5x06 The Vampires of Venice (Grading/Discussion) SPOILERS!!
- Thread starter Count Zero
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I'm glad I'm not the only one! 
I watched an interview with Matt Smith where he said he really liked Troughton's Doctor. So maybe he got a lot of his inspiration from him.
I know, isn't that just dead sexy?
He's a fantastic actor, they really did a great job picking him! 
A word about episode lengths from an outside observer:
Hour-long episodes in the United States have been getting shorter in recent years. A quick peek at Hulu shows many hour-long dramas really run for about 43 minutes (about 17 minutes of advertising). For 30-minute shows, it's about 7-8 minutes of adverts.
As a comparison, episodes of classic "Battlestar Galactica" in 1979 ran for 49 minutes — 11 minutes of ads. New BSG episodes run 43-44 minutes which means they've added 5-6 minutes of ads per hour in the past 30 years.
For nearly all networks, this advertising time is a priority over the content of the show, SciFi's cut (or BBC Worldwide's cut) of "Doctor Who" would trim scenes to fit the hour-long length (and you would definitely hear about it from fans). If an episode is long enough (say 60 actual minutes) and is deemed worthy, they would push to a 90-minute timeslot or a two-hour slot if it's closer to 80-90 minutes. BTW, when BBC America aired "The Office" or "Coupling," they usually gave 45-minute slots to the 30-minute shows.
Yes, the commercials can seem like they're placed randomly, but usually there's a scene or an act break to break into.
This season of "Who" is airing on BBC America. I can't say if they're doing any deep cuts to the episodes. BBC America is putting what appears to be uncut episodes on its On-Demand cable service (which includes a couple of breaks for one 30-second ad at a time). I prefer On Demand — full, uncut episodes with minimum breaks, plus the full "Next Time" trailer and closing credits = win, win, win.
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With all that aside aside, I liked this episode, but I wouldn't say it was excellent. The pacing was generally pretty good. I thought Rory was a bit dull, but he got on board fairly quickly and organically by the end of the episode.
Hour-long episodes in the United States have been getting shorter in recent years. A quick peek at Hulu shows many hour-long dramas really run for about 43 minutes (about 17 minutes of advertising). For 30-minute shows, it's about 7-8 minutes of adverts.
As a comparison, episodes of classic "Battlestar Galactica" in 1979 ran for 49 minutes — 11 minutes of ads. New BSG episodes run 43-44 minutes which means they've added 5-6 minutes of ads per hour in the past 30 years.
For nearly all networks, this advertising time is a priority over the content of the show, SciFi's cut (or BBC Worldwide's cut) of "Doctor Who" would trim scenes to fit the hour-long length (and you would definitely hear about it from fans). If an episode is long enough (say 60 actual minutes) and is deemed worthy, they would push to a 90-minute timeslot or a two-hour slot if it's closer to 80-90 minutes. BTW, when BBC America aired "The Office" or "Coupling," they usually gave 45-minute slots to the 30-minute shows.
Yes, the commercials can seem like they're placed randomly, but usually there's a scene or an act break to break into.
This season of "Who" is airing on BBC America. I can't say if they're doing any deep cuts to the episodes. BBC America is putting what appears to be uncut episodes on its On-Demand cable service (which includes a couple of breaks for one 30-second ad at a time). I prefer On Demand — full, uncut episodes with minimum breaks, plus the full "Next Time" trailer and closing credits = win, win, win.
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With all that aside aside, I liked this episode, but I wouldn't say it was excellent. The pacing was generally pretty good. I thought Rory was a bit dull, but he got on board fairly quickly and organically by the end of the episode.
The ~45 minute shows seem to be uncut (I've seen "Time of Angels" and "Flesh and Stone). They hatchet-jobbed "The 11th Hour" down to fit into 45 minutes though (it was originally a little over an hour long). It was horrible; I felt sorry for anyone watching that episode for the first time. I sent them an email complaint and got back a stupid canned reply. 
The ~45 minute shows seem to be uncut (I've seen "Time of Angels" and "Flesh and Stone). They hatchet-jobbed "The 11th Hour" down to fit into 45 minutes though (it was originally a little over an hour long). It was horrible; I felt sorry for anyone watching that episode for the first time. I sent them an email complaint and got back a stupid canned reply.
I believe the original airing was uncut. Subsequent airings were cut.
My favorite part of the episode was when the "Fish-witch" said the Doctor belonged in a museum. And not to episodes before, where was the Doctor? He and Amy were browsing through a Museum. 
I think the Doctor's screwdriver is being used in the broadest of ways. An open wound might be considered a "doorway" and his device is "closing it"
I agree about the Switch on the Weather device. It seems that the tech people spent all their money on other devices and CGI in the episode, so when it came down to the weather sphere, the off switch is Off The Shelf. It is your plain average Toggle switch.
I think the Doctor's screwdriver is being used in the broadest of ways. An open wound might be considered a "doorway" and his device is "closing it"
I agree about the Switch on the Weather device. It seems that the tech people spent all their money on other devices and CGI in the episode, so when it came down to the weather sphere, the off switch is Off The Shelf. It is your plain average Toggle switch.
I've noticed shows even shorter from US channels. like 39 minutes or so. But it seems like even shows from our commercial channels would have to be cut to fit US advertising and even our advertising has increased over the years... I think it currently stands at 12-15 minutes per hour.
Talking about late to the party - due to a preemption the episode just aired here in Canada.
I put it under the "Quite Good Indeed" category. It didn't quite hit "Geronimo" levels because this is one of the first nuWho episodes that I will agree felt rushed. Especially with the overseas filming, this one really did feel like it should have been a 2-parter or at least a 70-minute episode. There were a few narrative jumps that were a little off-putting.
I also felt the direction was a bit off in places too, especially during Rory's fight scene. Almost as if they realized in the editing they hadn't shot enough coverage and had to make do.
But there's still a lot of great things about the episode, from the dialogue to the sexy vampire girls, to little touches like Amy looking scared witless in the first scene in the TARDIS, wondering what's going on here.
The cake scene was a hoot, along with the "tell me the whole plan!" bit. Nice to see the shoutout to Hartnell, as well.
I was talking last week to a friend of mine who remarked that Smith really hasn't felt like his own Doctor so far, with occasions where he comes off like Tennant, or Troughton. But I think this episode is where he finally finds his own voice, and I never thought of any of the other Doctors (well, except Hartnell).
I remain a little nervous about having a third-wheel companion. Especially one who seems a bit of a clutz, almost in a Harry Sullivan way (interestingly both are medical men, too, a fact I'd forgotten until Rory went to check on the flower girl). Still, he had some good moments, and I hope the tension remains between him and the Doctor.
Anyway, some good meat in this one - enough that it warrants a couple of viewings to catch everything. And what about that scenery! (And no I'm not going on about the vampire girls again! Though I will say that if they ever decide to play "recycle the bad girl" again for a companion, I vote for the blonde with the big hair!)
Alex
I put it under the "Quite Good Indeed" category. It didn't quite hit "Geronimo" levels because this is one of the first nuWho episodes that I will agree felt rushed. Especially with the overseas filming, this one really did feel like it should have been a 2-parter or at least a 70-minute episode. There were a few narrative jumps that were a little off-putting.
I also felt the direction was a bit off in places too, especially during Rory's fight scene. Almost as if they realized in the editing they hadn't shot enough coverage and had to make do.
But there's still a lot of great things about the episode, from the dialogue to the sexy vampire girls, to little touches like Amy looking scared witless in the first scene in the TARDIS, wondering what's going on here.
The cake scene was a hoot, along with the "tell me the whole plan!" bit. Nice to see the shoutout to Hartnell, as well.
I was talking last week to a friend of mine who remarked that Smith really hasn't felt like his own Doctor so far, with occasions where he comes off like Tennant, or Troughton. But I think this episode is where he finally finds his own voice, and I never thought of any of the other Doctors (well, except Hartnell).
I remain a little nervous about having a third-wheel companion. Especially one who seems a bit of a clutz, almost in a Harry Sullivan way (interestingly both are medical men, too, a fact I'd forgotten until Rory went to check on the flower girl). Still, he had some good moments, and I hope the tension remains between him and the Doctor.
Anyway, some good meat in this one - enough that it warrants a couple of viewings to catch everything. And what about that scenery! (And no I'm not going on about the vampire girls again! Though I will say that if they ever decide to play "recycle the bad girl" again for a companion, I vote for the blonde with the big hair!)
Alex
Definately a fun episode. Best line of the season (so far) is when Rory looks at the psychic paper. "It says here I'm your eunich."
I guess that depends on one's point of view. For all his regenerations he is still the Doctor and I think when an actor takes inspiratio from his predecessors it's acknowledging that fact.
That doesn't mean that it should come through in each episode but I have no problems with the nods and elements of earlier regenerations making their appearance.
As to the story you can feel some sympathy towards Rosanna and her species and it does raises the question about the whether 200,000 lives are worth sacrificing to prevent a genocide but we don't know whether the raise in question had anything to offer.
I wonder - was that what others saw or the physic paper working on Rory's brain i.e while not feeling emasculated per se he's not feeling like Amy's fiancee either.
I thought that was an enjoyable episode.
- There were some funny moments, like the Doctor popping up out of the cake and Isabelle's father wearing Rory's stag party clothes was hilarious;
- I liked how the Doctor worked out why the vamps didn't cast a reflection;
- I've only seen Helen McRory previously in the last Harry Potter movie, but she was good as the queen fish-alien. Her scenes with the Doctor were quite good.
- I'll agree with the comment way up-thread about the tell-instead-of-show when Isabelle died. When she kept telling what was happening to her, I kept expecting them to show us with some underwater shots. It just felt really weird.
- I'll join the others in agreeing that the blonde vamp was totally hot. If a vampire had to drain me dry until I'm dead, I would have no problem with her doing it. I will have to Google later to find out who she is...
- Hartnell on the library card was cool, as was Rory taking photos of Amy with his mobile's camera. Not everybody gets to go to Venice in 1560 or whatever it was and take home pics of the occasion!
- I like that Eleven can be quite explosive at times, like when Amy brushed aside his "order" to return to the TARDIS.
- Oh, and I also thought it sounded like "Francesca" the first few times "mummy" said his name, though it did finally sound like "Francesco" the last time.
Next week (and by that I mean "Amy's Choice" here) looks interesting in a complex timey-wimey way...
- There were some funny moments, like the Doctor popping up out of the cake and Isabelle's father wearing Rory's stag party clothes was hilarious;
- I liked how the Doctor worked out why the vamps didn't cast a reflection;
- I've only seen Helen McRory previously in the last Harry Potter movie, but she was good as the queen fish-alien. Her scenes with the Doctor were quite good.
- I'll agree with the comment way up-thread about the tell-instead-of-show when Isabelle died. When she kept telling what was happening to her, I kept expecting them to show us with some underwater shots. It just felt really weird.
- I'll join the others in agreeing that the blonde vamp was totally hot. If a vampire had to drain me dry until I'm dead, I would have no problem with her doing it.
I will have to Google later to find out who she is...- Hartnell on the library card was cool, as was Rory taking photos of Amy with his mobile's camera. Not everybody gets to go to Venice in 1560 or whatever it was and take home pics of the occasion!
- I like that Eleven can be quite explosive at times, like when Amy brushed aside his "order" to return to the TARDIS.
- Oh, and I also thought it sounded like "Francesca" the first few times "mummy" said his name, though it did finally sound like "Francesco" the last time.
Next week (and by that I mean "Amy's Choice" here) looks interesting in a complex timey-wimey way...
I just loved this episode! It's definitely my favourite of the series so far. I've been a bit disappointed with a lot of the episodes but this one was so much fun!
I loved Rory, I prefer him to Amy actually. Loved the Doctor coming out of the cake and Rory and Francesco's swordfight. "The only thing i've seen uglier than you is...your mum"
Also loved every scene with the fab Rosanna who was played so well by Helen McCrory. Especially loved
the face off between the Doctor and Rosanna. Thought they had great chemistry.
I loved Rory, I prefer him to Amy actually. Loved the Doctor coming out of the cake and Rory and Francesco's swordfight. "The only thing i've seen uglier than you is...your mum"
Also loved every scene with the fab Rosanna who was played so well by Helen McCrory. Especially loved
the face off between the Doctor and Rosanna. Thought they had great chemistry.
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