Is A New Star Trek TV Series Doomed Even More Because of Star Trek Xl?

[RAMA]

Re: Is A New Star Trek TV Series Doomed Even More Because of Star Trek

ST TV series is very possible, for one main reason, this cast and the creative team are "hot": they won't stay around more than 2-3 movies. CBS/Paramount will still see the franchise made money and will want more...therefore they will put together a totally new ST tv show that will make money for years on end without big cast changes...and it will be on within 5-6 yrs from now. JJ may produce, but it will be "executive produce", and a new team will work on it.

 

[RAMA]

Re: Is A New Star Trek TV Series Doomed Even More Because of Star Trek

And that delights you to no end, doesn't it?

LOL, persecution complex.

More like a comment on Dennis' usual snarky attitude towards TOS.



There's also the matter of merchandizing. TOS stuff still sells while NuTrek stuff languishes on the clearance racks.



Four spinoff series, ten movies, about a billion dollars a year for Paramount...yeah, what a failure. They should devote their time and energy towards a remake of "My Mother the Car."

Simple economics; it's cheaper for CBS to produce a show that they don't have to pay the other side of the house for.

Its also more profitable to produce a new show on, y'know, the universe that's actually popular at the moment and that the current audience actually gives a shit about currently. Simple economics.

Not when a significant portion of the money involved, instead of being devoted towards the actual production, is funnelled over to the rights holder. Same goes for any income derived from that production, it'd have to be split with the other side of the house, whereas if they don't have to pay anybody for the rights, they get to keep a larger share of the money. Besides, considering how fast JJ's little opus dropped off the standings once the next flavor of the month came along, I wouldn't put too much faith in what the current audience gives a shit about. It's a fact of life as long lived as the theatre itself, the general audience is extremely fickle.

Again, it's quite simple. CBS/Paramount owns TOS, TAS, TNG, DS9, Voyager, Enterprise, and the previous features outright. And those shows continue to have devoted followings.

Paramount Pictures owns NuTrek, and has yet to establish a following anywhere nearly as devoted as the old guard.

Why pay another farmer to milk one of their cows when you've already got a herd of your own that you can milk for free? And your herd has a more loyal clientele than the other guys?

Lots of revisionist history here...ST09 lasted forever compared to recent ST movies and most blockbusters. It had "legs" as Hollywood likes to say.

Your claim the new movie doesn't have the following is supposition, not based on any facts...the repeat viewers who went to see it multiple times were all established Trekkies! It graded highly with ALL film-goers, and a large percentage (40-50% on many polls) consider ST09 to be the best of the ST movies...in one big fell swoop! I don't know about you, but if a company came in with one product and immediately captured half the market, I'd be pretty impressed.

RAMA

 

[Pauln6]

Re: Is A New Star Trek TV Series Doomed Even More Because of Star Trek

ST TV series is very possible, for one main reason, this cast and the creative team are "hot": they won't stay around more than 2-3 movies. Paramount will still see the franchise made money and will want more...therefore they will put together a totally new ST tv show that will make money for years on end without big cast changes...and it will be on within 5-6 yrs from now. JJ may produce, but it will be "executive produce", and a new team will work on it.

I think this will increasingly become a problem for the actors who aren't Trek fans (Simon Pegg would probably pay THEM to appear). The shooting time is relatively short for movies like this so it will be the relative cost of the cast and effects vs expected returns that decides. They might re-cast (a la Don Cheadle in Iron Man 2) but recasting a recast role might be too much. I suspect strongly that Saldana's star is ascending so Uhura's death is movie 3 is a depressing possibility.

 

[RAMA]

Re: Is A New Star Trek TV Series Doomed Even More Because of Star Trek

ST TV series is very possible, for one main reason, this cast and the creative team are "hot": they won't stay around more than 2-3 movies. Paramount will still see the franchise made money and will want more...therefore they will put together a totally new ST tv show that will make money for years on end without big cast changes...and it will be on within 5-6 yrs from now. JJ may produce, but it will be "executive produce", and a new team will work on it.

I think this will increasingly become a problem for the actors who aren't Trek fans (Simon Pegg would probably pay THEM to appear). The shooting time is relatively short for movies like this so it will be the relative cost of the cast and effects vs expected returns that decides. They might re-cast (a la Don Cheadle in Iron Man 2) but recasting a recast role might be too much. I suspect strongly that Saldana's star is ascending so Uhura's death is movie 3 is a depressing possibility.

Im thinking a new ship, new cast, same universe.

 

[Hythlodeus]

Re: Is A New Star Trek TV Series Doomed Even More Because of Star Trek

I think this will increasingly become a problem for the actors who aren't Trek fans (Simon Pegg would probably pay THEM to appear)

which would be zoe saldana and chris pine? the rest is an assembly of fans as far as I recall

 

[Captain Robert April]

Re: Is A New Star Trek TV Series Doomed Even More Because of Star Trek

ST TV series is very possible, for one main reason, this cast and the creative team are "hot": they won't stay around more than 2-3 movies. CBS/Paramount will still see the franchise made money and will want more...therefore they will put together a totally new ST tv show that will make money for years on end without big cast changes...and it will be on within 5-6 yrs from now. JJ may produce, but it will be "executive produce", and a new team will work on it.

"Mr. Moovnes, the head of Paramount Pictures is on Line Two, and he sounds really angry about our new Star Trek series. Shall I put him through or call up someone from Legal first?"

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Re: Is A New Star Trek TV Series Doomed Even More Because of Star Trek

So, CBS proceeding with a Star Trek series based upon the movies, and thus giving Paramount an open invitation to sue the bejeezus out of 'em, is about as likely as Gene Roddenberry rising from the dead and pitching "Star Trek: The Next Next Generation"...

If they have the rights to make Star Trek at all, which they do, CBS could easily make a series that would appeal to the Abrams' movie fan without overtly being based on anything in the movie. What original material did Abrams bring to the movie, really? Blowing up Vulcan? I doubt that's copywritable. They can copy the movie aesthetics but the budget alone will stop that from being a point by point copy.

What CBS will never do is make a series that is not designed appeal to the Abrams' movie fan because that is the Star Trek audience now.

But all you have to do is look at CBS' fall lineup to see how unlikely it is that they are interested in any sci fi series of any sort at all.

 

[Captain Robert April]

Re: Is A New Star Trek TV Series Doomed Even More Because of Star Trek

The television audience and the movie-going audience aren't necessarily the same. Television audiences are interested in things like continuity and consistency (why do you think so many shows have ongoing story arcs nowadays?), pretty much everything JJTrek is against. And forty-odd years of backstory means a) plenty of springboards for future episodes, and b) a built-in audience that not only is gonna be there from Day One (Voyager beat out Monday Night Football when it premiered) but will, for the most part, continue to tune in, so long as the quality is maintained, and even then, it can be rather alarming just how forgiving some fans can be. A lot would depend on whether the show would run on CBS itself, the CW, or back to first run syndication, specifically, the budget and the quality of the writers.

Between that and the fact that CBS already owns pre-JJTrek outright, and there's an argument to be made that the next Star Trek series has a better chance if it's not based on JJTrek.

 

[RAMA]

Re: Is A New Star Trek TV Series Doomed Even More Because of Star Trek

The beautiful thing about those that supported anything with the name "Star Trek" including awful trash like Abrams Trek is they killed Star Trek! Killing what you love so a corporation can make money. There is probably a rule of acquisition covering that. Well there would've been!

Live action TV Trek is dead. Hope you enjoy 2 hours every 2-3 years as opposed to 75 hours of Trek every 3 years.

A few years before ST09 there were many predictions Trek on film was dead(or it was dead period). Then after Enterprise they said Trek on TV was dead...what happened? My prediction of more Trek on the big screen within 5 years came true...AND it was the critically best received, and financially most successful ST film of all time!

I will already tell you I am certain there will be a ST series within 6 years. Mark my words. ST will not let the new universe die without reaping the financial rewards after 3 films. ST as a whole has made $7 billion for the studio...I think we will see more Trek.

RAMA

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Re: Is A New Star Trek TV Series Doomed Even More Because of Star Trek

The television audience and the movie-going audience aren't necessarily the same.

After ENT crashed, there is no television audience, at least not large enough for CBS to bother with. (CBS just cancelled a bunch of decently performing shows in favor of launching more pilots in the fall - that just goes to show what a high hurdle it is to be a success on CBS.) ENT's audience wouldn't even be large enough for NBC to bother with.

If there's a new TV series, the assumption will be, they might get the few million ENT viewers who are obviously the hard core of Trek, but to get the audience up to worthwhile levels, they will have to bank on movie publicity.

Television audiences are interested in things like continuity and consistency

No, but they saw Trek XI and liked it and might watch more of the same in a TV series. Remember, people who watch movies also watch TV. The distinction between these audiences is artificial.

b) a built-in audience that not only is gonna be there from Day One (Voyager beat out Monday Night Football when it premiered)

Ancient history. ENT's fourth season audience is what remains of the devoted Trek fanbase.

Here's the show to watch: Terra Nova. If my hunch is right, Spielberg is going to try to re-create the visual splendor and adventure of Avatar on the small screen, of course scaled down to a TV budget. If he succeeds, he could have a unique property on TV, which people will watch because there's nothing else like it.

If that show takes off, it might set a trend of TV producers doing "light" versions of big blockbuster movies - not necessarily the same title, but targetted to appeal to the same audience, for the reasons the audience liked the movie.

 

[Captain Robert April]

Re: Is A New Star Trek TV Series Doomed Even More Because of Star Trek

Banking on the publicity (which has already faded to nothing by this point) doesn't necessarily mean basing this new series on the movie.

All they need is the name "Star Trek" in the title, which, as has been stated before, CBS already owns.

 

[Aike]

Re: Is A New Star Trek TV Series Doomed Even More Because of Star Trek

The television

Television audiences are interested in things like continuity and consistency

No, but they saw Trek XI and liked it and might watch more of the same in a TV series. Remember, people who watch movies also watch TV. The distinction between these audiences is artificial.

I don´t that is true. Ten years ago, yes, but not today. I watch lots of movies, but I don´t follow any episodic TV shows.
The only one I did watch each week in the last ten years was Enterprise back in 2002-2003. Back in the 90s, I probably spent five or six hours watching different shows each week. But not today.
Obviously, I have followed some seasons of reality shows like Idol and Survivor religiously.

But the Internet and reality soaps have changed my habits quite dramatically.

Sure, I may be an extreme.

Still, I think people born, let´s say, in the late 80s and later didn´t grow up with episodic shows like older people did, and they probably have quite different habits. They would rather gamble online, play WOW or watch a reality show than episodic drama. But they still watch lots of movies, too.

 

[Captain Robert April]

Re: Is A New Star Trek TV Series Doomed Even More Because of Star Trek

Just about every scripted show on tv today, dramas and sitcoms alike, have some sort of ongoing story arc, sometimes several.

ST09, on the other hand, can't even keep things straight in a single movie.

Networks also love bringing back hit shows from the past, to try and recapture past glories. Case in point: CBS is bringing back "Hawaii Five-O" and "The Defenders". There's noises about bringing back "Charlie's Angels" to tv. The simple existence of TNG should be proof enough of the concept, which was quickly followed by several other attempts at bringing back old shows, like "Mission: Impossible", "The Twilight Zone", "The Outer Limits", hell, even "Burke's Law" got another season on CBS.

If anything, there's a much stronger case, from the point of view of the network exec, to base any new Star Trek series on the TOS continuity than a flash-in-the-pan movie.

 

[Devon]

Re: Is A New Star Trek TV Series Doomed Even More Because of Star Trek

If anything, there's a much stronger case, from the point of view of the network exec, to base any new Star Trek series on the TOS continuity than a flash-in-the-pan movie.

Not from a ratings or financial point of view. Case dismissed.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Re: Is A New Star Trek TV Series Doomed Even More Because of Star Trek

The television
No, but they saw Trek XI and liked it and might watch more of the same in a TV series. Remember, people who watch movies also watch TV. The distinction between these audiences is artificial.

I don´t that is true. Ten years ago, yes, but not today. I watch lots of movies, but I don´t follow any episodic TV shows.
The only one I did watch each week in the last ten years was Enterprise back in 2002-2003. Back in the 90s, I probably spent five or six hours watching different shows each week. But not today.
Obviously, I have followed some seasons of reality shows like Idol and Survivor religiously.

But the Internet and reality soaps have changed my habits quite dramatically.

Sure, I may be an extreme.

Still, I think people born, let´s say, in the late 80s and later didn´t grow up with episodic shows like older people did, and they probably have quite different habits. They would rather gamble online, play WOW or watch a reality show than episodic drama. But they still watch lots of movies, too.

TV watching has not declined - it's actually increased. The broadcast networks have lost a lot of viewers to cable, which may give people the impression that TV viewing has been declining. I dunno about movie viewing, but I haven't seen any data to indicate it's decreased. It's moved from theaters to home viewing.

So you have a huge population of TV viewers and a huge population of movie viewers. There's gotta be a big overlap between the two. I don't see any reason to treat them as separate populations.

Just about every scripted show on tv today, dramas and sitcoms alike, have some sort of ongoing story arc, sometimes several.

ST09, on the other hand, can't even keep things straight in a single movie.

Having just seen the Lost finale, I can attest that scriped arc-based TV also cannot keep things straight. Perfect match there!

If anything, there's a much stronger case, from the point of view of the network exec, to base any new Star Trek series on the TOS continuity than a flash-in-the-pan movie.

Except that nobody in Hollywood cares about the old TOS continuity because it hasn't made them countless millions lately. I wouldn't bank much on them even realizing there are two separate continuities as opposed to, say, Abrams having re-written Trek permanently.

All they would care about is, will Trek on TV make countless millions like that Trek movie just did? Convince them that the old TOS continuity will do that and you might get somewhere, but I have no idea how that argument could be made.

Networks also love bringing back hit shows from the past, to try and recapture past glories. Case in point: CBS is bringing back "Hawaii Five-O" and "The Defenders". There's noises about bringing back "Charlie's Angels" to tv. The simple existence of TNG should be proof enough of the concept, which was quickly followed by several other attempts at bringing back old shows, like "Mission: Impossible", "The Twilight Zone", "The Outer Limits", hell, even "Burke's Law" got another season on CBS.

Hollywood certainly does love to resurrect old shows. That's a big part of the reason Trek XI got made - it's resurrecting an old show. Just because you don't think it's a worthy successor to TOS doesn't mean anything to the Hollywood bean counters. To them, it's a successful resurrection of TOS by the only definition that matters to them: it made money.

And when the new Hawaii Five-O debuts, there will probably be fans of that show that will scream to the high heavens what a travesty it is. That will have no bearing whatsoever on its success and their complaints will be just as irrelevant as yours.

 

[PlainSimpleJoel]

Re: Is A New Star Trek TV Series Doomed Even More Because of Star Trek

Im thinking a new ship, new cast, same universe.

That sounds like the best idea. Old trek (IMO) wouldn't be able to get more viewers than a Star Trek series set in the alternative univerise.

When? Sometime after the third movie is released.

Here's the show to watch: Terra Nova. If my hunch is right, Spielberg is going to try to re-create the visual splendor and adventure of Avatar on the small screen, of course scaled down to a TV budget. If he succeeds, he could have a unique property on TV, which people will watch because there's nothing else like it.

I'm hoping it is a success.

 

[I am not Spock]

Re: Is A New Star Trek TV Series Doomed Even More Because of Star Trek

The studio bean counters don't think in terms of continuity. They don't think 'is this in the Prime or Nu Universe?' They think 'will it make me millions of dollars?' That's all there really is to it.

 

[Tino]

Re: Is A New Star Trek TV Series Doomed Even More Because of Star Trek

CBS network does not currently seem totally optimistic about a new Star Trek TV Series at this time (as far as we know).

Mmh. If they feel they can make money out of it, I'm pretty sure they will make a new series.
Maybe they're contracted to wait up until the third movie comes out. If I was Abrams, I'd tell them so. Let the movies work on their own, refreshen the appetite for Star Trek. After the third movie, a new series could emerge.

Plus, it doesn't look good that they canceled Enterprise mid season even though the fans where willing to give them a huge chunk of money.

1,5 million dollars isn't huge ... it'll give you one or two TV episodes.

Star Trek Xl is based in an alternate time line that is supposed to co-exist alongside the Prime Time Line within a Temporal Multi-verse. This put's any new creative team (working on a New TV Series) into a bit of a conundrum.

Why? Simply make a series in the alternative timeline. If Kelvin wasn't destroyed, it would make a great series IMO.

24th Century time line in the Abrams-verse [...] 24 Century show in the Prime Time Line [...] another prequel series [...] Mirror Universe series [...] unknown new parallel universe [...] time travel series

Probably no. Just a series in the actual timeline, the Abramsverse. And if they don't use the Enterprise, they can pretty much do what they want.

I mean, personally, the only TV Series concept I can see maybe working is a Future Trek series that would use the Gateway technology integrated into a Starship where it eventually gets lost in traveling to different dimensions (like in Sliders).

You're pretty deep into the Star Trek universe ... why not another starship series? This time though, interesting characters and storylines would be appreciated. I love Star Trek to death but VOY and ENT lacked good stories and good characters (except for a few episodes).

 

[shapeshifter]

Re: Is A New Star Trek TV Series Doomed Even More Because of Star Trek

Trek was once before ruined by over-saturation, I doubt anyone important wants to go down that road again and as much as I'd love to have a ton of new Trek to immerse myself in, I think sticking to a film every few years is the right thing to do.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Re: Is A New Star Trek TV Series Doomed Even More Because of Star Trek

The studio bean counters don't think in terms of continuity. They don't think 'is this in the Prime or Nu Universe?' They think 'will it make me millions of dollars?' That's all there really is to it.

Yeah - but they would only think Star Trek will make them millions of dollars if their golden boy, JJ Abrams, blesses it (at the very least). And why should he bless anything that ignores his version of Trek?

At best, we could get a universe-neutral Trek, which could fit into either continuity. Then we'd tie ourselves in knots trying to figure out which continuity it belonged to, but the general audience wouldn't have the slightest clue this was even an issue. As long as it gave them what they liked in Trek XI, they'd be happy.

If they feel they can make money out of it, I'm pretty sure they will make a new series.

But we're right back to the original problem: of all the networks, CBS is the least likely to think Trek can do anything for them. CBS is the only network without a single sci fi show in its lineup, currently or launching next season.

If it doesn't think it needs sci fi, not even an "accessible" approach with superhero cops, then why should it jump into space opera, which even the Sci Fi channel is afraid to do?