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where HEROES went wrong...

Now the strange thing is? I like Heroes. I actually thought this season's first two episodes were better than last year's first two..I like the carnie people, and the strange girl with clair...

But where this show went wrong? A couple places...

First off? Aside from a few background characters, no one really dies on this show. And because we know that none of the major character never dies, all this stuff is just clutter. They should have signed them to two year contracts at a time and killed some of them off..

second? I know 24 and Lost have formulas, but Heroe's is far to obvious. Each year starts off with them all scattered to the wind, and some of them (major characters) don't have their powers, or forgot they had them..or..well..some way they just dont have their powers...Then it all gets righted towards the end and then we have the big showdown..

I dont think this show will be renewed next year, based on what i am 'hearing'. If it doesn't, I hope they let them finish it off properly...



Rob
 
Er, they killed Nathan. I mean, for good. Having Sylar impersonate him isn't really the same as having Nate around. I'm glad they are addressing that and not just saying "this really is Nathan, don't worry, Sylar is gone!"

Their original idea was to have a new cast every season, or at least rotate people in and out, kinda like they do with Law & Order. Problem is, that show was always designed to be character-proof, and without characters, Heroes is nothing. I mean, really, who here is watching it for the story anymore? I just wanna see what nonsense they get into this year.

They just don't know how to do a climax properly, and they waste time on pointless stories that go nowhere. Too much filler.

This season has suffered from it to a lesser extent than previous ones, but we still have it: witness the "Dial-A-Hero" nonsense from the premiere.

But what's NBC gonna replace it with? Another L&O spinoff? :p I suspect the show will get to finish its 20-episode season and that will be that. I'd be surprised if it got another season at this point.
 
I gave up after seeing the first two seasons at about episode 5or6 last year.
HEROES jumped the shark early.
I do watch a show for its story and growth, something this show should have. Hiro was as immature and unlearned in S3 as he was in S1. Other characters showed similar no growth. The repetative formula also was bad. It reminds me of how Venom was a cool character until Marvel saturated the character and had successive 6ish minis for 3-4yrs. HEROES is similar in that the concept is watered down because of the same basic plot. Based on the OP S4 isn't deviating much from what I saw.

The Big Bang Theory has had more character development in its 3yrs than HEROES has and that is sad.
 
The lack of character growth is definitely the primary flaw of the show, but it was hardly the only one. Starting with the Season One finale, it became clear the showrunners had caught a tiger by the tail but had no idea what to do with it, and each time they made a mistkae, they learned the wrong lessons from it. They have perked up somewhat recently, but so many people have already abandoned the show, it's too little too late.
 
I'm pretty sure that the show is only scheduled for like 13 episodes this year.

The number right now is 18 but it could go up to 20 episodes. This is probably the last season on NBC but Universal might want to continue the show in some way because it has excellent DVD sales
 
The lack of character growth is definitely the primary flaw of the show, but it was hardly the only one. Starting with the Season One finale, it became clear the showrunners had caught a tiger by the tail but had no idea what to do with it, and each time they made a mistkae, they learned the wrong lessons from it. They have perked up somewhat recently, but so many people have already abandoned the show, it's too little too late.

From what I understand, the original idea for the show had each volume be about a different set of characters, with maybe one or two crossovers between them. When the showrunners realized how much people liked the characters from season 1, they ditched the plan and decided to keep the same set.

If they had actually figured out a way to develop from there logically then there wouldn't have been a problem. But I think they were all pretty much designed to work around the season 1 plot and they couldn't figure out anything else to do with them.
 
I saw and liked the first season. It jumped the shark in season 2, with teen romance and bad Irish accents. I quite pretty early on that season, and have not been back.
 
I'm pretty sure that the show is only scheduled for like 13 episodes this year.

The number right now is 18 but it could go up to 20 episodes. This is probably the last season on NBC but Universal might want to continue the show in some way because it has excellent DVD sales

I actually think it's 19--definitely an odd number short of a normal network full season.

Where Heroes went wrong.

NO. CHARACTER. GROWTH.

Agreed... at the end of the day, the plots kept getting sillier and the characters would change inexplicably and then reset to where they started in just as baffling a manner. The plot was constantly driving the characters rather than the other way around, and after a while it got frustrating. It takes me a long time to give up on a show I'm invested in, but after "Villains" I couldn't bring myself to be interested in "Fugitives." I watched a few episodes anyway and found it just as predictable and unimaginative as I'd feared it would be. I want to check out the first few eps of this season, and might if I have time to get around to it, but there's so many more interesting and exciting shows on right now, it's hard to find the time.

I loved this show first season, and even liked second season for the most part. But it's just gone way downhill, which is a shame, because it had so much potential.
 
It really, really did have potential. I agree. Perhaps if the writers hadn't been so in love with Claire and Hiro.....maybe things would have been different.
 
This is such a mammoth topic, I'll try to keep it at the very highest level of detail or I'll probably go insane trying to describe the near-infinite ways in which this show has screwed up.

1. Not building the story around core character arcs. Not even recognizing the core character arcs that would serve as great things to build a story around. Peter is Luke Skywalker. Nathan is the corrupt soul trying to get clean. Matt is the nice guy struggling with very not-nice powers. Mohinder is the noble scientist who is undone by his scientific curiosity. Noah is the protective father undone by his overwhelming love for his daughter.

Note that those last two don't require superpowers. This is a story about people, not superheroes, and there is nothing whatsoever wrong with Mohinder staying "mortal."

The writers needed to assess their characters after S1 and latch onto the ones with powerful character arcs that could propel a story. The other characters are killed off or relagated to secondary status. Nikki - no idea what she's good for. Kill. Claire - secondary to Noah's story since she's not interesting in her own right. Keep, as an adjunct to other characters' stories (not just Noah; she also fits well with Peter's and Nathan's stories.) Hiro - redundant with Peter's role but without the intrinsic connections to the other characters. Kill.

A few characters could have been added, such as Micah. The precocious-but-wounded orphan struggling to survive and grow up in adverse circumstances is a very durable arc and would fit well into the overall mix. But that gives us six major characters to focus on, and that is more than enough for any show. Concentrate on those, and be very careful with adding more to the mix. There is more than enough on the writers' plate.

2. No overall story arc. The individual character arcs should be corralled together to create a single arc along a theme. The obvious overarching theme is one that dates back to ancient Greek myth. A mortal is given the power of the gods, but being mortal, cannot wisely control the power and is destroyed by it (unless he manages to divest himself from the power in time).

That's the Heroes theme. These characters have one of three fates: destruction; permanent return to mortal status by their powers being taken away; or (maybe in one instance, and only after the greatest trials) transmogrification through wisdom into a godlike character capable of coming to terms with their power.

The character arcs will lead to one of these destinations and that's the whole story of the whole show over all the seasons. Simple, but elemental enough to provide years' worth of stories. Why did they have to mess it all up with irrelevancies and nonsense?

3. Sylar - argh. Kring and the audience were so dazzled by Zachary Quinto that nobody stopped to think about Sylar. He's a no-win character. If he's bad, he's repetitive and boring. If he's good, he's wimpy and boring.

I think this has got to be the biggest gulf I've ever seen between the caliber of the writing for a character (botched from the start - his motive was weak and whiny and needed to be rethought before the cameras ever started rolling) and the acting (so wonderful that, terribly, the botched character was neither killed nor un-botched).

I'm not sure if there was ever a way to salvage Sylar. Maybe just postpone the inevitable via an arc that has him evil in S1; play around with redemption in S2; and fall into the pit of even greater evil in S3, with his permanent demise at the end of the season. He was never a character concept that had a long life in him.

From what I understand, the original idea for the show had each volume be about a different set of characters,
If there is therefore to be no character arcs, that just makes it all the more crucial that the series have an overarching theme. Here is the tragedy of mortals aping the powers of gods in S1...and S2...and in S3, it's the same shit all over again! These idiots never learn. I guess that could have worked. But when did this show ever have a plot arc and coherent theme? What is this show about?!?
 
And all of this leads to the biggest problem of this show - it's a boring nonsense. I stopped watching after 8 or so episodes of the third season after liking the first season (except the season finale) and sort of liking the second ...
 
Do any of you people read comic books at all? Constant resets of the characters, no one dies, powers constantly changing, introduction of useless and/or horrible characters no one likes, at the end of every major story arc everything goes back to the beginning. I have been reading this for 35 years. To me this is as it should be. Superhero stories never make good sense take even a great work like the Watchmen and make it into a four season tv show and you will run into the same problems. Sit back and enjoy that issue/episode and remember what it is you are watching here.
 
This is one of the shows most undeserving of 4 seasons I have seen. It lost the plot early in S2 and should have been put down then.

I can't even bring myself to watch S4 the last one was so horrible, and I hardly ever give up on a show.
 
I really think they need to stop fooling around and start trying to truly save the world.

Start with having a group of them drop Osama Bin Laden off in front of the White House and take it from there, with the President staring in astonishment as they zoom off.

Show them truly affecting the world (like Watchmen did).
 
Do any of you people read comic books at all? Constant resets of the characters, no one dies, powers constantly changing, introduction of useless and/or horrible characters no one likes, at the end of every major story arc everything goes back to the beginning. I have been reading this for 35 years. To me this is as it should be. Superhero stories never make good sense take even a great work like the Watchmen and make it into a four season tv show and you will run into the same problems. Sit back and enjoy that issue/episode and remember what it is you are watching here.

If they want to make comic books, they can go make comic books. As it is right now, they are making a subpar TV show.

And the things you mentioned are long-standing problems in the world of comic books. They aren't exactly things to be aspired to.

Heroes really has no excuse for being so half-assed. They have a decent cast, a pretty good budget (as far as I can tell), and decades' worth superhero mythos to draw inspiration from.

There's no excuse for it being such a crappy show. I loved the first season, thought the second season was pretty good (if truncated), and then it just started going all over the place, like no one in the writers' room was in control of the situation and everyone just does whatever they want.
 
In retrospect, given how little respect this show receives, part of me thinks it should never have been attempted. At least not as a weekly series.

Audiences are too used to superheroes being people in tights who run around saving the world every week and cracking wisecracks. And god help us if any of them have any personal problems outside of fighting crime.

Heroes was a good concept that should have been restricted to a movie or a mini-series. Aside from the difficulty of maintaining an arc-heavy series in an anti-arc environment, they should have known that the demographic they were aiming for has, on the whole, certain demands on superhero series that the concept of Heroes itself could not hope to achieve, without violating its own internal logic.

Put another way. Back near the end of Season 1, Clare Bennet makes a joking remark about whether she should get herself a superhero costume. I think the show would probably have been maintained its popularity if she and the others had done just that.

Alex
 
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