Watching Season 5 of Babylon 5 again...

[stonester1]

Some say this is a "weak" season. I think those who say that aren't giving the season a fair shake. Sure, the "big" story is mostly over, but the B5 universe definitely is not, as this season demonstrates. A new government being established, the new order sorting itself out, new challenges and old threats...

Heck, "The Very Long Night of Londo Mollari", "A View From The Gallery", and "Day of the Dead" alone are enough to buoy along the first half of season 5 and there is much more besides. And then there's the second half, which, IMO, is as strong as anything B5 has offered, as far as big stories go.

For me, season 5 of Babylon 5 ROCKS, and I'm glad we got it.

Agree? Disagree?

 

[D Man]

I agree. Sure, Byron is pretty annoying, but I don't think he's the Worst Character Ever or anything like that. I liked the last arc involving the Centauri, and I really appreciated how JMS took the time to wind the show down instead of some big ramp-up for a Final Battle, which in the context of Bab5 wouldn't have fit nearly as well as what we got. The final salute in "Objects at [forget which one]" is borderline schmaltzy, but the characters earned it.

I think of the 5th season kind of like I think of TNG's 7th season where it's certainly a step down overall from what's come before, but there are still some wonderful episodes, my favorite characters are still having wacky adventures, and the finales are terrific.

 

[StarshipDefiant]

Season 5 had some pretty good stuff, it continued some arcs seen throughout the series, it continued on to wrap up some arcs and...began some arcs. This is the core problem with season 5, it basically, is a "new" season 1 in some regards, it began some things that we never got to see continued/resolved. That, in hindsight, is probably why season 5 is considered to be so weak. This in turn, effects some of the characters such as Byron, who would have had a lasting effect on things should they have continued in some form or another. Tracy Scroggin's character is kind of the same way, had the same curse Ezri Dax had, only a full season for character development, simply because the series was coming to an end.

Overall, there were some good things of the season, some bad, I am sure one can say that about any of the series seasons. Again, it'd all be about how you'd consider it, and view it, which I do so as somewhat weak, but due to the reasons I mentioned above. Like I said, it had some great episodes and some interesting moments (I'd really have loved to see Lochlay's duggie past expanded), but it didn't get to properly place itselt into the mythos. A shame.

 

[RandyS]

Season 5 was just as good as the rest of the show, except for Byron. That clown should have been spaced.

Twice.

 

[Ensign_Redshirt]

Season 5 is "weak" in the sense that it's not as good as Season 3 or Season 4.

The Telepath arc could have been better, but the Centauri arc makes it up for it. All in all, Season 5 is roughly on par with Season 2... it's debatable whether it's better or worse than the 2nd season though.

 

[clint g]

You know, it's funny that you made this thread because I was feeling the same way about the first season when I finished watching it this morning. Everyone gives the first season a hard time but while watching it I could only pick out 1 episode I really disliked. When I get to re-watching season 5 latter on I can feel myself feeling the same exact way.

 

[D Man]

I forgot about the Lochley thing...I'd rank her among the weakest regular B5 characters, no question. She's certainly better performed than Talia and does more than poor ol' Keffer, but I can never shake the feeling that she's just...dull. She never got anywhere close to being able to feel Ivanova's shoes, and I'd call her character a general knock against the last season as a whole. The extremely lame and blatantly tacked-on notion of her being married to Sheridan was really dumb, too. A ret-con for the sake of...basically nothing, other than Sheridan and Delenn not speaking for a bit.

 

[Jan]

I like season 5 a lot. Yes, it's uneven since so much was wrapped up in season 4, but I loved the experimental episodes (including 'Deconstruction' with that), loved the Centauri arc and liked Lochley a whole lot better than I ever liked Ivanova.

Jan

 

[RoJoHen]

The Telepath arc could have been better, but the Centauri arc makes it up for it.

This sums it up for me. The Centauri arc at the end is one of my favorite parts of the entire show.

 

[Hyperspace05]

I just can't get over Byron, I just can't.

The next time I watch season 5 I'll just have to skip the telepath episodes and save myself the frustration. Season 5 has some great stuff ("The Fall of Centauri Prime" being a top-10 episode), but the Byron crap is probably the low point of B5.

 

[Lindley]

The extremely lame and blatantly tacked-on notion of her being married to Sheridan was really dumb, too. A ret-con for the sake of...basically nothing, other than Sheridan and Delenn not speaking for a bit.

It does mean that Sheridan's three wives were worker, warrior, and religious.......too bad JMS admitted he didn't think of that until it was pointed out to him.

 

[Joe Washington]

In my opinion, Season 5 wasn't a complete disaster. I wasn't a fan of the Byron character, Captain Lochley, or the way they were kind of using Season 5 as the stage for some kind of spin-off but there were some things that I did like:

1. Garibaldi's drinking storyline: we may not have seen much of the consequences of his actions from last season on his friends that season but his relapse shows at least he's tormented by them and that Bester made him do it aganist his will. That's good enough for me.
2. The resolution of Londo's arc: we knew this day would come. Making it even more tragic in a Shakespearan sense. Watching how Londo's arc ended in heartbreak makes me miss Dollhouse had more time to show more of its similiar arc involving Topher.
3. The series finale: Sleeping in Light is still one of my favorite series finales. It may not have been action-packed or ended in a big bloodbath but it wasn't supposed to. It was supposed to be quiet and contemplative. It was supposed to revolve around what was always the heart of the show: the characters. And JMS, despite his flaws, did an excellent job in that department.

 

[Harvey]

That little bit of trivia hardly makes the story point worth having. Nothing comes of it besides some quickly forgotten drama between Delenn and John, which is, frankly soap opera.

EDIT: Joe hits upon all the bright spots of the season.

 

[D Man]

The extremely lame and blatantly tacked-on notion of her being married to Sheridan was really dumb, too. A ret-con for the sake of...basically nothing, other than Sheridan and Delenn not speaking for a bit.

It does mean that Sheridan's three wives were worker, warrior, and religious.......too bad JMS admitted he didn't think of that until it was pointed out to him.

Haha, yeah I remember reading that on Lurker's Guide or somewhere thereabouts. That would almost be an interesting point if it meant something to Sheridan as a character, but I think ultimately it doesn't mean anything at all. That JMS didn't intend it certainly doesn't help, either . That little storyline goes down as one of the more pointless bits from B5, which is a shame. I think Lochley had potential, but in the end there just wasn't enough time to do anything interesting with her.

(Her hologram in the soul hunter movie was...fun . But I think her role in the Lost Tales was awful, and mainly just her talking to herself. Oh well.)

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

...liked Lochley a whole lot better than I ever liked Ivanova.

Me too, and I also preferred Tracey Scoggins over Claudia Christian. Of course, I've liked Scoggins since Lois and Clark.

 

[Orac Zen]

Season 5 is "weak" in the sense that it's not as good as Season 3 or Season 4.

The Telepath arc could have been better, but the Centauri arc makes it up for it. All in all, Season 5 is roughly on par with Season 2...

This.

To the extent that it's possible to loathe a fictional character, I loathe Byron. I loathe that Lyta willingly turned into his creature without a murmur. I loathe his smug self-righteousness. I loathe his arrogance, and I despise his imbecilic insistence that "mundane" humans have to make up for the actions of the Vorlons (pure WTFery, IMO). I loathe everything about him, and he's the prime reason I don't care as much for season 5 as I otherwise would.

Anything would have been a comedown from seasons 3 and 4, but there's great stuff in S5 too. The eps from "And All My Dreams, Torn Asunder" onward are as good as almost anything the show ever did. Lochley was a terrific character - not Ivanova class, but not horribly unwatchable either (my only issue with her is the Sheridan's-ex aspect, actually). And of course there's the magnificence that is "Sleeping in Light".

Damn, I need to find time to rewatch B5. It's been too long.

 

[Kegg]

Byron is part Jesus, part David Koresh, and doesn't even remotely resemble his namesake in any interesting way. Pity, that.

and "Day of the Dead" alone

This is a liked episode generally? Because I loathe it. Off the top of my head can't think of a B5 episode I hate more in all honesty. Even working on the internal logic of the episode it just makes no sense at all (that is, the characters do not react in ways that are plausible - why the hell doesn't anyone just point blank ask the Brecari ex post facto what was going on? Hmm? Well? No?), and that comic troupe are just awful. I remember I had to swear off season five for a long time after that.

But that said, yeah, it's mostly one of those seasons which can be mostly faulted for not reaching the empyrean heights of that which came before, though I I'd put it abehind season two (the Narn-Centauri war is one of my favourite arcs in the whole damn series.)

 

[stonester1]

I don't know about favored amongst fandom (though I haven't heard widespread complaints against it). It's one of MY favorites out of the entire series.

As for asking the Brakiri what was going on, what would be the point? They already answered. It's the "Day of the Dead".

If you are expecting some kind of Trek-esque technobabble pseudo explanation, don't need one. JMS clearly established that he doesn't need to do that, that not everything that happens in the B5U is subject to that, that sometimes, the characters simply "don't know". Like in real life, something strange has just happened which defies understanding.

That's good enough.

 

[Kegg]

If you are expecting some kind of Trek-esque technobabble pseudo explanation, don't need one.

We got one, but it was just nonsense. It was maybe gas or memory retrieval or telepaths. Thing is, if it's any of those things, who did it? Answer: The Brecari. So they're able to transport a chunk of B5 to their homeworld and use this powerful memory tech; clearly we've understimated these guys, or something. But since nobody was hurt we've decided not to get a straight answer from these guys. The more I think about it the less sense it makes; the rational responses seem decidedly half-assed (high IQ boys, indeed).

Like in real life, something strange has just happened which defies understanding.

There's a difference between a mystery that sounds like an ineffable mystery and one that sounds like shoddy writing. This is the latter. B5 had done many good examples of the former; though interestingly those actually tended to get answered eventually.

 

[stonester1]

We got one, but it was just nonsense. It was maybe gas or memory retrieval or telepaths. Thing is, if it's any of those things, who did it? Answer: The Brecari.

The bottom line, everyone was guessing, including you. But JMS was content to just leave everyone guessing, which is aces in my book.

There's a difference between a mystery that sounds like an ineffable mystery and one that sounds like shoddy writing. This is the latter.

Your opinion. I thoroughly enjoyed it.