Was Kilana the Worst Vorta Ever?

[tomalak301]

Last night I was watching "The Ship" (When was the last time this episode was discussed? ), and something occurred to me. If the Vorta are so good at negotiating skills and stuff like that, did Kilana push Negotiating back about 100 years or so? I mean the Jem'Hadar under her destroy the runabout from orbit and then she comes down and asks Sisko to trust her? And Sisko himself at the end kind of came across as someone who forgot the big picture. If the episode was about trust, and that was the big message at the end, I'm not sure if it was portrayed very well.

I just look at other Vortas in the series, and think they were so much better. Eris was a great manipulator. The guy from The Search was pretty cool too other than maybe a small bit of irrelevance. Wayoun was awesome, and even Keevan pretty much got what he wanted. Kilana might be hot, but uncharacteristically naive.

 

[Pemmer Harge]

Nah, the worst was Weyoun - the guy pretty much lost the war single-handedly by being a jerk to the Cardassians for no obvious reason.

 

[The Boy Who Cried Worf]

She can't be the worst! She introduced Vorta cleavage!

 

[tomalak301]

She can't be the worst! She introduced Vorta cleavage!

Cleavage doesn't translate well to intelligence though.

 

[Joeman]

On a side note, did anyone else find Iggy Pop's portrayal of a Vorta really "uncomfortable"? I'm going to guess most people loved it, but I thought his acting was terrible and didn't work well at all for the most part.

 

[Admiral Shran]

On a side note, did anyone else find Iggy Pop's portrayal of a Vorta really "uncomfortable"? I'm going to guess most people loved it, but I thought his acting was terrible and didn't work well at all for the most part.

Going to have to disagree with you. I thought Iggy Pop did a great job.

As for Kilana, I think she just tried the wrong approach with Sisko when they first met. She tried to flirt with him and to get to him that way. She should have know that Sisko wouldn't be interested, so it was a bad move. The situation was then unsalvageable.

 

[Joeman]

On a side note, did anyone else find Iggy Pop's portrayal of a Vorta really "uncomfortable"? I'm going to guess most people loved it, but I thought his acting was terrible and didn't work well at all for the most part.

Going to have to disagree with you. I thought Iggy Pop did a great job.

If 100 DS9 fans were surveyed, I'm sure at least 98 of them would agree with you.

Some of Weyoun's decisions could certainly be questioned. Often times he seemed a bit too soft to me. I loved the character (as I do just about any character Combs plays), but I would not want him running my evil conquering war machine.

 

[Photon]

Last night I was watching "The Ship" (When was the last time this episode was discussed? ), and something occurred to me. If the Vorta are so good at negotiating skills and stuff like that, did Kilana push Negotiating back about 100 years or so? I mean the Jem'Hadar under her destroy the runabout from orbit and then she comes down and asks Sisko to trust her? And Sisko himself at the end kind of came across as someone who forgot the big picture. If the episode was about trust, and that was the big message at the end, I'm not sure if it was portrayed very well.

I just look at other Vortas in the series, and think they were so much better. Eris was a great manipulator. The guy from The Search was pretty cool too other than maybe a small bit of irrelevance. Wayoun was awesome, and even Keevan pretty much got what he wanted. Kilana might be hot, but uncharacteristically naive.

No Sisko wanted to hit it. Snivilin' Keevan was the worst

 

[Jono]

Weyoun Six was the worst Vorta ever, he tried to betray the Founders by giving himself over to the enemy and offering to share Dominion secrets.

 

[DevilEyes]

Weyoun Six was the worst Vorta ever, he tried to betray the Founders by giving himself over to the enemy and offering to share Dominion secrets.

Maybe he was the worst from the Founders' point of view - or not, since he did less damage to them than Weyouns 5 and 7 did through their arrogance and incompetence. But Weyoun 6 did what he did out of conviction, rather than stupidity, like the above mentioned Weyoun 5 and 7, who managed to antagonize Damar/Cardassians for no good reasons and provoke the Cardassian rebellion.

 

[Rush Limborg]

On a side note, did anyone else find Iggy Pop's portrayal of a Vorta really "uncomfortable"? I'm going to guess most people loved it, but I thought his acting was terrible and didn't work well at all for the most part.

Going to have to disagree with you. I thought Iggy Pop did a great job.

Yeah, he was pretty cool, I must day. He played Yelgrun as "one awesome dude, who you still know could have your hide." Amost Jack-Nicholsonian--albeit not at "subtle and creepy" as Jack.

As for Kilana, I think she just tried the wrong approach with Sisko when they first met. She tried to flirt with him and to get to him that way. She should have know that Sisko wouldn't be interested, so it was a bad move. The situation was then unsalvageable.

Yuppers. And I think she was trying to go the "cute, innocent, vulnerable" route, with her attitude of inexperience and slight "Oh, my gosh...this is an honor, Captain." She was probably planning on his thinking she was too green (and cute) to want anything bad.

Maybe she'd researched a bit too much on James T. Kirk....

Some of Weyoun's decisions could certainly be questioned. Often times he seemed a bit too soft to me. I loved the character (as I do just about any character Combs plays), but I would not want him running my evil conquering war machine.

ITA. I wonder what the F.C. was thinking, putting him in charge. Makes me think even more that had she been in complete control of her metal faculties--she would have taken a more decisive role in the war effort--and it would have gone better for their side....

 

[ProtoAvatar]

Kilana's mistake was blowing up the runabout. In doing so, she limited her options for no gain.
Sice that moment, she couldn't have gained Sisko's trust no matter what strategy she used.

 

[Navaros]

Kilana was an awesome Vorta, and extremely well-played.

Worst Vorta ever is either Iggy Pop, or the obese Vorta from Honor Among Thieves and a few other episodes. Those 'actors' were horrendous, and conveyed no qualities that a Vorta is supposed to have.

 

[Joeman]

Worst Vorta ever is either Iggy Pop, or the obese Vorta from Honor Among Thieves and a few other episodes. Those 'actors' were horrendous, and conveyed no qualities that a Vorta is supposed to have.

Wow. At least someone out there saw Iggy Pop the way I did. It also seemed to me like so much of a novelty having him in the role that I actually found it distracting.

 

[Rush Limborg]

C'mon. You just have to love his "complete coolness" in the part--even if it's not what we'd expect from a Vorta.

And of course, in the very end, as Keevan-stine waddles over, Yelgrun has on his face the most epic "W-T-" look EVER!

 

[DevilEyes]

What qualities are the Vorta supposed to have? Come to think of it, even though Weyoun is a fun and entertaining character, isn't he (i.e. aren't they) very bad at what they're supposed to do? Eris was a good manipulator, but Weyouns were far too slimy and annoying to effectively manipulate people, or even be a successful diplomat. Instead they managed to piss people off. Just look at their history: Weyoun 4 irritated both DS9 crew and the Jem'Hadar, and even got murdered by one of them; Weyoun 5 provoked Worf to kill him, and both he and Weyoun 7 managed to alienate Damar until he started the rebellion. The only Weyoun we haven't seen irritate people is the "defective" defector, and we only saw him interact with Odo so it's hard to judge his day-to-day behavior to others who aren't "gods".

 

[Navaros]

What qualities are the Vorta supposed to have? Come to think of it, even though Weyoun is a fun and entertaining character, isn't he (i.e. aren't they) very bad at what they're supposed to do"

Vorta are supposed to be charming, articulate, suave, witty, intelligent etc. etc. Weyoun is all of those things and more. Iggy Pop and the obese Vorta were like cardboard cutouts; they had no personality or Vorta traits whatsoever.

I must admit that the writers fubared Weyoun a bit by having him do stupid things like mistreat Cardassians while the war was on, and killing him in his debut because at the time he was only intended to appear once.

However, you are neglecting all of Weyouns' successes, such as creating a vast empire largely via diplomacy rather than starting wars as the first option (like foolish leaders in our real world do).

Heck, Weyoun was on the verge of conquering Bajor via diplomacy, because Kira was not as smart as Weyoun. It took the Bajoran woman to hang herself on the promenade to show Kira that Weyoun made Kira into his pawn and was taking over Bajor. Likewise, Weyoun made a fool out of Kira with his superior intellect when she tried to negotiate for Rom's release. Point is, despite Weyoun's flaws, he is still way better than the second star/'hero' of the show, Kira.

 

[tomalak301]

What qualities are the Vorta supposed to have? Come to think of it, even though Weyoun is a fun and entertaining character, isn't he (i.e. aren't they) very bad at what they're supposed to do? Eris was a good manipulator, but Weyouns were far too slimy and annoying to effectively manipulate people, or even be a successful diplomat. Instead they managed to piss people off. Just look at their history: Weyoun 4 irritated both DS9 crew and the Jem'Hadar, and even got murdered by one of them; Weyoun 5 provoked Worf to kill him, and both he and Weyoun 7 managed to alienate Damar until he started the rebellion. The only Weyoun we haven't seen irritate people is the "defective" defector, and we only saw him interact with Odo so it's hard to judge his day-to-day behavior to others who aren't "gods".

I always saw the Vorta as kind of the Peaceful Jem'Hadar. They come down, negotiate all that good stuff, and hopefully put on a good face for the Dominion. If all else fails, send in the troops.

 

[Nightdiamond]

The Vorta always seemed to underestimate the enemy, and leave out a small detail that ended up ruining their entire plan or plans.

Like when Eris had managed to convince the crew that she was on their side, until Quark discovered there was nothing inside the collar that was supposed to suppress her telepathic powers, if she really had any.

They didn't bother to put anything in it.

Yelgrun actually agreed to send all his soldiers away and ended up being taken prisoner himself.

Weyoun went above and beyond the call of duty at times, but he couldn't do it without alienating everyone associated with him;

His own Jem Hadar shot him, Dukat hated him, Damar had him murdered, The Founder was going to eliminate him and have him replaced.

I think Gamma Quadrant psychology was supposed to be different than Alpha Quadrant psychology.

 

[DevilEyes]

Heck, Weyoun was on the verge of conquering Bajor via diplomacy, because Kira was not as smart as Weyoun. It took the Bajoran woman to hang herself on the promenade to show Kira that Weyoun made Kira into his pawn and was taking over Bajor. Likewise, Weyoun made a fool out of Kira with his superior intellect when she tried to negotiate for Rom's release. Point is, despite Weyoun's flaws, he is still way better than the second star/'hero' of the show, Kira.

Uh... for starters, Kira is neither a diplomat nor the prime minister of Bajor, it's not like she signed the treaty with the Dominion. It's not like she thought that the Dominion occupation was so wonderful, or that Weyoun's charm or negotiating skills swayed her to the Dominion's side. She just had to obey her orders and work under the Dominion occupation, despite being uncomfortable with it. The suicide of the vedek only pushed her to make the decision and realize that she has become something similar to the collaborators she always despised, and that she had to fight against the occupation instead.