only reason you couldn't have done is if you're a Harry/Hermione shipper who refused to see the plainly obvious. I could see it coming from Askaban, and there are moments of it before that, looking back. Harry/Ginny was more a marriage of convenience in that there were no other remaining characters who were credible, and Harry needed an emotional tie to Hogwarts in book 7 a bit stronger than Neville, but Harry/Hermione was never on the cards. And Ginny was a lot better choice than Cho, who was a horrible character, probably deliberately.

 

[darkwing_duck1]

Re: Oh, for Pete's Sake: They're actually filming the Potter 7 epilogu

She spends the whole series setting things up one way, then pulls a "bait and switch" and does another.

Hermione/Ron is set up almost from day one, and I can't believe you didn't see it - the only reason you couldn't have done is if you're a Harry/Hermione shipper who refused to see the plainly obvious. I could see it coming from Askaban, and there are moments of it before that, looking back. Harry/Ginny was more a marriage of convenience in that there were no other remaining characters who were credible, and Harry needed an emotional tie to Hogwarts in book 7 a bit stronger than Neville, but Harry/Hermione was never on the cards. And Ginny was a lot better choice than Cho, who was a horrible character, probably deliberately.

Bull.

Harry/Hermione is the relationship set up from Book 1.

Hermione tells him in the potions puzzle room: “Me! Books! And cleverness! There are more important things — friendship and bravery and — oh Harry — be careful!”. Clearly she is expressing her deep feeling for Harry in the only way a pre-pubescent girl could (them still being pre-teens). It is said that people seek out for relationships those who most resemble their opposite sex parent. On that basis CLEARLY Hermoine is the winner. Like Lily, she is the smartest witch of her generation. She has a sweet disposition unless riled up (and then watch out!) She is always by his side, with the exception of the Broom Incident, and the Book Incident, and even then she was only looking out for his best interests. She STAYS by him even when moRon abandons them (4th year, the hoarcrux hunt).

Yes, it is ENTIRELY logical and reasonable that she would forego all that and pair off with slovenly, slothful, fair-weather friend Ron Weasley, who went out of his way to berate and verbally abuse her almost from the moment they met...

And then there's Ginny, the non-entity for 5 books (other than a stint as "damsel in distress" in Book 2). You admit she's a "default" choice, but she's not even worthy of that.

She's a nobody, a cipher. She's "Ron's little sister". Harry never really notices her in a boy/girl fashion until the emergence of the "chest monster" in Book 6. That sudden and out of proportion reaction to her and Dean (IIRC) is not the product of legitimate good feeling. It is at best a sudden obsession. Keep in mind how Amortentia works. And also keep in mind there is a family history of Weasley women dosing their love interests (which Molly fesses up to in Book 5).

From 5-book non-entity to love of his life in one book...yeah, that's natural and healthy...oh, but wait, she has RED hair, so obviously SHE is Harry's destined mate because Lily had red hair... [/FONT]

 

[Tulin]

Re: Oh, for Pete's Sake: They're actually filming the Potter 7 epilogu

God - I couldn't actually read that post.

"preview" is your friend.


Oh and edited to add: Are we REALLY going the "fourteen year old girl shipper conversation" route"?

Now would be a good time for that vomitting smilie.

 

[darkwing_duck1]

Re: Oh, for Pete's Sake: They're actually filming the Potter 7 epilogu

God - I couldn't actually read that post.

"preview" is your friend.

We must have crossed posts...I don't know why it did that...I thought I'd fixed it already...oh well, fixed now.

Oh and edited to add: Are we REALLY going the "fourteen year old girl shipper conversation" route"?

Now would be a good time for that vomitting smilie.

Why? Because reason, logic, and good writing show us that Harry/Hermione is the correct pairing and that there is NO justification beyond author fiat for Harry/Ginny and Ron/Hermione?

Refute my points, if you can.