What continuity errors are there on Voyager?

[Luther Sloan]

Sure, there's a continuity issue there, but I'm willing to forgive it because Minefield was a mildly interesting story that did something unique; they set it on the hull of the ship with some great visuals. It also had some important character development for Reed.

That episode could have been about any old race, it didn't have to be the Romulans, but they were planning on introducing the Romulans at some point so they decided to do it there. Perhaps that was a mistake, I don't know.

TGB:

Yeah, inconsistencies within your own series is one thing, but insulting a long established piece of canon within the Trek-verse is totally unacceptable to me (no matter how good the frosting tastes or the special effects are).

Hmm, throw in a guest-villain role to be played by Vaughn Armstrong and I think you're on to something!

Personally, after seeing "In A Mirror Darkly" I wanted Vauhn Armstrong to be the Captain of the regular Enterprise series and Bakula to be the second in command.

 

[exodus]

The question is, why does it bother you that I do like to look for the truth or accuracy of things (whether it be fictional or non fictional)?

I think you're misunderstanding me.

 

[TheGodBen]

First off, they are professional writers.

Who are?

What you've given as a story is called a screenplay.

No, what I gave was a brief story outline. It probably wouldn't even qualify as a pitch. Isn't a screenplay like a big long thing with dialogue and action and locations and stuff?

A pre-existing skeleton of a story where you simply change the names.

What names?

It takes a good professional writer to create a story that doesn't go down the predicable path. I think the ep. does just that by making the subject about a possible physical violation instead of the obvious weapons scenario.

As I said, I'm not a professional writer, I merely judge professional writers by my own narrow standards, then I give them numerical ratings to make them feel bad.

 

[Saquist]

Yes. It's like saying all your food and cooking utensils are all gone in your far way from civilization log cabin and your being vocally negative about the situation. That's not to say that you still can't make a spear and hunt. Tuvok was simply having a slight pessimistic point of view at that specific moment. He was simply pointing out that the torpedoes can't be replaced at the next nearest Federation starbase (so easily). Not that they couldn't go out and get the materials needed and be inventive in creating their own custom made torpedoes.

Oh, and I am definitely going to be re-watching VOY's "Nothing Human" to address the concerns with that episode, too.

Unfortunately that's how canon works. One line can create all manner of contradiction and another line 5 years later resolves it all. At the moment just like all the problems with ENT, it's a contradiction until a writer undo's the damage.

 

[DevilEyes]

Sure, there's a continuity issue there, but I'm willing to forgive it because Minefield was a mildly interesting story that did something unique; they set it on the hull of the ship with some great visuals. It also had some important character development for Reed.

That episode could have been about any old race, it didn't have to be the Romulans, but they were planning on introducing the Romulans at some point so they decided to do it there. Perhaps that was a mistake, I don't know.

TGB:

Yeah, inconsistencies within your own series is one thing, but insulting a long established piece of canon within the Trek-verse is totally unacceptable to me (no matter how good the frosting tastes or the special effects are)..

I would say exactly the opposite. If a series can't be consistent with itself, that's far, far worse than any "violations" of canon of some other series. For instance, I couldn't give a frak if Frasier had a discontinuity with Cheers (which were retconned in a funny way anyway), since those are two shows, even if the former is a spin-off of the latter, but if, say, Roz was pregnant one episode and then not pregnant the next and then pregnant again, that would be a problem.

 

[Luther Sloan]

Actually, I think the core of the real problem concerning Enterprise was in going back (into the past with a prequel series) and changing something that was already established. That is why JJ Abram's was smart enough to set his universe within an alternate time line to begin with. He knew there was going to be inconsistencies between the two universes no matter how hard they would have tried.

It's sort of like trying to pull the table cloth trick on a dinner table with a giant turkey roast dinner and ten other large bowls of heavy side dishes on it.

As for the problems with Voyager, they are very minor to me by comparison to the ones made on Enterprise. IMO: It's like comparing big giant flashing neon signs versus tiny little lights on a 5 inch office desk christmas tree.

Hey, but it's all good. I understand that we all have our reasons for thinking the way that we do. Myself included.

 

[exodus]

Actually, I think the core of the real problem was in going back (into the past with a prequel series) and changing something that was already established. That is why JJ Abram's was smart enough to set his universe within an alternate time line to begin with. He knew there was going to be inconsistencies between the two universes no matter how hard they would have tried.

It's sort of like trying to pull the table cloth trick on a dinner table with a giant turkey roast dinner and ten other large bowls of heavy side dishes on it.

Exactly.

Frankly, I think we should all watch the ep. "Muse" again.
It's full of metaphors & inside jokes from the writers.
Its a small glimps of how writers create and write the show.
The Dictator represents the overwhelming demand the audience has to the writers.
It shows how things in a script can change at the last minute and how inconsistancy can happen due to it.
It shows how actors can be difficult and refusing to do certain scenes, also causing changes leading to inconsistancies and how writers are on a tight deadline.
It shows how writers jump throught hoops to please us, even if sometimes they fail.
It shows how the Dictator is oblivous to all this and only wants what he wants.

 

[DevilEyes]

^ It also shows the writers doing their best to present their show as very different (and more serious) than what it really is...

Namely, B'Elanna ridicules the idea of Janeway and Chakotay having a romantic relationship (subtle!), by saying "When you're going up against the Borg, romance is the last thing on your mind!"

O RLY? Aside from the irony of B'Elanna saying that line, of all people... How about when you're exploring anomalies, entertaining local diplomats, participating in local sub-warp races, watching local wrestling contests, letting the Doctor sing Opera for the locals, and spending all day long in a corny holodeck program of an imaginary 19th century Irish village, befriending and romancing holograms?

 

[exodus]

^ It also shows the writers doing their best to present their show as very different (and more serious) than what it really is...

From their point of view it is.

 

[Tiberius]

Sure, there's a continuity issue there, but I'm willing to forgive it because Minefield was a mildly interesting story that did something unique; they set it on the hull of the ship with some great visuals. It also had some important character development for Reed.

That episode could have been about any old race, it didn't have to be the Romulans, but they were planning on introducing the Romulans at some point so they decided to do it there. Perhaps that was a mistake, I don't know.

TGB:

Yeah, inconsistencies within your own series is one thing, but insulting a long established piece of canon within the Trek-verse is totally unacceptable to me (no matter how good the frosting tastes or the special effects are)..

I would say exactly the opposite. If a series can't be consistent with itself, that's far, far worse than any "violations" of canon of some other series. For instance, I couldn't give a frak if Frasier had a discontinuity with Cheers (which were retconned in a funny way anyway), since those are two shows, even if the former is a spin-off of the latter, but if, say, Roz was pregnant one episode and then not pregnant the next and then pregnant again, that would be a problem.

I don't think that trek ever did anything to that degree.

 

[Luther Sloan]

If you didn't see it already, check this out...

http://trekbbs.com/showpost.php?p=3997372&postcount=224

 

[Luther Sloan]

As for Star Trek Voyager...

 

[starlitegirl]

I want to add something on this wondering if anyone else noted it since I'm just watching it now:

In Voyager S4E24 Demon - they allow DNA copies of themselves to be made by the primordial stuff on that planet that wants to be sentient.

In S4E26 Hope & Fear they get slipstream technology but don't use it until a future episode...

In S5E1 Night - they use a wormhole that cuts 2 years off their journey.

In S5E6 Timeless - they adapt the slipstream technology from Hope & Fear and ultimately shave off 10 years from their journey.

In S5E15 Dark Frontier part 2 - they use the Borg transwarp coil and shave another 15 years off their journey.

Now here is the part that gets me:

In S5E17 Course: Oblivion - the duplicates made in Demon had ventured toward earth 'home' having forgotten they were duplicates. They can't survive any longer due to the warp drive (and I think because they need to be on a Y class planet). Ultimately, they fall apart in space. At the end, the real Voyager crosses path with whatever was left floating in space, yet how could the real Voyager come across the duplicates when the real Voyager was already 25-27 years ahead of them? The Demon Voyager is a copy of the original and doesn't have different abilities. So I don't understand how the two could have crossed paths at all unless maybe they changed a stardate recording in a log entry (since I don't pay attention to them) and made it actually an earlier entry than it was, but even then - in the episode they state that 18 months had passed for the Demon Voyager since they left the Demon planet and on the real Voyager it would have to be the same 18 months, wouldn't it?

So how could they cross paths when one is 25 years closer to earth?

 

[F. King Daniel]

Without reading the thread (sorry!) I'm gonna dive in and say that the single biggest continuity error with Voyager was the premise itself.

In TOS "That Which Survives" the Enterprise explicitly covers 1000 light years in 11.337 hours at warp 8.7. "Caretaker" comes along at gives us a 70,000 light year journey with a maximum speed of warp 9.975 taking 75 years.

It should have been a four week journey!!

 

[starlitegirl]

In TOS "That Which Survives" the Enterprise explicitly covers 1000 light years in 11.337 hours at warp 8.7. "Caretaker" comes along at gives us a 70,000 light year journey with a maximum speed of warp 9.975 taking 75 years.

It should have been a four week journey!!

That's a major discrepancy. I guess all the follow up creators missed that little nugget. Seems they manipulate time and distance to suit their needs. Or maybe someone actually calculated warp speed against actual distance since TOS, which wouldn't surprise me given that's the sort of thing hardcore geeks would quite likely love to do.

Now I'm curious if someone actually did the math and discovered TOS calculations were off or if it was total ignorance to that relevant detail. hmmm?

 

[MacLeod]

Well if we wanted to mention the speed issue. in another TOS episode "by Any Other Name" we have an alien race that can modify Federation warp drives to traverse the vast intergalactic distances from the Milky Way to the Andromeda Glaxy to only 300 years. 2 500 000 / 300 = 8333.34 ly/year. If Kirk kept his word a robot ship would have been built. Which could have meant Starfleet gaining access to faster warp drives.

But as to the nature of the thread it's self. Any show has to follow the rules of it's it's universe. One could ask the question did Voyager stretch those rules to breaking point?

as for the torpedeo issue, yes there was a line re: That they won't be able to replace them. A simply change in the line would have solved the issue. "We only have 38 torpedeos and they will be difficult to replace"

Now you have changed from a definite to a possibility, you now don't have to say how you replaced them, because you said there was a possibility you could replace them.

Shuttles, Voyager could be possibly be described in modern terms as perhaps a destroyer (or at a stretch a light cruiser). So would a ship of that size have the facilities to replace shuttles. Perhaps it could have replaced one or two but the number it did, begins to stretch credibiiltiy.

Damage to ship, the most common argument is that they used the replicators to repair the damage. Which is possible but I suspect you would need an Industrial replicator to replicate hull plating. (Dialouge from DSN, seems to indicate that these aren't handed out like Candy, If memory serves the Federation gave Bajor 4, that's 4 for a whole [planet. So it's unlikely a small ship like Voyager would have one. Even if it did, it wouldn't have hurt to show the damage slowly being repaired over a period of episodes.

From TNG, I believe we were told that Federation ships use certain advanced materials that others races don't. With VOY it seemed the closer they got Federation space the closer in tech the alien races got. So finding those materials should have been harder in the earlier seasons.

The Beta Quadrant?

2374 -

Kes problems the ship 9500ly, ten years closer to home
Slipstream drive from the Dauntless 10 300ly another 10 years closer to home.

2375 -
Wormhole in void shortens journey by 2500 another 2.5 years closer to home
Borg Transwarp coild knocked another 15 years off their joruney.

2376 -

Tash Graviton Catapult knocked another 3 years off.

Factor into 5 years for ordinary jorney time

Total some 45 300ly traveled, leaving some 24 700ly to go or 25 years.

Size of Milky Way Galaxy ~100 000ly acrosss, I believe Earth is some 20 000 ly into the Galaxy. 20 000 + 70 000 = 90 000ly so at most Voyager was 10 000ly from the Galactic rim. As each quadrant it's widest is only ~ 50 000ly and Voyager was 10 000 ly into it, they should have been around 40 000 at most from changing quadrant. So 40 000 - 45 300 = -5 300 ly. Which should be the Beta Quadrant.

http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/ask_astro/answers/030827a.html

 

[Anwar]

Yeah, that whole "We can't make new torpedoes or shuttles" thing always bugged me, since they never bothered explaining just why it would be so impossible to replace those things. If they'd said "We can't easily replace them without outside aid" then it leaves it open to possibility that they could replace them on their own, and they'd DEFINITELY be able to do it at an alien starbase.

 

[Guy Gardener]

They never said that they couldn't build new torpedos, she just said with a sad face "we only have 70 torpedos".

Starlitegirl, once Phauxoyager figured out their "advanced warpdrive" was getting them in the piss they wanted to find the original Janeway, and they had passed a Demon planet a few months earlier so they were also going backwards towards that... The Quicksilver crew was closing the gap.

 

[Tiberius]

Wasn't there an episode where someone says, "And no way to replace them once they're gone?"

 

[Alex1939]

What's wrong with "fanwank" theories to expl,ain these problems? if it's a plausible explanation, why njot accept it?

Sorry, but I just see the whole attitude of "If we don't see it, it didn't happen!" to be ridiculous.

Nothing is wrong with that as long as you don't care if Voyager was a successful television show, which even given it's 7 year run, it wasn't.

Of course there were a lot more problems (and more serious problems) than continuity errors.

Voyager really started the decline in Star Trek. And I don't buy the "there was too much Trek" theory at all. As long as it was good people would watch. The ratings plummeted because it just wasn't THAT good.