Re: Its Only a Paper Moon - one of DS9's best, and almost didn't get m
Not as long as there are such things as contracts and money involved.
Not as long as there are such things as contracts and money involved.
Its Only a Paper Moon - one of DS9's best, and almost didn't get made
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Re: Its Only a Paper Moon - one of DS9's best, and almost didn't get m
I'm another one who loves this episode and never even noticed that it revolves around around two non-principles. The reoccurring characters were indeed a major strength of DS9. It's amazing how all of the other Treks seemed to have trouble fully utilizing all of the main characters while DS9 utilized the mains + nearly two dozen more!
I'm another one who loves this episode and never even noticed that it revolves around around two non-principles. The reoccurring characters were indeed a major strength of DS9. It's amazing how all of the other Treks seemed to have trouble fully utilizing all of the main characters while DS9 utilized the mains + nearly two dozen more!
Re: Its Only a Paper Moon - one of DS9's best, and almost didn't get m
I totally agree, it never occured to me that these were two guest stars and even now it doesn't matter. I think any of the secondary cast could carry an entire episode. Thats pretty rare in Television then and now but it's what made DS9 so special.
I totally agree, it never occured to me that these were two guest stars and even now it doesn't matter. I think any of the secondary cast could carry an entire episode. Thats pretty rare in Television then and now but it's what made DS9 so special.
Re: Its Only a Paper Moon - one of DS9's best, and almost didn't get m
I've always thought that if I had to assign one area where DS9 excelled above any other show it was in casting the right actor for the role. There are so many instances where the main and guest casts absolutely nailed their role. Often, an actor may be well-suited for a particular role but a very poor choice for another. DS9 seemed to get it right 9 out of 10 times. There were so many great reoccurring characters and that went a long way toward making a rich and believable universe.
I've always thought that if I had to assign one area where DS9 excelled above any other show it was in casting the right actor for the role. There are so many instances where the main and guest casts absolutely nailed their role. Often, an actor may be well-suited for a particular role but a very poor choice for another. DS9 seemed to get it right 9 out of 10 times. There were so many great reoccurring characters and that went a long way toward making a rich and believable universe.
Re: Its Only a Paper Moon - one of DS9's best, and almost didn't get m
It works because everyone has had that moment where they are emotionally at their proverbial ropes end. To me that moment is probably the most honest in the entire run of the series.
It works because everyone has had that moment where they are emotionally at their proverbial ropes end. To me that moment is probably the most honest in the entire run of the series.
Re: Its Only a Paper Moon - one of DS9's best, and almost didn't get m
Agreed. In fact even before he breaks down, but when he says: "When the war started, I wasn't happy... but I was eager." The way he says it... it's heartbreaking.
Agreed. In fact even before he breaks down, but when he says: "When the war started, I wasn't happy... but I was eager." The way he says it... it's heartbreaking.
Re: Its Only a Paper Moon - one of DS9's best, and almost didn't get m
Not to mention Preemptive Strike
Not to mention Preemptive Strike
Re: Its Only a Paper Moon - one of DS9's best, and almost didn't get m
TNG also did it with Lower Decks, only even with never before seen characters with the exception of Sito's appearance in First Duty.
IOaPM is a great episode. And I didn't think about this either, because at this point I considered Nog and Garak etc recurring characters in name only.
TNG also did it with Lower Decks, only even with never before seen characters with the exception of Sito's appearance in First Duty.
IOaPM is a great episode. And I didn't think about this either, because at this point I considered Nog and Garak etc recurring characters in name only.
Re: Its Only a Paper Moon - one of DS9's best, and almost didn't get m
Really adds to the feelings you left with the battle of ar558 for me.
I love the way Vic evoles because his program doesn't get turned off. He becomes a holo-addicted hologram and Ezri calls him out on it. Classic moment and great acting by Vic.
Really adds to the feelings you left with the battle of ar558 for me.
I love the way Vic evoles because his program doesn't get turned off. He becomes a holo-addicted hologram and Ezri calls him out on it. Classic moment and great acting by Vic.
Re: Its Only a Paper Moon - one of DS9's best, and almost didn't get m
Wasn't Alyssa Ogawa in that episode?
Wasn't Alyssa Ogawa in that episode?
Re: Its Only a Paper Moon - one of DS9's best, and almost didn't get m
*Well, I think Colm Meaney may not have been contracted for every ep, since he arranged for time off every series to go and make a movie; and Cirroc Lofton appeared so little in S7 he simply can't have been contracted for every ep...
It's all about money - the main cast were effectively on-salary, since they got paid full whack for every episode whether they appeared or not*, whereas all the other actors got paid by the day. Ergo, focusing on two guest-stars for an entire episode looks like bad budgeting.
*Well, I think Colm Meaney may not have been contracted for every ep, since he arranged for time off every series to go and make a movie; and Cirroc Lofton appeared so little in S7 he simply can't have been contracted for every ep...
They appear - Ezri has a moderately significant supporting role, Sisko and Quark are in a scene or two, and they more or less all make at least a cameo. It's just that the plot - and, more importantly, the lion's share of the screentime - is entirely centred around Nog & VicYou know, I never even thought about the fact that it didn't use any of the main cast! And I've watched it about 3 times now...
Re: Its Only a Paper Moon - one of DS9's best, and almost didn't get m
I'm one of those DS9-lovers who's only seen this episode once, on initial airing, and I've never been motivated to give it a re-watch. IMO, Nog could be an interesting character - he was certainly written that way - but Eisenberg's performances are just so terrible. Every emotion is a caricature, blown hugely out of reality by his excessive physicality. There's not a hint of subtlety to anything he brings to Nog. Sorry, but I can't hop on the love-boat for this ep.
I'm one of those DS9-lovers who's only seen this episode once, on initial airing, and I've never been motivated to give it a re-watch. IMO, Nog could be an interesting character - he was certainly written that way - but Eisenberg's performances are just so terrible. Every emotion is a caricature, blown hugely out of reality by his excessive physicality. There's not a hint of subtlety to anything he brings to Nog. Sorry, but I can't hop on the love-boat for this ep.
Re: Its Only a Paper Moon - one of DS9's best, and almost didn't get m
I would say the one and only downside of the episode is Ezri's presence in it; her role in it was not moderately significant IMO, other than as a significant annoyance to viewer's enjoyment of the episode.
To me Ezri's appearance comes across like a lame attempt to shoehorn a main character into the episode solely for the sake of not making it too non-main-character-centric.
The episode would have been even better if Ezri did not appear in it at all.
I would say the one and only downside of the episode is Ezri's presence in it; her role in it was not moderately significant IMO, other than as a significant annoyance to viewer's enjoyment of the episode.
To me Ezri's appearance comes across like a lame attempt to shoehorn a main character into the episode solely for the sake of not making it too non-main-character-centric.
The episode would have been even better if Ezri did not appear in it at all.
Re: Its Only a Paper Moon - one of DS9's best, and almost didn't get m
You're not the only one who didn't especially care for this episode. I'm glad to see that it wasn't a waste though - clearly a lot of people got much more out of it than I did, which makes me feel better about the presence of the ep in S7.
Also, more Ezri makes everything better. Although I don't recall (it has been quite a while) this being one of her better eps.
You're not the only one who didn't especially care for this episode. I'm glad to see that it wasn't a waste though - clearly a lot of people got much more out of it than I did, which makes me feel better about the presence of the ep in S7.
Also, more Ezri makes everything better. Although I don't recall (it has been quite a while) this being one of her better eps.
Re: Its Only a Paper Moon - one of DS9's best, and almost didn't get m
Yep. While she doesn't do much here, she's got some nice moments--such as her clear frustration when Vic's good intentions end up getting in the way of her efforts to help Nog.
And...her last scene here, where she basically guilts Vic into doing the right thing is just GOLD. She's a master at manipulation--as any good psychologist should be.
Yep. While she doesn't do much here, she's got some nice moments--such as her clear frustration when Vic's good intentions end up getting in the way of her efforts to help Nog.
And...her last scene here, where she basically guilts Vic into doing the right thing is just GOLD. She's a master at manipulation--as any good psychologist should be.
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Re: Its Only a Paper Moon - one of DS9's best, and almost didn't get m
That's cool. I've never been able to get into 'The Visitor' even though I have watched it multiple times. Different strokes for different strokes.
That's cool. I've never been able to get into 'The Visitor' even though I have watched it multiple times. Different strokes for different strokes.
Re: Its Only a Paper Moon - one of DS9's best, and almost didn't get m
Oh I know that, geez - surely you know what I meant.
They appear - Ezri has a moderately significant supporting role, Sisko and Quark are in a scene or two, and they more or less all make at least a cameo. It's just that the plot - and, more importantly, the lion's share of the screentime - is entirely centred around Nog & VicYou know, I never even thought about the fact that it didn't use any of the main cast! And I've watched it about 3 times now...
Oh I know that, geez - surely you know what I meant.
Re: Its Only a Paper Moon - one of DS9's best, and almost didn't get m
A good episode for continuing 'the war actually has an impact' from the Seige of R***. That in itself is bold nevermind the use of supporting actors. As for Ezri detracting from the episode - if she hadn;t there would have been calls of well why wasn;t the counsellor involved as part of her job. I think she worked well into the story and still the focus was Nog and Vic.
A good episode for continuing 'the war actually has an impact' from the Seige of R***. That in itself is bold nevermind the use of supporting actors. As for Ezri detracting from the episode - if she hadn;t there would have been calls of well why wasn;t the counsellor involved as part of her job. I think she worked well into the story and still the focus was Nog and Vic.
Re: Its Only a Paper Moon - one of DS9's best, and almost didn't get m
Exactly.
Here's another thing. Allow me to use, as an analogy, the Disney animated version of The Jungle Book.
(I know--an odd analogy, but bear with me.)
You may remember the interactions between Baloo, Bagehera, and Mowgli. Mowgli acts out of frustration at (supposedly) not being understood by Bagheera, even though it's painfully clear to the audience that the panther is trying to help him, and save his neck.
Mowgli rebels, and encounters Baloo. The two become great friends, and Baloo effectively offers him a break from reality, without realizing it.
Now, watching it as kids, our sympathies are with Baloo and Mowgli. We often cannot understand that our parents are there to help us, and the restrictions they impose are for our own good. We love the fun, and almost despise Bagheera for trying to make it end.
But of course, Bagheera is in the right. And he eventually confronts Baloo, and convinces him that, if he truly cares for the kid, he should "Think about what's best for Mowgli, and not yourself!"
And in the end, even Mowgli realizes that Bagheera's actions were all for the better.
Now...why this admittidly odd analogy? Because it loosely parallels the trio of Ezri, Vic, and Nog.
Nog wants a break from realty. He's depressed, and spurns Ezri's efforts to help him return to duty.
Eventually, he makes his way to Vic's lounge, and befriends the holographic singer, and spends all his time in the holodeck, leving Vic's life with him.
Intially, Ezri is amused-yet-supportive, but when Nog effectively tells her to take a hike, she quickly discovers that this is not helping him--it's hurting him. And so, she confronts Vic, explaining that Nog can't simply live his life forever running from his problems. Convinced, Vic forces Nog to man up.
Now, the fun of the episode, and the enjoyment we feel with Vic's lounge, almost makes us wish this will go on forever. Like Bagheera, Ezri's a constant reminder that it shouldn't--and we begin to see her as an anoyance, maybe even hate her, for a time--because we don't want to admit it, any more than Nog does.
Yet...in the end, we learn with Vic that Ezri is right. And eventually, Nog does, too.
Exactly.
Here's another thing. Allow me to use, as an analogy, the Disney animated version of The Jungle Book.
(I know--an odd analogy, but bear with me.)
You may remember the interactions between Baloo, Bagehera, and Mowgli. Mowgli acts out of frustration at (supposedly) not being understood by Bagheera, even though it's painfully clear to the audience that the panther is trying to help him, and save his neck.
Mowgli rebels, and encounters Baloo. The two become great friends, and Baloo effectively offers him a break from reality, without realizing it.
Now, watching it as kids, our sympathies are with Baloo and Mowgli. We often cannot understand that our parents are there to help us, and the restrictions they impose are for our own good. We love the fun, and almost despise Bagheera for trying to make it end.
But of course, Bagheera is in the right. And he eventually confronts Baloo, and convinces him that, if he truly cares for the kid, he should "Think about what's best for Mowgli, and not yourself!"
And in the end, even Mowgli realizes that Bagheera's actions were all for the better.
Now...why this admittidly odd analogy? Because it loosely parallels the trio of Ezri, Vic, and Nog.
Nog wants a break from realty. He's depressed, and spurns Ezri's efforts to help him return to duty.
Eventually, he makes his way to Vic's lounge, and befriends the holographic singer, and spends all his time in the holodeck, leving Vic's life with him.
Intially, Ezri is amused-yet-supportive, but when Nog effectively tells her to take a hike, she quickly discovers that this is not helping him--it's hurting him. And so, she confronts Vic, explaining that Nog can't simply live his life forever running from his problems. Convinced, Vic forces Nog to man up.
Now, the fun of the episode, and the enjoyment we feel with Vic's lounge, almost makes us wish this will go on forever. Like Bagheera, Ezri's a constant reminder that it shouldn't--and we begin to see her as an anoyance, maybe even hate her, for a time--because we don't want to admit it, any more than Nog does.
Yet...in the end, we learn with Vic that Ezri is right. And eventually, Nog does, too.
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