A Niner Watches Babylon 5 (NO spoilers, please)

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by TheGodBen, Jan 24, 2010.

  1. Truth_Seeker

    Truth_Seeker Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2009
    Location:
    Sofia, Bulgaria
    Here's a little mystery for TGB - try to remember where have you seen the "flying discotheque" before? :)
     
  2. Myasishchev

    Myasishchev Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2009
    Location:
    America after the rain
    What I wonder is if you can get death of personality by request, without a criminal conviction. I'd suspect a lot of people would actually go for it, especially a pared down version.

    Kind of like how the neural neutralizer in Star Trek's "Dagger of the Mind" would have actually made a great medical tool, except it was being run by a crazy person.
     
  3. Reverend

    Reverend Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2002
    Location:
    UK
    Actually, the episode is careful to leave both doors open so it only asks the question without providing the answer. Remember that that Centauri teep said that the brain has a lot of redundancy and that the visions were not telepathic projections, but Charles Dexter's actual memories.

    So you can choose to believe it either way. On the one hand if Edward still has the soul (or whatever you want to call it) then it's about repentance. On the other hand if Edward is a different person then it's about paying for the sins of another. Personally I think the writer's position is revealed through the title he chose. Remember, according to Christian belief, Christ didn't wait in Gethsemane because he knew he was guilty and deserved what was coming.
     
  4. sidious618

    sidious618 Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2005
    Location:
    sidious618
    :guffaw: Brilliant!
     
  5. Kegg

    Kegg Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2009
    Location:
    Ireland.
    I didn't like how the situation with the Walkers played out. G'Kar once said the gulf between them and us was like us and ants; but TheGodBen is right, we can just do a bit of petty armtwisting and hey presto, they're at our beck and call? Even if they're snobbish elites... then they're now just snobbish elites. They're not all so distant or majestic anymore, just extremely old coots with inflated self-importance. Either way it undermines one of my favourite G'Kar speeches.
     
  6. stonester1

    stonester1 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2004
    I don't get the assumption that being an ancient, extremely advanced alien race would mean that you have no more cares, no more concerns, no more grudges, especially with peers?

    Ivanova got lucky, found a sore spot, pressed it.

    I'm cool with that.
     
  7. Reverend

    Reverend Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2002
    Location:
    UK
    Plus of course it was only 1000 years since the last war when they and the others walked openly, so by their standards and perception of time it's hardly as if they were total shut-ins until Ivanova showed up.

    To me their reaction seamed more like a tiresome *sigh* "oh all right FINE, if you're going to cry about it! Bloody kids." Than really falling for any ploy.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2010
  8. I also see it a bit like the Lumati situation: a bad bit of writing surrounding the character of Ivanova, that the audience has to rationalize for it to make one whit of sense. Coupled with Claudia Christian's mediocre imo acting ability, it all adds up to Ivanova being one of my least favorite characters. I'd attribute it to JMS trying a little to hard to make Ivanova seem really competent.
     
  9. Pilot Ace

    Pilot Ace Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2002
    Location:
    Arizona, USA
    I thought that was the whole point?

    The perception of the ancients changes from reverence to realizing that they're not all that better, knowledgeable, etc. than us. Maybe that they're even worse because they've allowed themselves to get especially arrogant.

    That's how I always took it, at least.
     
  10. Fist McStrongpunch

    Fist McStrongpunch Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2003
    Location:
    Milwaukeeish
    1000 years since the last war against the Shadows. 10,000 years since the lat Great War, the last time the First Ones walked openly.
     
  11. Reverend

    Reverend Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2002
    Location:
    UK
    Yes and no. The last of the First Ones (the ones that didn't disappear off into the inter galactic void) did make an appearance in the last Shadow War, but yes you're right, before that they'd been keeping to themselves for 9000 years since the others ran off. Still, the point remains valid, 10,000 years isn't that long a time for a race that peeked over a million years ago.
     
  12. chrisspringob

    chrisspringob Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2003
    Location:
    North Ryde, NSW
    JMS had a thing for events being spaced out by a number of years that's a nice round power of 10. 10 years after the Earth-Minbari War, 1000 years since the last Shadow War, 10,000 years since the Shadow War before that, etc. Granted, they're presumably rounding in many of those cases, but there's never something that happened 600 years ago or 8000 years ago, etc. This comes up again later in the series as well.
     
  13. Aeon

    Aeon Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2010
    Location:
    Finland
    Exactly.
     
  14. Forbin

    Forbin Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2001
    Location:
    I said out, dammit!
  15. Deranged Nasat

    Deranged Nasat Vice Admiral Admiral

    Watch your language! ;)
     
  16. Neroon

    Neroon Mod of Balance Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2000
    Location:
    On my ship the Rocinante
    For great justice!
     
  17. JoeD80

    JoeD80 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2008
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    To say it requires audience rationalization is an odd statement, because this is Joe's created Universe so it has Joe's rules; and under Joe's rules all the races can be arrogant regardless of how advanced they are.
     
  18. Vestboy

    Vestboy Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2001
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    "Minbari do not lie. We do, however, often round our numbers up."
     
  19. Lindley

    Lindley Moderator with a Soul Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2001
    Location:
    Bonney Lake, WA
    Q: How many Minbari does it take to screw in a lightbulb?
    Human answer: None. They always surrender right before they finish, and they never tell you why.
    Minbari answer: Minbari lightbulbs use a superior technology with an extensive life. No Minbari has had to change a lightbulb since the Dark Times a thousand years ago....
     
  20. Reverend

    Reverend Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2002
    Location:
    UK
    Sure there is. The first of the original jump gates were built "8000 years ago", about "500 years ago" Varn became the guardian of the great machine and...

    ...if memory serves, the Hyach finished off the Hyach-do about "820 years ago".

    Sadly, arrogance has never been exclusively a Human trait. ;)