Who gets Keiko?
If chief Miles O'brien wasn't married
- Thread starter Edinburgh
- Start date
Well speaking for myself, it's not that I'm defending someone being straight or gay, for me, it's like really liking the Mona Lisa and being a big fan of it, but then turning around and saying "Gee, she should have eyebrows. What if her hair wasn't so straight? She should have a more flashier outfit.... the background is a tad bland."
I don't personally go beyond speculation on the what-ifs of the characters on any show or movie, because the show/movie, the characters, the stories, etc. are all one collective component of the "Art" the crew, actors and creators all worked hard on in delivering to us in which we all appreciate and love..... to go beyond that, to me, sounds unappreciative.
I'm not saying this is how you should view things, but speaking for myself, I can't speculate beyond what the artist provided, because it is their own work, their own message, their own vision of the world they wish to bring us into, not mine.
Myself, I'm a graphic designer, photographer, photo editor, animator, and a pile of other things. Much of what I create is based on what makes sense in my own head / my own interpretations of the world around me..... people can accept or reject my work, they can like it or hate it.... but to go around suggesting something I created be changed or modified.... or just out-right modifying it themselves because they think they're more right is an insult.... if they think they can do better, then they can make their own artwork and deal with others picking it apart and telling them how they should make it.
I know this is all speculation and for some like yourself, just harmless fun.... but for me, it's a step in the wrong direction..... like saying Stairway to Heaven by Led Zep should have been done this way or that, or what if they added a full orchestra in the background, or was sung by someone else.
... if that makes any sense.
It does makes sense in a way...and as I wrote before I also agree, that a great male- friendship can be just that...a great male-friendship and I am curious, what the reason is that makes male-slash so polular? Is it more females or males who like it I wonder or both?
Well but getting back to the point, I do see what you mean with respecting the work of others and such, however I would also find it a pitty, when no one would play around with what those authors did...its respect also, because as it seems the authors created something, that people like to think about, fantasize about, dream about, sometimes maybe in strange ways, but oh well... isn´t it somehing to take credit in, when one created something, that stays in peoples minds and hearts and lets their fantasy be alife? Therefore I don´t think "What if..." questions should be taken as offends.
"What if.." Questions and imagening things, experimanting and being curious about possibilities in general is human nature.
TerokNor
P.S. Ah I feel tortured! Now I cannot get this silly song from that silly Traumschiff Surprize Parody Movie, where they all play gay, out of my head.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qucFNMDNEOA&feature=related
Suffer with me!
Well but getting back to the point, I do see what you mean with respecting the work of others and such, however I would also find it a pitty, when no one would play around with what those authors did...its respect also, because as it seems the authors created something, that people like to think about, fantasize about, dream about, sometimes maybe in strange ways, but oh well... isn´t it somehing to take credit in, when one created something, that stays in peoples minds and hearts and lets their fantasy be alife? Therefore I don´t think "What if..." questions should be taken as offends.
"What if.." Questions and imagening things, experimanting and being curious about possibilities in general is human nature.
TerokNor
P.S. Ah I feel tortured! Now I cannot get this silly song from that silly Traumschiff Surprize Parody Movie, where they all play gay, out of my head.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qucFNMDNEOA&feature=related
Suffer with me!
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I never got the impression O'Brien was homosexual. While the argument can be made (but never truly proven) for Garak, there just isn't grounds for it with O'Brien unless you assume that some of his comments made while venting frustration about Keiko are literal. And I don't think they are.
I just got the impression that he was very frustrated about being in a bad marriage. I think that if he had married a more easygoing woman, someone a little more matched to his personality, there wouldn't be this "question" (such as it is) about O'Brien in the slightest.
I just got the impression that he was very frustrated about being in a bad marriage. I think that if he had married a more easygoing woman, someone a little more matched to his personality, there wouldn't be this "question" (such as it is) about O'Brien in the slightest.
I think maybe in the early TNG years they had a chance (and even then I think there were warning signs), but no, I do not believe the O'Briens had a healthy marriage on DS9.
I also had the impression that their marriage was troubled.
Some of that may have come from being on DS9, a place that Keiko was never too enthusiastic about.
I did always wonder if the time she spent away was some sort of trial seperation. I know it was explained onscreen as a botany assignment on Bajor (I think) this is just my little pet theory.
Some of that may have come from being on DS9, a place that Keiko was never too enthusiastic about.
I did always wonder if the time she spent away was some sort of trial seperation. I know it was explained onscreen as a botany assignment on Bajor (I think) this is just my little pet theory.
That may well be possible...wouldn't surprise me.
Hmm, well maybe it does depends a bit of what kind of marriages youve seen? I mean they do have some problems, but generaly they seem to love each other. And there is no physical or emotional abuse. They allow each other freedoms, they have a sexuel life...
Well ok, maybe the decision to return to earth was not truly O´Briens, but more his wifes decision, still dont think neither of them is really unhappy...at least not what I would understand under unhappy.
TerokNor
Well ok, maybe the decision to return to earth was not truly O´Briens, but more his wifes decision, still dont think neither of them is really unhappy...at least not what I would understand under unhappy.
TerokNor
At first going through the DS9 series, I thought there was problems in their marriage, in that it seemed like Keiko always had something to bitch about or rag on Miles over one thing or another, that she wanted to do this thing or do that thing because she wasn't happy, and O'Brien would heed her wishes and bend over backwards for her, only to get more complaints and moaning on her part..... yet when he wanted something, it was like pulling teeth, they had to fight, almost separate/divorce, then finally she'd do the one simple thing he wanted her to do.
But then after a while I learned to drop my bias against her and see her concerns as being deeper then originally thought.
I think the one episode that really showed how united they were and how much they loved each other was "Time's Orphan"
But then after a while I learned to drop my bias against her and see her concerns as being deeper then originally thought.
I think the one episode that really showed how united they were and how much they loved each other was "Time's Orphan"
The constant sniping and arguing, and the level of frustration O'Brien seemed to have with the marriage was one problem--but to me the biggest problem was that their goals in life and how they wanted to raise their family fundamentally did not match. I am of the belief that Keiko was never suited to be a military wife. That's not an attack on her character--it just means she should have been with someone else living a different kind of life.
I believe I have a more qualified perspective on this than some in that I grew up in a military family. And excuse me for being blunt, but unless both in the couple have military careers (and will therefore generally be stationed together), the spouse of a military person needs to realize that the military member of the couple has sworn an oath to protect and defend and that there can be no compromises when it comes to where you are stationed. You go where your orders are--period. And if that's not the life you want, you shouldn't marry someone who is in the military.
(And yes--if the military person in the couple is the woman, the husband should honor his wife's oath to serve and do what it takes to support her, even if that means moving wherever she moves and putting his career interests second.)
Keiko was not willing to do this--she should have recognized a tough assignment could have come at any time BEFORE she got married to O'Brien. She was fundamentally unprepared for and unaccepting of what the military lifestyle really is. And like I said, had it been Keiko who was serving and Miles who was a civilian, I would've expected Miles to return the favor.
Coming from a half military family (for a time) myself, where one part gave up the military, which might have been one thing, that lead to all the "Damar-like-troubles" afterwards I have to, even somewhat reculantly, agree with you on that point, thought I still don´t see their marriage as that troubled. Could have been a lot worse.
TerokNor
afterwards I have to, even somewhat reculantly, agree with you on that point, thought I still don´t see their marriage as that troubled. Could have been a lot worse.TerokNor
Most of the time O'Brien and Bashir seemed like just friends but there were a few moments. The montage at the end of the series had to be their gayest moment. Although Star Trek didn't have any openly gay characters it did have a lot of subtext.
Rek--I think on occasion they didn't know what to do because they felt like they would be perceived as something they were not. That doesn't necessarily mean they were offended by homosexuality...but by the idea of a false rumor starting up. It is the falseness of the rumor that would be offensive, not to mention the fact it would be hurtful to Keiko and Molly since it would imply O'Brien loved someone other than his wife, and that Bashir was a homewrecker.
Nooo
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