5x06 The Vampires of Venice (Grading/Discussion) SPOILERS!!

[Starkers]

I thought it was very good, not stand out brilliant but a lot better than Victory which has been the only clunker so far really.

Love the teaser, the Doctor popping out of the cake was just fantastic, and I loved him just coming right out with Amy kissing him, this guy really is an alien isn't he!

The story was fluff, but well put togeather fluff, and not every episode can be arc heavy or Blink. Frankly if we had a season of 13 episodes that were just as good as this, I'd still be very happy with Who.

Did take a little while to get going, and I couldn't help thinking that this was another episode that might have been better served with the time to set the scene in a way the classic series could do so well, but it settled down and I thought the pacing was excellent. The vampires were great and even though I'd sen it before I did really like the scene with the 1st Doctor's library card.

I thought Rory was pretty crappy to begin with, but he seemed to grow as the episode went along, and when Amy kissed him it felt real, felt like she was remembering what it was she loved about him. (he's brave, loyal, not stupid, seems caring...frankly on the face of it he's a better boyfriend than Mickey apeared to be the first few times we met him)

Loved the showdown with the Doctor because Rory didn't say it looks bigger on the inside as well.

Yeah the weather system thing was really easy to turn off...I mean all the Doctor had to do was clamber up the side of a building in the rain without climning gear...real simple that!

Next week's looks a lot more interesting than I was expecting it to be, and seems to feature the Doctor more...although maybe they've just put most of his scenes in the trailer?

 

[Zaku]

Ehmmmm....

A black boat maker..? In Venice..? in 1580...?

 

[cheeseyfatmonkey]

Ehmmmm....

A black boat maker..? In Venice..? in 1580...?

A black general in the Venetian army..? In Venice..? in 1603..?

 

[O'Dib]

Yeah I don't care, but wouldn't Moors technically look more North African?

 

[cheeseyfatmonkey]

Yeah I don't care, but wouldn't Moors technically look more North African?

In the 16th/17th century 'Moors' was pretty much used in English to refer to someone with dark skin. Othello refers to himself as 'black' twice in the text but this isn't considered good enough evidence and Elizabethans considered anyone not white as black at the time.

Anyway my point is that it is entirely plausible to have a black boat maker in Venice at that time. The Venetians were an extremely powerful sea faring nation at who would have definitely been trading with North and West African nations.

 

[Zaku]

Ehmmmm....

A black boat maker..? In Venice..? in 1580...?

A black general in the Venetian army..? In Venice..? in 1603..?

Sorry for my terrible english (I'm Italian).

Black people at that time was divided into two categories: there were dignitaries, princes or ambassadors and there was some (rare) slave exhibited as a curiosity.

There has never been a large population in northern Italy of black people at that time. At most, there were the Moors in the Iberian peninsula, but that's another story.

I really can not imagine how a black person could be a boat maker in Venice, a job usually passed on to family members.

 

[Australis]

Could be wrong, but I think the Venetians had avery cosmopolitan empire that would have encouraged tradesmen from all its ports.

 

[cheeseyfatmonkey]

Ehmmmm....

A black boat maker..? In Venice..? in 1580...?

A black general in the Venetian army..? In Venice..? in 1603..?

Sorry for my terrible english (I'm Italian).

Black people at that time was divided into two categories: there were dignitaries, princes or ambassadors and there was some (rare) slave exhibited as a curiosity.

There has never been a large population in northern Italy of black people at that time. At most, there were the Moors in the Iberian peninsula, but that's another story.

I really can not imagine how a black person could be a boat maker in Venice, a job usually passed on to family members.

On the point of there not being a large population of black people at the time there was only 2 people in the episode which doesn't contradict that.

On your second point...fair enough.

Please accept my apologies, by the way, I think I'm guilty of making an assumption of your intentions from your previous post.

 

[Shazam!]

Ehmmmm....

A black boat maker..? In Venice..? in 1580...?

A black general in the Venetian army..? In Venice..? in 1603..?

Me? Here? The 13th Duke of Wybourne? At a french maids finishing school?

 

[cheeseyfatmonkey]

Ehmmmm....

A black boat maker..? In Venice..? in 1580...?

A black general in the Venetian army..? In Venice..? in 1603..?

Me? Here? The 13th Duke of Wybourne? At a french maids finishing school?

Has no one thought of the consequences?...Bingo!

 

[Lonemagpie]

I just put vamps of Venice on for Lesley, who missed it last night, and noticed that the phone in Amy's bedroom is exactly the same model of phone as we have on the living room table...

So, how long before Moff is accused of being an evil racist racefail type cos the cast aren't all black heroes? I've noticed the rumblings beginning just because the black characters in the last two episodes died, overlooking the fact that *all* the guest characters died and that having a rich boat-builder of colour in the setting actually looks to me more like some kind of affirmative action to boost the racial variety...

But, hey, I said that about WoM, and nobody listened, because everybody loves a bandwagon to jump on, especially if it's about slagging somebody off for what you can make out is a socio-political reason, so you can look like a mover and a shaker...

 

[Zaku]

Could be wrong, but I think the Venetians had avery cosmopolitan empire that would have encouraged tradesmen from all its ports.

The Venetians at the time were very jealous of their secrets on the manufacture of ships. The workers who work in Venetian Arsenal were chosen especially among the city's craftsmen.

It must be a truly bizarre story how a black man become craftsman in Venice in 1580

I just can not understand why the authors of the episode felt the need to include a black character (only to kill him!).

 

[Zaku]

Please accept my apologies, by the way, I think I'm guilty of making an assumption of your intentions from your previous post.

No need to apologize. I could explain a little better what I meant by my statement.

 

[O'Dib]

Maybe the plague killed off most of the boatmakers, and, seeing as how the vampire lady closed off the city, a black boatmaker who happened to be passing through was their best bet. That's as good an explanation as any. Otherwise, you might as well complain about how Venice of the period had no man eating fish in the canal.

 

[cheeseyfatmonkey]

I just put vamps of Venice on for Lesley, who missed it last night, and noticed that the phone in Amy's bedroom is exactly the same model of phone as we have on the living room table...

So, how long before Moff is accused of being an evil racist racefail type cos the cast aren't all black heroes? I've noticed the rumblings beginning just because the black characters in the last two episodes died, overlooking the fact that *all* the guest characters died and that having a rich boat-builder of colour in the setting actually looks to me more like some kind of affirmative action to boost the racial variety...

But, hey, I said that about WoM, and nobody listened, because everybody loves a bandwagon to jump on, especially if it's about slagging somebody off for what you can make out is a socio-political reason, so you can look like a mover and a shaker...

Really? I haven't seen these rumblings beginning here or over on Gallifrey Base. Have you got any links to that?

 

[cheeseyfatmonkey]

I've just realised i'm probably guilty of dragging this thread off topic.

I thought the episode was alright. It was funny in places. I really liked the conversation between the Doctor and Isabella.

I'm not sure if the 'Space fish' plot actually made any sense. Why did they need to sink the city? Do they need underwater houses?

Was there a future Doctor scene? I was lookiing out for it during the episode but nothing stood out like last week (I missed it last week as well and only realised after I had read it here).

 

[Lonemagpie]

I just put vamps of Venice on for Lesley, who missed it last night, and noticed that the phone in Amy's bedroom is exactly the same model of phone as we have on the living room table...

So, how long before Moff is accused of being an evil racist racefail type cos the cast aren't all black heroes? I've noticed the rumblings beginning just because the black characters in the last two episodes died, overlooking the fact that *all* the guest characters died and that having a rich boat-builder of colour in the setting actually looks to me more like some kind of affirmative action to boost the racial variety...

But, hey, I said that about WoM, and nobody listened, because everybody loves a bandwagon to jump on, especially if it's about slagging somebody off for what you can make out is a socio-political reason, so you can look like a mover and a shaker...

Really? I haven't seen these rumblings beginning here or over on Gallifrey Base. Have you got any links to that?

Those rumblings are on LiveJournal communities and my LJ friends list.

Another thing I noticed on the rewatch- although there was no CG crack this time, the lower edge of the clearing in the clouds when the sun came out was exactly the same shape! (but clearly not deliberate, as it was just part of circle and didn't glow or have any music/sound effects

 

[Eyes]

Was a bit of fluff with the vampires, but it was fairly enjoyable for that, and I thought all the character moments were excellent.

Also interesting that the vampire-fish weren't actually evil, just trying to survive.

Loved Rory and 11 together. They do actually work really well playing off each other. I wasn't sure if they would from the scenes in Eleventh Hour.

Oh, and I loved the library card, the Doctor coming out of the cake, even the 'mine-is-bigger' line. It makes the episode a lot more interesting.

 

[Photoman15]

Amy: "....my boys..."

There you go. Moffats' hidden message.
Amy is actually the Doctor's mother (last seen in END OF TIME) that came thru the crack, not knowing she's a Time Lord. Rory is the Doctors' BROTHER, the MASTER, coming from the crack in the Universe (and Time Lock).



Just funnin' with ya.

 

[Zaku]

Otherwise, you might as well complain about how Venice of the period had no man eating fish in the canal.

Oh, that's simple.

The Venetians, after discovering the terrible truth about the Calvierri school, ate all the man eating fish.

Because.. you kown...

WE

ARE

VENETIANS!!!

Oldest Venetians still remember with fondness the delicious Pesce Mangia-Uomini alla Mugnaia...