Ah, No Surrender, No Retreat, this is the stuff. It's a meaty, exciting, well thought-out episode that kicks things up a gear.I really like how they have to justify what they're doing and put their case to the Earth captains. Though there's a lot of good stuff in the middle stages of Season 4, the show needed an event episode, and this one delivers. Oh, and Bob Kelso?!!
DS9 Versus: A viewing experient
- Thread starter Sykonee
- Start date
The way Vejar did Sheridan's take down in the bar amazes me overtime I see the episode.
Week 32: (Ending 06.15.97)
DS9 - In The Cards (06.09.97)
B5 - The Face Of The Enemy (06.12.97)
Not fair. It's not fair! Dirty, sneaky, wretched...
DS9 did it all right this week. The humor, the plotting, the coy parodies, the ominous foreshadow in the background. This is such a wonderful episode, filled with heart. It ends with a positive vibe, leaving you with a warm glow and silly smile on your face. How can you not give the thumbs up to an episode like this?
Well, sure, B5 does a lot of great stuff too - Sheridan's capture has to be one of the best filmed scenes the series has ever done. Really though, there is a lot of exposition here, and though Zimbalist and Koenig handle it very well, it's still just a whole bunch of compelling talking about "what's really going on". But... the ending nonetheless has you tipping over the edge of your seat. After all this, what on earth is going to happen next? It's not even a cliff-hanger - just expertly executed serial storytelling.
In terms of charming character plots, DS9 wins. B5, however, trumps it by having all hell breaking loose, leaving The Good Guys at their lowest since... since... geez, ever? If B5 can keep this up next week, DS9's going to have one hell of a fight on its hands for its season finale, but then DS9 hasn't let down on a season finale yet.
Weekly Winner
B5
Next:
DS9 - Call To Arms
B5 - Intersections In Real Time
DS9 - In The Cards (06.09.97)
B5 - The Face Of The Enemy (06.12.97)
Not fair. It's not fair! Dirty, sneaky, wretched...
DS9 did it all right this week. The humor, the plotting, the coy parodies, the ominous foreshadow in the background. This is such a wonderful episode, filled with heart. It ends with a positive vibe, leaving you with a warm glow and silly smile on your face. How can you not give the thumbs up to an episode like this?
Well, sure, B5 does a lot of great stuff too - Sheridan's capture has to be one of the best filmed scenes the series has ever done. Really though, there is a lot of exposition here, and though Zimbalist and Koenig handle it very well, it's still just a whole bunch of compelling talking about "what's really going on". But... the ending nonetheless has you tipping over the edge of your seat. After all this, what on earth is going to happen next? It's not even a cliff-hanger - just expertly executed serial storytelling.
In terms of charming character plots, DS9 wins. B5, however, trumps it by having all hell breaking loose, leaving The Good Guys at their lowest since... since... geez, ever? If B5 can keep this up next week, DS9's going to have one hell of a fight on its hands for its season finale, but then DS9 hasn't let down on a season finale yet.
Weekly Winner
B5
Next:
DS9 - Call To Arms
B5 - Intersections In Real Time
Yeah, that scene is pretty awesome. Strobe lighting combined with still photographs gives a really weird, drugged up feel to it. Almost like time is slowing down. But I suppose that is exactly what happens when you are getting beaten to a bloody pulp...
I really like The Exercise of Vital Powers. It may not be as exciting as the preceding episode, but it's really dark and moody and I thought Jerry Doyle did a great job.
In the Cards is really cool. The Jake and Nog stuff is good, but what really stands out for me is the material concerning Sisko, Winn and Bajor. Kind of makes me sad that Bajor will never be handled so well again, but still.
However, The Face of the Enemy is just too good to lose this round. I agree that the episode is perhaps a bit too exposition-heavy, but since the Garibaldi-Edgars scene is handled so well it doesn't bother me that much. This is a pretty epic episode all told - betrayal, murder, anger, despair. Also, Mike Vejar's direction here is outstanding - sadly although he directed a couple more episodes after this one, this is the last real classic he did on B5.
In the Cards is really cool. The Jake and Nog stuff is good, but what really stands out for me is the material concerning Sisko, Winn and Bajor. Kind of makes me sad that Bajor will never be handled so well again, but still.
However, The Face of the Enemy is just too good to lose this round. I agree that the episode is perhaps a bit too exposition-heavy, but since the Garibaldi-Edgars scene is handled so well it doesn't bother me that much. This is a pretty epic episode all told - betrayal, murder, anger, despair. Also, Mike Vejar's direction here is outstanding - sadly although he directed a couple more episodes after this one, this is the last real classic he did on B5.
Week 33: (Ending 06.22.97)
DS9 - Call To Arms (Airdate 06.16.97)
B5 - Intersections In Real Time (Airdate 06.19.97)
This is the one. Er, the other one.
Sure, I was sort of a passive fan of DS9 up to this point, more or less enjoying the odd episode I'd catch. Yet that was more as a fan of Trek in general - I was no more a Niner than I was, say, a Voyagerer(er-er-er...). That changed when I watched this episode though.
You could feel this building throughout S5: the subtle hints, the clever dodges prolonging your anticipation... Finally though, we get our payoff, and what a payoff! Rom and Leeta are finally married!! *ducks and dodges random debris*
Alright, to be seriously serious again, Call To Arms totally sold me on this series as Best Trek EVAR. When Sisko says, "Tell all Starfleet personnel we're evacuating the station.", my jaw dropped. I couldn't believe they were going to shake up the show this much! Nothing in Trek's history had done something so audacious. Well, I guess VOY had when they left the crew abandoned, but it wasn't the same feeling as here. The stakes were just so much higher, and you felt this was an enormous loss to all we're concerned about. This was falling-off-of-seat action-thrills, making you hope the summer doesn't last long so you can find out What Happens Next. Hell, even B5 was never so bold to lose their station. It'd be like Clark's forces actually winning in Severed Dreams!
Then, perhaps one of the grandest of 'space opera' gestures, you have Sisko's message, Dukat's knowing smirk, then the sight of the biggest damn fleet Trek's ever seen, sending us into credits. OH!! SHSSISISTSCDHGDGHSGDDSSDhjkdnkangsdgfds.............!!!!!
*picks mind off floor, it having been blown*
Alright, alright. Settle down. What does B5 have for us in competition then? It left us with quite the big shakeup itself last week, though perhaps not quite as big as this. They're tough though, that Babylon show, always managing to up the ante when you least expect it. Alright, alright... let's see.
Uh huh, right. Okay, I guess we were to expect this, seeing some interrogation scenes after Sheridan's capture. That's fine. TNG did it brilliantly with Chain Of Command way back. Uh huh. And... wait, is this all? It's just going to be this the whole episode? No, wait, it can't. I mean, sure, it's interesting, rather compelling as an experimental episode and all, but what about all the other things going on right now? Damn it, JMS, you're torturing us with this tangent! Don't we get to see anything regarding Ivanova or Garibaldi this episode? WHAT!?? Nothing!??? We have to wait until after summer now!?? Ah, dang it.
Yeah, DS9 blows B5 out of the water this time. It's just no comparison. Lesson learned? Never go up against DS9 on a season finale.
Weekly Winner
DS9
Next:
S5 Tally!
DS9 - Call To Arms (Airdate 06.16.97)
B5 - Intersections In Real Time (Airdate 06.19.97)
This is the one. Er, the other one.
Sure, I was sort of a passive fan of DS9 up to this point, more or less enjoying the odd episode I'd catch. Yet that was more as a fan of Trek in general - I was no more a Niner than I was, say, a Voyagerer(er-er-er...). That changed when I watched this episode though.
You could feel this building throughout S5: the subtle hints, the clever dodges prolonging your anticipation... Finally though, we get our payoff, and what a payoff! Rom and Leeta are finally married!! *ducks and dodges random debris*
Alright, to be seriously serious again, Call To Arms totally sold me on this series as Best Trek EVAR. When Sisko says, "Tell all Starfleet personnel we're evacuating the station.", my jaw dropped. I couldn't believe they were going to shake up the show this much! Nothing in Trek's history had done something so audacious. Well, I guess VOY had when they left the crew abandoned, but it wasn't the same feeling as here. The stakes were just so much higher, and you felt this was an enormous loss to all we're concerned about. This was falling-off-of-seat action-thrills, making you hope the summer doesn't last long so you can find out What Happens Next. Hell, even B5 was never so bold to lose their station. It'd be like Clark's forces actually winning in Severed Dreams!
Then, perhaps one of the grandest of 'space opera' gestures, you have Sisko's message, Dukat's knowing smirk, then the sight of the biggest damn fleet Trek's ever seen, sending us into credits. OH!! SHSSISISTSCDHGDGHSGDDSSDhjkdnkangsdgfds.............!!!!!
*picks mind off floor, it having been blown*
Alright, alright. Settle down. What does B5 have for us in competition then? It left us with quite the big shakeup itself last week, though perhaps not quite as big as this. They're tough though, that Babylon show, always managing to up the ante when you least expect it. Alright, alright... let's see.
Uh huh, right. Okay, I guess we were to expect this, seeing some interrogation scenes after Sheridan's capture. That's fine. TNG did it brilliantly with Chain Of Command way back. Uh huh. And... wait, is this all? It's just going to be this the whole episode? No, wait, it can't. I mean, sure, it's interesting, rather compelling as an experimental episode and all, but what about all the other things going on right now? Damn it, JMS, you're torturing us with this tangent! Don't we get to see anything regarding Ivanova or Garibaldi this episode? WHAT!?? Nothing!??? We have to wait until after summer now!?? Ah, dang it.
Yeah, DS9 blows B5 out of the water this time. It's just no comparison. Lesson learned? Never go up against DS9 on a season finale.
Weekly Winner
DS9
Next:
S5 Tally!
That... would be crazy indeed. Cruelly so, considering how big B5's season finales tended to be.
The unfortunate thing is the "following week" ended up being "3.5 months later".
Season 5 Tally
Because I'm lazy, here's a c+p from last season's tally:
Solo
DS9 - 3
VOY - 7
B5 - 2
Trek vs Trek
DS9 - 0
VOY - 2
Trek vs B5
DS9 - 1
VOY - 0
B5 - 3
Triple Versus
DS9 - 8
VOY - 2
B5 - 7
Once again, VOY tried to keep out of the fighting as much as possible, having quite a few solo weeks. Interestingly though, it beat DS9 in direct head-to-head competition each time, which is the exact opposite of what happened last season. Possibly the biggest turnaround, however, is DS9's Triple Versus victory count. B5 totally dominated that category last year but not so much this time. Might it be that B5 is starting to slip, or has DS9 just improved that much more over its main rival? Tough to tell just from this, since there could have been a number of close calls and squeaker wins once more. So, on to the Yay/Nay tally!
DS9
21:5 = 4.20
VOY
14:12 = 1.17
B5
17:6 = 2.83
Looks like both Treks managed to improve. VOY got itself back to a positive ratio, whereas DS9 gained a full point on its ratio! B5, however, slipped by nearly half a point.
The unfortunate thing for B5 is, with its main arc more or less wrapped up, it began dealing with smaller arcs, some of which never really developed well before they concluded. Also, B5 did a few too many experimental episodes, which tended to derail whatever current arcs were happening at a given time. This of itself wouldn't be so bad, but a fifth season for the show was still in the air. By taking time do such episodes while seemingly rushing other significant threads in b-plots (the Non-Aligned Worlds 'comedy' bit, for instance), it tends to dilute the overall quality of the show.
B5 is still a show to be reckoned with; however, this is the year DS9 definitely surpassed it once again, retaking the crown of Best TV Sci-Fi. It continued to put out great Character Episodes, and the Event Episodes continuously topped even B5's best stuff. It was as though DS9 simply waited for B5 to finish its Shadow War before saying, "Okay, now let's give the audience something really memorable.
" They certainly managed that.Season Winner
DS9
Next:
VOY - Scorpion, Part II
I actually think Intersections in Real Time is a really good episode. I loved the vibe and pacing of it and the interrogator was a very memorable character. I hear there was to have been a bit with Garibaldi in, but I'm glad they decided to drop it, since, in my eyes, it would have diluted the episode. It also serves as a very good change of pace between two very intense episodes.
That said, DS9 wins because Call to Arms is one of the best event episodes the show ever did. Very exciting and probably the biggest shake-up the show ever got. Who needs two-parters?
I think DS9 had its best ever year, but I don't think it surpassed B5. Both shows were very consistent around this time, but (to cheat a little bit) I found B5's fourth season to be more effective as a whole. I also didn't find the end of the Shadow War to be much of a problem, since the Earth stuff was ultimately just as important to the show. It took a little bit of time to change gears, but once it did... There will come a point where the DS9 on the air is better than the B5 on the air - we're nearly there, but not quite yet.
That said, DS9 wins because Call to Arms is one of the best event episodes the show ever did. Very exciting and probably the biggest shake-up the show ever got. Who needs two-parters?
I think DS9 had its best ever year, but I don't think it surpassed B5. Both shows were very consistent around this time, but (to cheat a little bit) I found B5's fourth season to be more effective as a whole. I also didn't find the end of the Shadow War to be much of a problem, since the Earth stuff was ultimately just as important to the show. It took a little bit of time to change gears, but once it did... There will come a point where the DS9 on the air is better than the B5 on the air - we're nearly there, but not quite yet.
Season 6
Week 1: (Ending 09.07.97)
VOY - Scorpion, Part II (Airdate 09.03.97)
Once again, the competition spots VOY one month of solo airings. I wouldn't get too cocky there, DS9 and B5. Sure, the last two season weren't all that great but the show did seem to get its act together towards the end of last season, capping off with the excellent Scorpion. If it can build off of that, gaining momentum throughout September, you two just may be in for one hell of a fight upon returning.
And VOY doesn't hold back, going out full-sprint and maintaining that pace. In fact, it almost seems to be going too fast. Is it just my imagination, or did this episode breeze by quickly? It felt like it was over just as it was getting started. Well, okay, Species 8472 seemed to turn tail rather quickly, but even then.
What's really great about this episode though, is how it continues to build the animosity between Janeway and Chakotay. I love the fact it remained the main point of conflict in this story, and things only seem to go their way once they overcome it. There's a potentially galaxy-changing war going on, yet we-the-audience still care more about these two resolving their differences. Ace, I says.
And I'll admit, when I was watching this first run and it was revealed at the end that Seven was going to be a permanent part of the cast, I was stunned. I'd never paid attention to behind-the-scenes issues with the show, and the opening credits are usually my "get snacks from kitchen" time, so I missed seeing her name there. I simply figured she was a guest actress for this one episode.
So in a nutshell, VOY says, "Okay, it's our fourth season. Time to shake shit up some." Sounds good to me. I look forward to it!
By the way, why was Lien's name in the guest actor's credits...? (
)
Weekly Winner
VOY
Next:
VOY - The Gift
Week 1: (Ending 09.07.97)
VOY - Scorpion, Part II (Airdate 09.03.97)
Once again, the competition spots VOY one month of solo airings. I wouldn't get too cocky there, DS9 and B5. Sure, the last two season weren't all that great but the show did seem to get its act together towards the end of last season, capping off with the excellent Scorpion. If it can build off of that, gaining momentum throughout September, you two just may be in for one hell of a fight upon returning.
And VOY doesn't hold back, going out full-sprint and maintaining that pace. In fact, it almost seems to be going too fast. Is it just my imagination, or did this episode breeze by quickly? It felt like it was over just as it was getting started. Well, okay, Species 8472 seemed to turn tail rather quickly, but even then.
What's really great about this episode though, is how it continues to build the animosity between Janeway and Chakotay. I love the fact it remained the main point of conflict in this story, and things only seem to go their way once they overcome it. There's a potentially galaxy-changing war going on, yet we-the-audience still care more about these two resolving their differences. Ace, I says.
And I'll admit, when I was watching this first run and it was revealed at the end that Seven was going to be a permanent part of the cast, I was stunned. I'd never paid attention to behind-the-scenes issues with the show, and the opening credits are usually my "get snacks from kitchen" time, so I missed seeing her name there. I simply figured she was a guest actress for this one episode.
So in a nutshell, VOY says, "Okay, it's our fourth season. Time to shake shit up some." Sounds good to me. I look forward to it!
By the way, why was Lien's name in the guest actor's credits...? (
)Weekly Winner
VOY
Next:
VOY - The Gift
Geez, you ride my ass when I'm objectively critical of VOY, and now you're riding my ass for finding something I subjectively enjoy on a superficial level as well. Is there no pleasing the Kai?
Week 2: (Ending 09.14.97)
VOY - The Gift (Airdate 09.10.97)
Holy continuity, Batman! They actually followed up on last week's events. I guess it puts this episode in the same leagues as TNG's Family or B5's Ceremonies Of Light And Dark. Meaning, it's a quieter Character Episode, in this case dealing with Seven's cranky attitude over being kept on the ship against her Borg Will, and Kes realizing she's too good to keep hangin' out with these losers. So, she goes on a date with Dave Bowman, and kicks Voyager some 9,500 light years away, making damned sure she'll never have to see Neelix's ugly mug again.
Sorry, I'm in a bit of a silly mood right now. This was a decent enough episode though, taking care of the obvious business of giving Lien her send-off while allowing us to figure out what sort of character Seven's going to be now that she's a part of the show. It'll be interesting to see how much they can keep up this kind of continuity in the following weeks.
Weekly Winner
VOY
Next:
VOY - Day Of Honor
Week 3: (Ending 09.21.97)
VOY - Day Of Honor (Airdate 09.17.97)
The show continues to shake shit up, forcing the issue with regards to the kinda-sorta relationship between Tom and B'Elanna. I have to admit it's the first time I've ever seen an 11th hour "I love you" handled in this way: stranded in space. Perhaps what's best about this episode though, is it takes a page from what's made DS9 so consistently good for a while now, that being the Character Episode. Granted, VOY's had a number of them as well, but too often they're victims of plot-heavy scenarios, and we don't get to learn much about a character in the process. Here, however, the plot is merely the setup to get to the character moments. Plus, when you end the episode like that, there's no way you can hit a Reset Button. Continuity rules!
Oh, and Seven gets another b-plot all to herself. Okay, I guess we need this time to get to know the character, but let's not this become a trend, eh? There are other people in the credits, y'know.
Weekly Winner
VOY
Next:
VOY - Nemesis
VOY - Day Of Honor (Airdate 09.17.97)
The show continues to shake shit up, forcing the issue with regards to the kinda-sorta relationship between Tom and B'Elanna. I have to admit it's the first time I've ever seen an 11th hour "I love you" handled in this way: stranded in space. Perhaps what's best about this episode though, is it takes a page from what's made DS9 so consistently good for a while now, that being the Character Episode. Granted, VOY's had a number of them as well, but too often they're victims of plot-heavy scenarios, and we don't get to learn much about a character in the process. Here, however, the plot is merely the setup to get to the character moments. Plus, when you end the episode like that, there's no way you can hit a Reset Button. Continuity rules!
Oh, and Seven gets another b-plot all to herself. Okay, I guess we need this time to get to know the character, but let's not this become a trend, eh? There are other people in the credits, y'know.
Weekly Winner
VOY
Next:
VOY - Nemesis
Week 4: (Ending 09.28.97)
VOY - Nemesis (Airdate 09.24.97)
Saw the twist coming a mile away. The "Ugly Alien Is The Nice Alien" one that is. Hey, it's a sci-fi staple, especially when the purpose of the story is a propaganda allegory. Didn't see the brainwash twist tho'. Seems to be a bit of a complicated way to conscript potential Defenders, but you can't argue the results.
The fancy thesaurus speak seemed kind of pointless, the writers simply trying to come up with another Darmok alien language. Meh, nitpicky nigglings. This was a solid enough episode in the end, though quite stand alone after VOY had a decent run of continuity between episodes for while.
That's VOY's solo time over, and their ship kept steady throughout. DS9's back next week though, and considering how that show ended last season, you just know (or really, really hope) they'll have something great in store for us here. Will VOY be able to offer competition, or will it just throw it like they did last year with a Ferengi episode? Well, we're going to have to find out much later, as I'm going on a little vacation for the rest of the week. Ciao!
Weekly Winner
VOY
Next:
DS9 - A Time To Stand
VOY - Revulsion
VOY - Nemesis (Airdate 09.24.97)
Saw the twist coming a mile away. The "Ugly Alien Is The Nice Alien" one that is. Hey, it's a sci-fi staple, especially when the purpose of the story is a propaganda allegory. Didn't see the brainwash twist tho'. Seems to be a bit of a complicated way to conscript potential Defenders, but you can't argue the results.
The fancy thesaurus speak seemed kind of pointless, the writers simply trying to come up with another Darmok alien language. Meh, nitpicky nigglings. This was a solid enough episode in the end, though quite stand alone after VOY had a decent run of continuity between episodes for while.
That's VOY's solo time over, and their ship kept steady throughout. DS9's back next week though, and considering how that show ended last season, you just know (or really, really hope) they'll have something great in store for us here. Will VOY be able to offer competition, or will it just throw it like they did last year with a Ferengi episode? Well, we're going to have to find out much later, as I'm going on a little vacation for the rest of the week. Ciao!
Weekly Winner
VOY
Next:
DS9 - A Time To Stand
VOY - Revulsion
do not expect too much from ds9 next time, it's not great, but what did you say above, 'sci-fi staple'. voyager is not exactly awesome either, but they try something seen not frequently on star trek, an old-fashioned horror story. quite scary, and probably more memorable than the ds9 episode.
It's so memorable I can't even remember what it was about.
OK, I looked it up on Wikipedia: that's the one with the creepy hologram serial killer on another ship? You prefer that to the absolutely awesome Dominion occupation arc?
Whatever. Your taste is obviously so much different from mine that I just can't understand your reasoning at all.(Oh, and I think Sykonee knows exactly what to "expect"...
)
For someone with a DS9 related avatar and username you do seem to piss on it a lot.
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