Where did Spock go?

[FlapJoy]

What the hell do you expect Nimoy to remember continuity wise after more than forty years? He's an actor, not a writer or continuity consultant. He just gets paid to read the lines.

Because,
A: He's not just an actor paid to say lines. He is an actor who studies the material, puts himself in the character as written and even contributes based on his vast knowledge of his character. He becomes that character and gives to us his peformance, because we want him to. Is he paid? yes... we all are that have a job. And paid well because, as has been debated, not just anyone can play these roles. He is an asset to Star Trek, more than most. And paid for a service, no different than anyone else. And he has earned his paycheck, goddamn it. The minute you start downgrading what the actors of this series, or any series, contribute to these shows is the minute you should just stop watching these shows. It is the actors that give us everything, they are the delivery system. This is commercial entertainment and asks nothing more of you, certainly less than you ask of it. Leonard Nimoy is a smart man, he's quite conscience of his Trek material and respects his character. He respects the franchise, and his role in it, far more than you ever will... and that's just too bad for you.

B: Nerd bots constantly ask this man all these stupid little questions that you ask here. And he does his best to answer them, so what makes you think he's forgotten much of anything from 40 years of Star Trek when he's reminded every day?

Star Trek isn't about explaining every little inconsequential detail to you while it pats you on the head, like you're a dumb little baby... and it never will be. I assume you're smarter than that, so grow up. Because it says to me that you've lost the ability to find enjoyment in a product created to do exactly that, that's terrible, and I'm sorry. But you ask too much of the concept, honestly.

Evidence is offered up to illustrate the point, but all we get from the other side is, "No, it isn't. No, it isn't. No, it isn't. No, it isn't. No, it isn't. No, it isn't..."

You ask why it bothers me? I can ask the same, why does what I conclude bother you? If you liked the film then what do you care one way or another?

Then why do you bother to post? You're going to find that people differ with your opinion and may never share your concerns, if that's an issue with you, perhaps keep these concerns to yourself. Healthy debate and playful spectulation is one thing, but no one here answers to you. It's no ones responsibility to find the answers you seek, to agree with your reasoning, to commiserate, or to blindly follow along on your quest to waste a shit load of time asking.

When I'm absolutely convinced of something there are no limits to my stubbornness.

Then I guess yer gonna have to suck your own dick, cuz no one here's gonna suck it for ya.

 

[Warped9]

Clearly they didn't and now it's onscreen and they're stuck with it.

They're not "stuck" with anything. The movie worked fine. The next movie won't suffer in any way, shape or form for it. Both it and the people who make it will be unaffected, unaware, and unconcerned. From what can be seen here, it would appear if anyone is "stuck" with something, it is you.

May work fine for you, but it's total nonsense to me. And that's why I dismiss it as nothing connected to TOS whatsoever.

Then I guess yer gonna have to suck your own dick, cuz no one here's gonna suck it for ya.

Well we can see where your head is at.

 

[Shazam!]

Spock has acted to preserve worlds with which he had far less connection than an alternate universe Vulcan.

Worlds in his universe.

Besides, who's to say that he didn't go off looking for a way to undo it all and just didn't tell anyone?

 

[Kelso]

Evidence is offered up to illustrate the point, but all we get from the other side is, "No, it isn't. No, it isn't. No, it isn't. No, it isn't. No, it isn't. No, it isn't..."

Oh, c'mon... the "evidence" is nonsense that has been repeatedly refuted.

You're just having a laugh, aren't you? Winding up the gushers. I can admit that you had be going for awhile.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

It's not his universe at that point, so it's not up to him.

This seems to be a moot point to me.

Spock has acted to preserve worlds with which he had far less connection than an alternate universe Vulcan.

And in any case it would still be genocide.

So, after the movie ends, he'll do his best to time travel and save Vulcan. (Does he know how to time travel in this universe? Star Trek folks have learned how to time travel before and then acted like they forgot.)

Or maybe he decides he can do more good alerting Starfleet to the Doomsday Machine which even at that very moment, is munching up planets and probably killing a lot more people than died on Vulcan, and helping them to extrapolate its path based on where he remembers it when the Enterprise encountered it, so that they can destroy it before it can gobble up more worlds. Given the similarity of this universe to Spock's original one, and the lifetime of knowledge he has, there are any number of ways he could save billions of lives, and maybe futzing around with time travel isn't the best use of his time.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

I haven't seen the movie and don't ever intend to. But based upon what I have read about it I would like to offer another point of contention.

Would the Spock who went back in time in COTEOF to prevent McCoy from changing the past, and who insisted that Capt. Christopher had to be returned in TIY to preserve the future; be so willing to write off the destruction of Vulcan and all the inhabitants, when he knew that this was not as history should proceed?

I submit that the answer is he would not. Thus in the history that he comes from, there must be no conflict, and to his knowledge Vulcan was destroyed. If it were otherwise, then Spock, through inaction, would be condoning genocide.

I'm sorry but the Spock of TOS would not do that.

You're right, the TOS Spock wouldn't do that because he was a younger man who had not yet had the years of experience of his older self. People change as they get older. Their perceptions change. New truths present themselves. But Spock Prime, having lived a long life and having had time to contemplate that life, has come to different conclusions than the person he once was.

Which of us is ever the same person we were 10 years ago? Imagine how much more different a person could be after 100 or so years of life. He or she wouldn't see eye-to-eye with their younger selves. Then again, which of us do?

Nevertheless, Spock Prime was played by Nimoy as being the same person as the version he played in TOS-TNG, but someone who has grown comfortable with himself. His performance is informed by that choice and it shows on screen.

Also, by not "putting things right that once went wrong", the movie may say something more than the episodes where the timeline was "restored."

Yes, Vulcan is gone. But things happen and we must live with them. There is no going back and undoing the tragedies of our lives, our era. We must move forward and survive them. In doing so, we strive for a better tomorrow.

Hmm...maybe there was a bit of optimistic Roddenberry-ism in the movie after all.

 

[Joker]

May work fine for you, but it's total nonsense to me.

What is nonsense here is your inability to deal with a fucking movie that doesn't go in the exact direction that you want it to, and the need to contrive your own "real" version to satisfy yourself.

Stuff like this is why Trek fans are ridiculed. Normal person sees shit movie... normal person forgets it and gets on with life. Trekkie sees new Trek movie and doesn't like it... Trekkie denies its existence in the fake world and justifies it with fake reasons to preserve the integrity of the fake world and the fake people therein.

Galaxy Quest suddenly makes sense.

 

[Warped9]

May work fine for you, but it's total nonsense to me.

What is nonsense here is your inability to deal with a fucking movie that doesn't go in the exact direction that you want it to, and the need to contrive your own "real" version to satisfy yourself.

I don't have to contrive anything. Abrams and his writers did it all simply by how they chose to write the film.

You're no different than someone who maintains he sees four lights when anyone with a clear mind sees only three are there.

 

[Joker]

Abrams and his writers had a film to write. They wrote a film.

What's your excuse?

 

[F. King Daniel]

Warped9, people really don't look that different after five years. You weren't expecting Chris Pine to suddenly metamorphize into William Shatner, circa 1965, on his 30th birthday, were you?

Up next: "It's an alternate universe because Kirk didn't use weird, halting sentences."

 

[StarryEyed]

Fans have come up with excuses for the continuity glitches in STXI just as they did decades ago with TOS, TMP, TNG and the rest.

Indeed. But have you heard the phrase, "The straw that broke the camel's back?"

Warped9 definitely has a weak back here. But I'm the same age he is (5-27-59). I had no problem with creative excuses all the way through DS9. Voyager started me on some serious back pain that took some (figurative) therapy to get through. The vertebrae finally gave out at the end of season 2 of Enterprise. There was hope for recovery but Star Trek XI was the equivalent of a light saber through the spine. There is no way I am willing to go there.

Temis is glad Star Trek isn't dead? I have news for her: It's undead! We didn't get Star Trek back. We got a walking, rotting corpse in disguise. I'd rather put the corpse to rest and cherish and celebrate all the wonderful stuff it gave us rather than have its name soiled by this filthy succubus.

 

[Duncan MacLeod]

Worlds in his universe.

Besides, who's to say that he didn't go off looking for a way to undo it all and just didn't tell anyone?

What makes you think that would matter enough that he would be able to turn his back on that many lives being exterminated?

As for a way prevent it, the simplest would be to use the warp speed breakaway factor to take Enterprise back to the point in time when Nero emerges in the past and blow him to hell with a spread of 24th century quantum torpedoes. Which I'm reasonably sure Spock should be able to fabricate.

 

[Joker]

Temis is glad Star Trek isn't dead? I have news for her: It's undead! We didn't get Star Trek back. We got a walking, rotting corpse in disguise. I'd rather put the corpse to rest and cherish and celebrate all the wonderful stuff it gave us rather than have its name soiled by this filthy succubus.

We need another reality check, I think.

Star Trek is whatever the writers make it. Not you, not I, not the Warped fellow in the corner... it's fiction. It changes.

That's why we have utter shit like Spock's Brain, Catspaw and the rest of the crap episodes in with the supposedly superior Trek produced in the years where it was apparently "pure". Star Trek has never been anything more than pretty good entertainment for those reasons. A lot of it is dumb as fuck. Some of it was clever. Spock changed as it went on. All the characters did. The new movie is the latest revision of something that's been revised countless times already.

Don't like it? Then dump on it, move along and find something else that you do like. Don't sit and gratify yourself with a fucking fantasy that Real Spock is still out there somewhere, and that the new movie had an imposter. If you need to hear that shit, you have issues.

 

[F. King Daniel]

I said this on the other thread, but here goes: Spock doesn't have the right to undo 25 years of everyone's lives. It would effectively be the murder of Kirk and co, replacing them with their TOS versions.

Even if he somehow went back and stopped the Nerada in 2233 (which they barely managed in 2258, and another attempt could lead to utter disaster), he may save Vulcan, but at the expense of Romulus and Remus who are fated to die a firey death in the original timeline. With the foreknowledge of events the STXI people have, those deaths (which likely exceed the six billion Vulcans) may well be avoided in alternate 2387.

Would Vulcans want their world saved at the expense of two others? Even those of their enemies? I think not.

 

[StarryEyed]

Temis is glad Star Trek isn't dead? I have news for her: It's undead! We didn't get Star Trek back. We got a walking, rotting corpse in disguise. I'd rather put the corpse to rest and cherish and celebrate all the wonderful stuff it gave us rather than have its name soiled by this filthy succubus.

We need another reality check, I think.

Don't sit and gratify yourself with a fucking fantasy that Real Spock is still out there somewhere, and that the new movie had an imposter.

You're confusing me with Waped9. I don't worry about who the "Spock" character in Star Trek XI was. I simply don't accept the movie as Star Trek. As for a "fucking fantasy that real Spock is out there," are you nuts? NONE of it is real, obviously. Therefor, we are all free to have our own Star Trek universe, including what we we like and discarding what we don't like. If you see differently than it is you who have issues.

On the practical side, us Galaxy Quest nerds have filled the pockets of CBS (or whoever owns Star Trek now) and has made the continued production of these movies possible. I'm one of those losers who has most of Trek on DVD (except for Enterprise and this latest abortion) but I'll not be spending another cent on this franchise as long as they go in this direction. I'll be voting with my wallet.

 

[Joker]

Temis is glad Star Trek isn't dead? I have news for her: It's undead! We didn't get Star Trek back. We got a walking, rotting corpse in disguise. I'd rather put the corpse to rest and cherish and celebrate all the wonderful stuff it gave us rather than have its name soiled by this filthy succubus.

We need another reality check, I think.

Don't sit and gratify yourself with a fucking fantasy that Real Spock is still out there somewhere, and that the new movie had an imposter.

You're confusing me with Waped9. I don't worry about who the "Spock" character in Star Trek XI was. I simply don't accept the movie as Star Trek. As for a "fucking fantasy that real Spock is out there," are you nuts? NONE of it is real, obviously. Therefor, we are all free to have our own Star Trek universe, including what we we like and discarding what we don't like. If you see differently than it is you who have issues.

On the practical side, us Galaxy Quest nerds have filled the pockets of CBS (or whoever owns Star Trek now) and has made the continued production of these movies possible. I'm one of those losers who has most of Trek on DVD (except for Enterprise and this latest abortion) but I'll not be spending another cent on this franchise as long as they go in this direction. I'll be voting with my wallet.

Most of that wasn't directed at you, as you observed.

No, I don't have issues... I understand that Star Trek is a franchise that will go wherever the hell its writers take it, without my consent. If I don't like it, I'll call it "crap" and go fishing.

Abrams' job right now is to produce Star Trek. He's doing that. Others have done, no doubt others will do. We've been here before, and we'll be here again. Abrams decided to write Spock into the movie as a superficial bridge from the old stuff to the new stuff. That was nice. Spock can have a half-brother, inner-eyelids, mind-control, telepathy, super-strength, pon farr, sensitivity to kryptonite and a dozen other contrived attributes that had never been seen before and were never seen again.

Now, Spock was in the new movie too. What a guy. He goes everywhere.

Of all the incredible things he's done, including dying and being resurrected, mind-melding with V'Ger's electrical outlet, and surviving having his brain removed while being remote-controlled by a small box with 8 buttons, this one is pretty tame by comparison.

There really is nothing to see here except pitiful fanboy desperation and frustration.

 

[Warped9]

I started a discussion and laid out my reasoning that my conclusion is founded on. All that came back repeatedly was, "No, you're wrong. That's not what they meant." Well anyone can scream the sky is green, but a simple look out the window verifies that it's actually blue. But you can keep believing it's green by choosing not to look out the window, but the sky remains blue no matter what you ignore and want to believe.

My back started to give way during TNG. That's when my eyes really started to open. From there I started seeing things differently and all the way back to the '80s films. Then DS9 and VOY and finally ENT make it so I can't stand it anymore.

ST09 is the inevitable result of how Trek has evolved over the past fifteen to twenty years.

 

[StarryEyed]

Of all the incredible things he's done, including dying and being resurrected, mind-melding with V'Ger's electrical outlet, and surviving having his brain removed while being remote-controlled by a small box with 8 buttons, this one is pretty tame by comparison.

Yeah, they have put Spock through some shit, haven't they?

I would argue though that the Star Trek saga as a whole is at an all-time low. It would have been better if they had declared nuTrek a clean reboot as they did with the Bond franchise. I still wouldn't have contributed a cent to it because I hate it but I wouldn't feel as if they had violated the original Star Trek canon by sucking a piece of it like a leech in order to satisfy their craving for legitimacy.

 

[Warped9]

I would argue though that the Star Trek saga as a whole is at an all-time low. It would have been better if they had declared nuTrek a clean reboot as they did with the Bond franchise. I still wouldn't have contributed a cent to it because I hate it but I wouldn't feel as if they had violated the original Star Trek canon by sucking a piece of it like a leech in order to satisfy their craving for legitimacy.

True.

 

[xortex]

Are you saying an alternate Spock changed history to insure that his existence in the future is secure and becomes prevelant and supercedes the old Spock's position and time line? Didn't read rest of post yet. The new alternate spock is a sellout.

I just wanted to quote myself 'cause I'm not spending another dime on Star Trek either.