An odd omission

[gastrof]

Does anyone wonder at the fact the Destiny, while having one or two shuttles, had no puddle jumpers on board?

Makes me wonder how the timing all works out with regards to the ship being launched, and the arrival of Atlantis in Pegasus and the apparent creating of a stargate system there.

Guess we should place Destiny's launch LONG before the departure of Atlantis from Earth?

 

[TemporalFlux]

Well, I noticed that the starlog of the Destiny showed that it's first stop after the Milky Way was the Pegasus galaxy. I don't know why it would have gone there if the Ancients had already been, so I would wager that the Destiny and its lead ships seeded the Pegasus galaxy before the Ancients ever went there.

Under that logic, the Destiny would have been launched before the Ancients built Atlantis and went to Pegasus. This time line would explain why the Destiny gate is a kind of hybrid of the Milky Way gate and the Atlantis gate, and it would firmly place Atlantis as the height of Ancient technology. Apparently, the Ancients decided to upgrade the gate further once in Pegasus (giving us the most advanced looking gate), but the Wraith devastation apparently forced them to abandon that upgrade project before it could be implemented elsewhere.

 

[Brent]

Does anyone wonder at the fact the Destiny, while having one or two shuttles, had no puddle jumpers on board?

Makes me wonder how the timing all works out with regards to the ship being launched, and the arrival of Atlantis in Pegasus and the apparent creating of a stargate system there.

Guess we should place Destiny's launch LONG before the departure of Atlantis from Earth?

I thought this was well known, they even said it in the premier, at least hundreds of thousands of years old. They even showed it being launched from Earth in the star map in the first episode. That puts it during the time the Ancients lived in the Milky Way galaxy, long before they went to the Pegasus galaxy. Atlantis had only been lost 10,000 years, the Destiny has been lost hundreds of thousands of years, if not more.

Originally descriptions of the series placed the Destiny at being millions of years old. So this was wayyyy before the Ancients left the Milky Way. In fact, the gate it uses pre-dates the Milky Way gates, hence the steampunk'ness of the steam being released after each use, think of it like the first version of the gates, with the Milky Way being second version, and Pegasus being third version.

The Destiny was probably launched not too long after the Ancients came to Earth from their home galaxy.

 

[Brent]

Well, I noticed that the starlog of the Destiny showed that it's first stop after the Milky Way was the Pegasus galaxy. I don't know why it would have gone there if the Ancients had already been, so I would wager that the Destiny and its lead ships seeded the Pegasus galaxy before the Ancients ever went there.

Under that logic, the Destiny would have been launched before the Ancients built Atlantis and went to Pegasus.

That would not make sense because the gates are different, unless the Ancients in their later years, replaced them all with newer versions when they settled the Pegasus galaxy, which I guess is possible.

 

[TemporalFlux]

That would not make sense because the gates are different, unless the Ancients in their later years, replaced them all with newer versions when they settled the Pegasus galaxy, which I guess is possible.

Sure it's possible, and really the only explanation in my opinion. Apparently, the Ancients were having to go around to set up DHDs on these planets anyway (I noticed no DHD on this first world the Destiny crew visited); so they could implement gate improvements while setting up the DHD.

As for why there's no DHD at initial installation? Well, my first guess would be a logistics problem. However, a no DHD process would have also allowed the Ancients to keep that gate somewhat cut off until the world could be investigated and catalogued; and with no DHD, most if not all natives would be prohibited from dialing out and contaminating the rest of the network before study. The Destiny basically has moderator status, and all of these worlds would be in the approval queque until their DHD account is activated.

 

[gastrof]

I noticed Friday night there wasn't a DHD on desert world. (Sorry TF... maybe a leftover from Sliders.)

Finally, tho', a handheld dialing device. Someone's using that Asgard tech to its fullest.

We already saw the new base for the communication stones. (Simple metal box with lighted surface, and the stones work with it just as they did with the other device that got thrown into the gate splash to save Daniel and Vala.)

The portable dialing device looks a little big, but they're getting there.

I wonder how many other improvements the Destiny crew have with them that we'll find out about (or that we'll see on Earth) as time goes on.

 

[T J]

I wonder why the Ancients forgot about the Destiny? Or perhaps they didn't forget about it, they just decided they didn't like the idea in the long term. What I want to know is who shot it all up and why?

 

[The Wormhole]

Finally, tho', a handheld dialing device. Someone's using that Asgard tech to its fullest.

Actually, I was under the impression that this particular portable dialer was actually developed by the Ancients. Makes sense they would have one.

 

[cultcross]

Finally, tho', a handheld dialing device. Someone's using that Asgard tech to its fullest.

Actually, I was under the impression that this particular portable dialer was actually developed by the Ancients. Makes sense they would have one.

It does make sense, but there again the more 'modern' Milky Way gates and Pegasus gates had massive, permanent DHDs - it would seem odd that more primitive gates would have portable hand-held DHDs. Seems a bit of a technological regression. I assumed, as gastrof did, that the remote was Asgard design.

Having said that, perhaps a big permanent DHD isn't a regression of technology at all, and merely a way of making them more user-friendly. Perhaps these older gates really weren't intended for mass civilian transport day-to-day like the Milky Way ones were, and so they never really thought to design a quick-and-dirty dialling system. After all, the way the Destiny and its predecessor ship are supposed to work, they really are the 'road builders' that Daniel originally described the Ancients as. Perhaps only later the gate concept was redesigned as a mass transit system.

Of course, we might be over-speculating, we've only seen one gate off-world so far, maybe others have DHDs.

 

[The Librarian]

Does anyone wonder at the fact the Destiny, while having one or two shuttles, had no puddle jumpers on board?

Makes me wonder how the timing all works out with regards to the ship being launched, and the arrival of Atlantis in Pegasus and the apparent creating of a stargate system there.

Guess we should place Destiny's launch LONG before the departure of Atlantis from Earth?

I thought this was well known, they even said it in the premier, at least hundreds of thousands of years old. They even showed it being launched from Earth in the star map in the first episode. That puts it during the time the Ancients lived in the Milky Way galaxy, long before they went to the Pegasus galaxy. Atlantis had only been lost 10,000 years, the Destiny has been lost hundreds of thousands of years, if not more.

Originally descriptions of the series placed the Destiny at being millions of years old. So this was wayyyy before the Ancients left the Milky Way. In fact, the gate it uses pre-dates the Milky Way gates, hence the steampunk'ness of the steam being released after each use, think of it like the first version of the gates, with the Milky Way being second version, and Pegasus being third version.

The Destiny was probably launched not too long after the Ancients came to Earth from their home galaxy.

It has to be millions of years old, because Atlantis left Earth around 4-5 million years ago. The original DHD in Antarctica was data at around 50 million years old, although Carter could have been wrong about that.

 

[Brent]

I noticed Friday night there wasn't a DHD on desert world. (Sorry TF... maybe a leftover from Sliders.)

Finally, tho', a handheld dialing device. Someone's using that Asgard tech to its fullest.

The dialing device is obviously from the Destiny. It has the same design as the rest of the consoles on the Destiny. The Ancients would have used that to dial back to the ship with. It also controls the Kino's and acts as a video relay for the Kino's.

 

[arch101]

The refugees may simply not have discovered a jumper bay yet. They only occupy a very small part of a very large vessel. I imagine they will stumble across all kinds of things on the ship as the series progresses.

 

[BenRoethig]

Finally, tho', a handheld dialing device. Someone's using that Asgard tech to its fullest.

Actually, I was under the impression that this particular portable dialer was actually developed by the Ancients. Makes sense they would have one.

It does make sense, but there again the more 'modern' Milky Way gates and Pegasus gates had massive, permanent DHDs - it would seem odd that more primitive gates would have portable hand-held DHDs. Seems a bit of a technological regression. I assumed, as gastrof did, that the remote was Asgard design.

Having said that, perhaps a big permanent DHD isn't a regression of technology at all, and merely a way of making them more user-friendly. Perhaps these older gates really weren't intended for mass civilian transport day-to-day like the Milky Way ones were, and so they never really thought to design a quick-and-dirty dialling system. After all, the way the Destiny and its predecessor ship are supposed to work, they really are the 'road builders' that Daniel originally described the Ancients as. Perhaps only later the gate concept was redesigned as a mass transit system.

Of course, we might be over-speculating, we've only seen one gate off-world so far, maybe others have DHDs.

That does make a lot of sense. The first gates were meant only for the ancients and were probably under military ownership. The later ones were designed for use for civilians and more primitives people.

 

[Meredith]

The gate system on the destiny looks a heck of a lot older than either the gate system in the MW and Pegasus. I think it was gate revision 1.0, No DHD because the DHD is built into the base of the gate that needs to actually "spin" the whole gate. The remote just acts like a remote with the base housing the DHD computer. Not sure if you can manually dial this sorts gate.... They symbols on the gate look more like the ancient language than star constellations....

Gate revision 2.0 is the MW gate, they repalced the whole gate spinning with just an ring in the gate that spins, plus definate manual dialing is possible. Gate is possibly more robust as the base and DHD take up less space that the 1.0 gate. Gate doesn't need to spin up to accept a wormhole.

Gate revision 3.0 is the Pegasus Gate system. It doesn't need to spin at all and is more "Solid state" plus the gate system was designed with "Space Gates and Puddle Jumpers" in mind. Cannot be manually dialed, but the gate is more versatile as you can use a gate craft "puddle jumper" with it.


Now I would think that these gates are the one that are easy to build and deposit on worlds. One piece setups that can be "beamed' or deposited automatically. I can imagin this was one of the first projects the ancients did when they settled in the MW was to spread out and colonize the rest of the universe. They built a massive automated ship or ships that would dump gates in galaxies and move on to the next one. We know they initially settled the Pegasus Galaxy this way, who knows there may be living breathing non-"ass-ended" ancients living three galaxies down wind of Pegasus that have no idea that Pegasus was a crap sack galaxy.

Each of these galaxies settled by the ancients could have their own "style" of gate system based off of the 1.0 gates......

 

[cultcross]

The gate system on the destiny looks a heck of a lot older than either the gate system in the MW and Pegasus. I think it was gate revision 1.0, No DHD because the DHD is built into the base of the gate that needs to actually "spin" the whole gate. The remote just acts like a remote with the base housing the DHD computer. Not sure if you can manually dial this sorts gate.... They symbols on the gate look more like the ancient language than star constellations....

Gate revision 2.0 is the MW gate, they repalced the whole gate spinning with just an ring in the gate that spins, plus definate manual dialing is possible. Gate is possibly more robust as the base and DHD take up less space that the 1.0 gate. Gate doesn't need to spin up to accept a wormhole.

Gate revision 3.0 is the Pegasus Gate system. It doesn't need to spin at all and is more "Solid state" plus the gate system was designed with "Space Gates and Puddle Jumpers" in mind. Cannot be manually dialed, but the gate is more versatile as you can use a gate craft "puddle jumper" with it.


Now I would think that these gates are the one that are easy to build and deposit on worlds. One piece setups that can be "beamed' or deposited automatically. I can imagin this was one of the first projects the ancients did when they settled in the MW was to spread out and colonize the rest of the universe. They built a massive automated ship or ships that would dump gates in galaxies and move on to the next one. We know they initially settled the Pegasus Galaxy this way, who knows there may be living breathing non-"ass-ended" ancients living three galaxies down wind of Pegasus that have no idea that Pegasus was a crap sack galaxy.

Each of these galaxies settled by the ancients could have their own "style" of gate system based off of the 1.0 gates......

Very good summary, that's pretty much what I was getting at; thsi is how I envision the tech progression.

 

[TemporalFlux]

The gate system on the destiny looks a heck of a lot older than either the gate system in the MW and Pegasus.

I think the problem I have with that thought is that the MW gate has a spinning dial with the symbols physically carved into a metal ring. It's a clear analog to a rotary phone; nothing but a spinning part and print.

This new SGU gate has a digital component; the symbols light up. That's not quite Atlantis gate, but it's a step more than just carving symbols into metal. I mean, would the Ancients really regress to simple carving after developing a lenticular style light up symbol system? Is that what we did with the rotary phone vs. touch tone?

Not sure if you can manually dial this sorts gate.... They symbols on the gate look more like the ancient language than star constellations...

Which again to me appears like an advancement. It's similar to plotting things with a map versus using longitude and latitude coordinates. Numerical (or alphanumeric) coordinates are more accurate; a map is more rough.

 

[SmoothieX]

I don't see a point for having jumpers on the ship. The nature of the Destiny's mission makes them irrelevant, as it seeds habitable planets with stargates, then hops back into FTL and moves on. I don't know what you'd need jumpers for. You can just gate to a planet for a while and then go back to the ship.

 

[Snaploud]

I don't see a point for having jumpers on the ship. The nature of the Destiny's mission makes them irrelevant, as it seeds habitable planets with stargates, then hops back into FTL and moves on. I don't know what you'd need jumpers for. You can just gate to a planet for a while and then go back to the ship.

Actually, the seeding happens prior to the Destiny ever showing up. As for the need for jumpers: if you're only planning on being within gate-distance of a planet for six hours...Well, it's a bit hard to do a six hour survey of a planet on-foot...

 

[Brent]

Jumpers were invented later, during their stint in the Pegasus galaxy, the Destiny would not have them cause they hadn't been invented yet, simple really.

That isn't to say that the Ancients wouldn't have had other kind of vehicles to use for scouting planets. But the jumpers we saw in Atlantis, no.

 

[The Wormhole]

Jumpers were invented later, during their stint in the Pegasus galaxy,

If we really want to get anal about this, the Ancients developed Jumpers just before they left Earth. We see a Jumper flying through Antarctica towards Atlantis in the opening scene of Rising, just before the city takes off.