Yeah, deleted scenes don't count. Besides, the one that really made Kirk look bad was the one where he was trying to apologize to Gaila for using her, not realizing that he was speaking to the wrong Orion woman.
Edited to add : Beaten to the punch!
Kirk; not a 'good' guy?
- Thread starter RobertScorpio
- Start date
Yeah, deleted scenes don't count. Besides, the one that really made Kirk look bad was the one where he was trying to apologize to Gaila for using her, not realizing that he was speaking to the wrong Orion woman.
Edited to add : Beaten to the punch!
Pine's Kirk is a spot-on Gary Mitchell.
RobertScorpio
Pariah
I have no issue with PINE's Kirk at all. The movie was great, and he was great. And my daughter/friends that he was a hunk and was hip..DING DING...and that was the whole reason he was how he was.
Rob
Pine is a handsome and charming fellow, that's for sure, and my problems with his Kirk (many of them easily explained by the fact that he grew up without the influence of George Kirk, whom the movie presents--in his few minutes of screen time--as possessing all those other qualities TOS's Jim Kirk had but this movie's version seems to lack) stem more from the writing than his acting.
I'm not saying that TOS's Kirk didn't have a roguish side, only that it was counter-balanced by a seriousness and devotion to duty that we haven't yet seen in this new incarnation. Who knows? Maybe in the sequel.
I'm not saying that TOS's Kirk didn't have a roguish side, only that it was counter-balanced by a seriousness and devotion to duty that we haven't yet seen in this new incarnation. Who knows? Maybe in the sequel.
RobertScorpio
Pariah
No one can argue with your points. But we have to remember this is a movie series. They might get three or four movies out of this current run. They don't have time for Kirk to do all this maturing (or Spock for that matter). So everyone's arc has to be sped up. So that is why I am accepting anythting they do.
The movie was a big hit and made the franchise hip; and that was the most important accomplishment they could have hoped for.
Rob
We didn't. It's no different than having to retell Batman or Superman's origin really. Yeah, yeah, yeah, get on with the story. No one cares to see Kirk as a Punk. We want to see Kirk as the starship captain who gets it done.
Yup for me; but there are a whole lot of people who know literally nothing about Trek. So I can see the producers' point. They weren't making a film so much as setting up the sequels.
Let's see.
Kirk was promiscuous. Certainly at the time the show aired that was a bit scandalous. But his partners were always willing, and never under his command.
Kirk was definitely not a fan of rules. He tended to do what he believed to be right, regardless of what the rules said. However, as the saying goes "there is no perfume like success.": Kirk generally made the right call. He was the kind of guy who kept doing the kind of thing for which you had to either arrest him or give him a medal. I bet that's how he wound up as a starship Captain.
The "married to his ship" thing came through loud and clear: I think if Kirk could have had sex with the Enterprise he would have spent a lot less time chasing women.
IMO, Kirk's biggest flaw was an obsessive need to be totally honest about where he was from with someone he was planning to sleep with: before he'll take you to bed, he's going to explain that he has traveled here from a distant star, even if the girl apparently has no idea that the lights in the sky are other suns, about which other worlds might orbit. (I'm thinking of "The Gamesters of Triskellion", although now that I say it I'm curious about "A Private Little War", where Kirk has obviously told his buddy Tyree things he shouldn't have.)
The Kobayashi Maru as presented in Wrath of Khan was pretty much classic Kirk: he hacked the simulator and changed the scenario, and faced with the question of how to reprimand and punish him for this,they decide to give him an award for having demonstrated "original thinking".
Kirk was promiscuous. Certainly at the time the show aired that was a bit scandalous. But his partners were always willing, and never under his command.
Kirk was definitely not a fan of rules. He tended to do what he believed to be right, regardless of what the rules said. However, as the saying goes "there is no perfume like success.": Kirk generally made the right call. He was the kind of guy who kept doing the kind of thing for which you had to either arrest him or give him a medal. I bet that's how he wound up as a starship Captain.
The "married to his ship" thing came through loud and clear: I think if Kirk could have had sex with the Enterprise he would have spent a lot less time chasing women.
IMO, Kirk's biggest flaw was an obsessive need to be totally honest about where he was from with someone he was planning to sleep with: before he'll take you to bed, he's going to explain that he has traveled here from a distant star, even if the girl apparently has no idea that the lights in the sky are other suns, about which other worlds might orbit. (I'm thinking of "The Gamesters of Triskellion", although now that I say it I'm curious about "A Private Little War", where Kirk has obviously told his buddy Tyree things he shouldn't have.)
The Kobayashi Maru as presented in Wrath of Khan was pretty much classic Kirk: he hacked the simulator and changed the scenario, and faced with the question of how to reprimand and punish him for this,they decide to give him an award for having demonstrated "original thinking".
RobertScorpio
Pariah
Let's see.
Kirk was promiscuous. Certainly at the time the show aired that was a bit scandalous. But his partners were always willing, and never under his command.
Kirk was definitely not a fan of rules. He tended to do what he believed to be right, regardless of what the rules said. However, as the saying goes "there is no perfume like success.": Kirk generally made the right call. He was the kind of guy who kept doing the kind of thing for which you had to either arrest him or give him a medal. I bet that's how he wound up as a starship Captain.
The "married to his ship" thing came through loud and clear: I think if Kirk could have had sex with the Enterprise he would have spent a lot less time chasing women.
IMO, Kirk's biggest flaw was an obsessive need to be totally honest about where he was from with someone he was planning to sleep with: before he'll take you to bed, he's going to explain that he has traveled here from a distant star, even if the girl apparently has no idea that the lights in the sky are other suns, about which other worlds might orbit. (I'm thinking of "The Gamesters of Triskellion", although now that I say it I'm curious about "A Private Little War", where Kirk has obviously told his buddy Tyree things he shouldn't have.)
The Kobayashi Maru as presented in Wrath of Khan was pretty much classic Kirk: he hacked the simulator and changed the scenario, and faced with the question of how to reprimand and punish him for this,they decide to give him an award for having demonstrated "original thinking".
All true...But many people from my era looked up to Kirk. We're we wrong for doing so? He was ultimately a good guy wasn't he?
Now...Dexter???
Rob
Whay would we (I'm of that generation) be wrong to admire Kirk? He was created to appeal to our generation.Let's see.
Kirk was promiscuous. Certainly at the time the show aired that was a bit scandalous. But his partners were always willing, and never under his command.
Kirk was definitely not a fan of rules. He tended to do what he believed to be right, regardless of what the rules said. However, as the saying goes "there is no perfume like success.": Kirk generally made the right call. He was the kind of guy who kept doing the kind of thing for which you had to either arrest him or give him a medal. I bet that's how he wound up as a starship Captain.
The "married to his ship" thing came through loud and clear: I think if Kirk could have had sex with the Enterprise he would have spent a lot less time chasing women.
IMO, Kirk's biggest flaw was an obsessive need to be totally honest about where he was from with someone he was planning to sleep with: before he'll take you to bed, he's going to explain that he has traveled here from a distant star, even if the girl apparently has no idea that the lights in the sky are other suns, about which other worlds might orbit. (I'm thinking of "The Gamesters of Triskellion", although now that I say it I'm curious about "A Private Little War", where Kirk has obviously told his buddy Tyree things he shouldn't have.)
The Kobayashi Maru as presented in Wrath of Khan was pretty much classic Kirk: he hacked the simulator and changed the scenario, and faced with the question of how to reprimand and punish him for this,they decide to give him an award for having demonstrated "original thinking".
All true...But many people from my era looked up to Kirk. We're we wrong for doing so? He was ultimately a good guy wasn't he?
Now...Dexter???
Rob
Well some people are fond of revising history or reinterpreting it. America drops the A-bomb to end the war in the Pacific quickly and later generations label them as monsters. Women wore miniskirts as a form of expressing female emancipation and sexual freedom and later generations call it sexist. Stalin was a monster, but hey he defeated Hitler so Stalin must actually be one of the good guys. And he didn't really kill that many people did he?
Some people wrap gerbils in duct tape and stick them up their asses. Some people think it's great fun to stick a gun loaded with a single bullet in their mouth and pull the trigger. Some people like to strangle themselves while they masturbate.
People are stupid.
*Yawn* He'll have to do better than that.
RobertScorpio
Pariah
*Yawn* He'll have to do better than that.
I was wondering if Richard Gere posted on this board. Now, at last, I know!
Rob
Why do today's audiences need an origin story? We didn't get one and we caught on pretty quick.
This has been something that goes along with turning Trek into some Star Warsian Epic Saga, by saying "every legend has a beginning" and making it a grand design of fate to get these people all in one place. Yet, as far as I was concerned, Kirk worked his way up to command of the Enterprise, and that's when he met everyone. Over the course of their missions, living together, relying on each other, they formed their connections. You know, like real life.
An "origin" that made sense would be Kirk's first mission as Captain of the Enterprise, well out of the academy and in his early 30's. And then watch them all meet each other and start to form relationships. In that scenario, including Chekov would make sense since he could be in a pre-navigator post. And, honestly, the overall plot of the movie wouldn't need to be all that different. But having them all know each other back in the academy is like Flintstone Kids (hey, Dino shouldn't even be born yet!).
At the very least, plot it as a trilogy and have certain introductions come later. Why did EVERY character (except Janice Rand) have to be shoehorned in? Having Kirk get command of the Enterprise in the second movie wouldn't have killed the box office. Keep the hot cast, shaky cam, and lens flares, and it's all good.
Ah…whatever. It was a fun movie.
RobertScorpio
Pariah
Well..it worked. They did an origin story because, first off, this is a new movie series and they want to show them at the start...plus, we never got a canon origin story the first time around; now, in this new JJverse,we do.
The movie worked, and it worked great as a starting off point.
Rob
