State-run health care

[Kira's Mom]

We need universal health care and we need it now....for many reasons.

One of them being is.... I know of quite a few people who have objects embedded up their ass. They are in desperate need surgey but sadly insurance won't cover it. For this reason alone it needs to pass.

Excellent post.

And so is this:

However, when you rip me off to pay for crackheads or welfare mothers who can't keep their legs closed, that's when it becomes a problem. Comprende?

You really shouldn't say that kind of thing while quoting the New Testament in your sig.

 

[Hoser]

However, when you rip me off to pay for crackheads or welfare mothers who can't keep their legs closed, that's when it becomes a problem. Comprende?

You really shouldn't say that kind of thing while quoting the New Testament in your sig.....

I believe Jesus advocated helping people to help themselves.

...because Jesus never advocated that, and spent most of the NT trying to convince people to help others, even and especially those people that others felt were 'unworthy' of help.

 

[Miss Chicken]

However, when you rip me off to pay for crackheads or welfare mothers who can't keep their legs closed, that's when it becomes a problem. Comprende?

You really shouldn't say that kind of thing while quoting the New Testament in your sig.

Very well said, especially as the verse he quotes says

"Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God."

Not wanting to pay a few extra dollars a week so that everyone can have healthcare is being quite greedy in my opinion.

In Australia a person with a taxable income of $40,000 a year (not a total income, just a taxable income) would only pay about $600 a year in Medicare levy. That is about $12 a week.

 

[RyanKCR]

However, when you rip me off to pay for crackheads or welfare mothers who can't keep their legs closed, that's when it becomes a problem. Comprende?

You really shouldn't say that kind of thing while quoting the New Testament in your sig.....

I believe Jesus advocated helping people to help themselves.

...because Jesus never advocated that, and spent most of the NT trying to convince people to help others, even and especially those people that others felt were 'unworthy' of help.

Jesus very much did advocate that. He wants us individually, on our own, to help others. He didn't want us to give a little to some nameless, faceless, group to use some of what was given to possibly help others. He said do it yourself.

 

[Roger Wilco]

What goes on in other countries cannot be used as evidence of what would happen here so your arguement is baseless.

Why not?

 

[Miss Chicken]

Don't you receive more healthcare than you actually pay in insurnace premiums, Ryan?

If so, aren't many of those that pay into your insurance fund covering you though some nameless, faceless, group to use some of what was given to possibly help others?

How is putting your money into private health insurance any different than putting it into a publicly run health insurance plan?

 

[RyanKCR]

Don't you receive more healthcare than you actually pay in insurnace premiums, Ryan?

If so, aren't many of those that pay into your insurance fund covering you though some nameless, faceless, group to use some of what was given to possibly help others?

How is putting your money into private health insurance any different than putting it into a publicly run health insurance plan?

With insurance it is not a coerced helping of someone else who will not or cannot pay for anything. You will then bring up that there are people who would pay for insurance but can't because of pre-existing conditions. Well if I can do it then there must be a way others can do it. The only time (and I'm not saying that this is the only times) I've heard about pre-existing conditons causing you to be denied is life insurance and I have run into that. I've yet to hear, at least all the times I've gotten health insurance, that I will be denied because of my pre-existing condition.

Then there are those who don't have insurance because they can't pay and that is when the Bible and Christ is thrown at us why won't I help those as Christ demanded. But that is NOT what Christ advocated. He was big on personal responsibility not pass that off to some organization and then give a token gift or tax to that and say you did your part. He wants you to personally get involved and not just with money.

As I said real reform should include removing the limits so insurance can cross state lines. Per a doctor I know, there should be a universal claim form and diagnostics code on the form. On the state level there should be an option for incentives to insurance companies to cover high risk patients. Finally there should be major tort reform.

 

[Roger Wilco]

Well if I can do it then there must be a way others can do it.

But you are not doing it. You are depending on other people to pay for you.

Just as you want to make the American people beg for help instead of giving them what they need.

 

[RJDiogenes]

That is a matter of opinion. And yours is cruel and despicable.

Again, this is your opinion (and a disgusting one, in my opinion).

And while you may believe yourself to be a moral person, if you take what is not yours I would have to disagree with you.

Please, let's keep this conversation civil. No personal attacks against fellow Posters. Thank you.

 

[RJDiogenes]

Healthcare is not a right.

How is Healthcare less of a Right than the Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines, Roads, trash disposal, sewers, Police, Fire Department, National Guard, et cetera, et cetera?

A military to protect the people is a called for in the Constitution and is not socialist.

Promoting the general welfare is called for in the Constitution just as providing for the common defense is. Stop reading with just your right eye.

 

[ST-One]

With insurance it is not a coerced helping of someone else who will not or cannot pay for anything. You will then bring up that there are people who would pay for insurance but can't because of pre-existing conditions. Well if I can do it then there must be a way others can do it. The only time (and I'm not saying that this is the only times) I've heard about pre-existing conditons causing you to be denied is life insurance and I have run into that. I've yet to hear, at least all the times I've gotten health insurance, that I will be denied because of my pre-existing condition.

For most of your life you have been one form of public assistance or another concerning your health issues. (or so you told us)
You've had the good luck to get insurance when you started to work.

But, conveniently, you are leaving out of this discussion that you, now that you are not working, you youself do not have health insurance of your own. You rely solely on the employer-base health insurance of your wife. And to top that off, your wife isn't even paying for it; her employer (and in turn all her co-workers) is, out of his good will I guess, paying for it.

You've got lucky. Very much so.

But there are millions in your country who aren't as lucky.
They, for the good of the whole society, rely upon the help of the society as a whole, because your entirely market-driven system is crushing them.

But perhaps you and TLS, who (how did he put it?) 'doesn't feel the need to respond to a person such as [myself]', feel that your country is too stupid, too incompetent to accomplish what a great many nations managed: to ensure the wellbeing, 'the general wellfare' of their citizens.

I don't care if you call a afordable public health insurance 'socialism'; all governmental, tax-financed programmes are socialist anyway.

BTW: Just as a nice historical anecdote, Reichskanzler Bismarck instituted the first public health insurance in the late 19th century in Germany as a way to take away political and societal power from the Socialist.

 

[Pindar]

You've got lucky. Very much so.

No, not luck, he is one of Gods chosen.

If other people don't have things work out for them it's because god hates them and they are not worthy of life.

 

[Kira's Mom]

You've got lucky. Very much so.

No, not luck, he is one of Gods chosen.

If other people don't have things work out for them it's because god hates them and they are not worthy of life.

And that is just a cruel, hateful way to think. It makes me sad that there are Americans who think that way.

Well if I can do it then there must be a way others can do it.

But you are not doing it. You are depending on other people to pay for you.

Just as you want to make the American people beg for help instead of giving them what they need.

Quoted for the truth, again. Jeez, everyone else says what I want to before I get the chance!

 

[Pindar]

And that is just a cruel, hateful way to think. It makes me sad that there are Americans who think that way.

Just in case it's not clear I don't believe that, I was attempting to be facetious.

Nor am I American.

 

[TheLonelySquire]

However, when you rip me off to pay for crackheads or welfare mothers who can't keep their legs closed, that's when it becomes a problem. Comprende?

You really shouldn't say that kind of thing while quoting the New Testament in your sig.....

I believe Jesus advocated helping people to help themselves.

...because Jesus never advocated that, and spent most of the NT trying to convince people to help others, even and especially those people that others felt were 'unworthy' of help.

Did He advocate stealing from some to give to others or did He advocate each give from their own heart in their own way?

 

[TheLonelySquire]

However, when you rip me off to pay for crackheads or welfare mothers who can't keep their legs closed, that's when it becomes a problem. Comprende?

You really shouldn't say that kind of thing while quoting the New Testament in your sig.

Very well said, especially as the verse he quotes says

"Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God."

Not wanting to pay a few extra dollars a week so that everyone can have healthcare is being quite greedy in my opinion.

In Australia a person with a taxable income of $40,000 a year (not a total income, just a taxable income) would only pay about $600 a year in Medicare levy. That is about $12 a week.

Not wishing to pay into a government bureaucracy forcibly is not greed. It's smart.

 

[Squiggy]

Healthcare is not a right.

That is a matter of opinion. And yours is cruel and despicable.

If you are speaking of constitutional rights consider that the great thing about our constitution is that it is amendable. If the people want to make health care a right, we can do so -- just as was done with voting for women and black men, for example. I believe that our constitution is outdated in this specific regard, and could well be updated. I also think that this is the ONLY humane, decent, and civilized opinion.

Public health care as being ruinous for America is settled science.

Prove it. All the evidence I've seen shows the exact opposite.

Healthcare is NOT a right for able-bodied adults. Access to affordable healthcare should be. However, when you rip me off to pay for crackheads or welfare mothers who can't keep their legs closed, that's when it becomes a problem. Comprende?

Sort of like how my taxes are used to pay for the Army which defends those same crackheads or welfare mothers who can't keep their legs closed from evil hordes of Huns? THE OUTRAGE!

 

[TheLonelySquire]

That is a matter of opinion. And yours is cruel and despicable.

If you are speaking of constitutional rights consider that the great thing about our constitution is that it is amendable. If the people want to make health care a right, we can do so -- just as was done with voting for women and black men, for example. I believe that our constitution is outdated in this specific regard, and could well be updated. I also think that this is the ONLY humane, decent, and civilized opinion.

Prove it. All the evidence I've seen shows the exact opposite.

Healthcare is NOT a right for able-bodied adults. Access to affordable healthcare should be. However, when you rip me off to pay for crackheads or welfare mothers who can't keep their legs closed, that's when it becomes a problem. Comprende?

Sort of like how my taxes are used to pay for the Army which defends those same crackheads or welfare mothers who can't keep their legs closed from evil hordes of Huns? THE OUTRAGE!

Agreed! They should enlist them in the military to teach them some discipline!

 

[ST-One]

You really shouldn't say that kind of thing while quoting the New Testament in your sig.

Very well said, especially as the verse he quotes says

"Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God."

Not wanting to pay a few extra dollars a week so that everyone can have healthcare is being quite greedy in my opinion.

In Australia a person with a taxable income of $40,000 a year (not a total income, just a taxable income) would only pay about $600 a year in Medicare levy. That is about $12 a week.

Not wishing to pay into a government bureaucracy forcibly is not greed. It's smart.

So, you withhold all the tax-money you owe to the government?

 

[thestrangequark]

That is a matter of opinion. And yours is cruel and despicable.

Again, this is your opinion (and a disgusting one, in my opinion).

And while you may believe yourself to be a moral person, if you take what is not yours I would have to disagree with you.

Please, let's keep this conversation civil. No personal attacks against fellow Posters. Thank you.

This last quote isn't mine, just to be clear.